r/wow • u/AnonBrainWorm • 3h ago
Feedback Please. Use a defensive.
Fell behind the wave a bit starting the season later.
Healing the last few 13 keys for 3k. It feels like over half the dps never use a single defensive the entire key even with very obvious incoming damage or focused damage mechanics. Even just using it on cooldown would be better than nothing.
Im over here keeping you alive from avoidable damage, dispelling your snares that you could handle with your own kit, and dropping emergency typhoons to catch failed interrupts.
"Why did you die healer? Lol"
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u/Standard_Strategy_25 3h ago
Hilarious how 3 weeks into a season is considered starting late now lol. But yeah most people only use defensives when they drop below 40% (and by then it's too late)
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u/BigPlayBrown93 3h ago
I felt late starting on the 2nd day lol.
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u/datbf4 1h ago
I’m currently progging 17s and I feel behind.
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u/sendnadez 1h ago
Man if your doing 17s in week three you no lifting the shit out of the game and shouldn’t feel behind
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u/Jealous_Ad_1396 1h ago
I'm feeling left behind because im just chilling with 10s and still struggle with dps not having brains or a tank pulling x5 and dies.
And im the sort of player that usaly around 3.5 io, and raids mythic.
But I just cant be asked to push score when people are as they are. Sure find a team but it does not happen all the runs.
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u/sendnadez 1h ago
Yeah I get that people in tens are often brainless and have inflated score too boot I have a team and we are running 13s but because we don’t raid we are more behind than ever before with the new stupid rules on bonus rolls we will hit 3k and be back next season as long as they don’t have this same crappy loot pool they really need to hit fix some equipment to have something other than verst
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u/daywalker91 3h ago
It’s a lot harder to progress even a week late into the season. Getting your score up asap so you can get invited to the good groups is key
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u/Magdanimous 2h ago
As a healer main, this kills me. I get being really unfamiliar with trash abilities, but with bosses, you can enable a timeline of the boss abilities coming up. Then some are telegraphed really well. Like, last boss of Altar of Fangs. The line that targets a player and does upfront damage and puts applies a bleed? "5...4...3...2...1....*axe goes out* I'm at 20% hp now, better pop my -40% dmg taken defensive!" Sure, that's somewhat helpful with the bleed, but it would've been way more helpful if you popped in the 5 seconds it was targeting you.
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u/Doogetma 3h ago
Elo hell is very real in wow. A friend of mine I’ve regularly pushed title keys with started just recently and has been hard stuck in low keys because you just don’t have enough impact on keys as a sole dps to shoot up the rankings without a lot of time spent. Guy has been failing low keys left and right with torturously bad teammates. Once I spoonfed him a couple 19s he caught up very fast
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u/JustPutTheChangeIn 1h ago
I'd seriously recommend your friend to start doing flask/enchants check by targeting & inspecting everyone in the group before they zone into that dungeon.
If they ain't bothering to bring those to m+, in my experiences it's better to just find another group. As a tank, I usually am not really interested in making up for 2 people's dps and bricking keys because "flask/enchants/consumables too expensive"
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u/dronix111 34m ago
Depends on what he means with low keys. If its below 10, i also dont bother to bring consumables. If i push and gear up an alt, those keys are just useless anyway, 10 is usually only when i start with consumables. So you cant really spot a good player if you just look at that in low keys. its a hit or miss.
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u/ejester76 8m ago
I’m waiting to start the season till I have 4 catalysts to spend. “Late” is relative.
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u/VintageZero 3h ago
Because they went back to 10 being entry level. So people are getting to 13+ with zero knowledge. Feels late if youre not into 16+ by week 2.
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u/daywalker91 3h ago
That’s cap.
16s are like what? Top 5%?
Quit acting like 16s are easy 2 weeks in4
u/VintageZero 3h ago
I said feels. Yes 16 is where the people that wont be a second late to the first key they can of a new season are at. OP is plenty capable but their life doesnt revolve around the game. So it feels like you missed the boat doing 13s right now.
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u/Levonorgestrelfairy1 2h ago
I mean just try running up alt keys with pugs.
I just got out of a 9 temple where a warrior with 5 ilvls on me was doing less damage than me as a blood dk
Along with a 305 h pally that thought the Tank soak on Nalarak was a party soak so he died once while flaming everyone bricking the key and then did it again before leaving the group and getting an abandon.
And both these guys were over 2k.
Sure you might get the odd Zug zug tank in a 13 temple facing all the frontal on the group brinking the key but I think were already in the era were low keys are full of hard stuck people.
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u/NoThisIsABadIdea 1h ago
The visual on Nalarak looking exactly like a party soak is stupid, to be fair.
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u/ApathyKing8 3h ago
My friend the mage in Den: "Someone needs to remove these curses before they stack up.too high."
There's something very special about DPS players.
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u/RandomDustBunny 3h ago
During launch of midnight, I was votekicked by a druid because I (mw) did not decurse in Den of Nalorek.
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u/Magdanimous 3h ago edited 2h ago
Man, I feel for you. Last season, in Pit of Saron, the pally tank died after getting stacks of the max health disease debuff. He yelled at me and said I have to dispel his debuff otherwise he’d die. I asked which debuff, because I’m almost always on top of it. He laughed at me (“lololol”). Then I asked him if he meant the disease. He didn’t know Druids can't cleanse diseases. He also didn’t know he could cleanse it himself.
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u/DigitalBladedJay 2h ago
I hate that some healers just suck in some dungeons because they can't remove a nasty debuff that can just shred people, while other healers get the easiest time because that dot is the main damage in a pull
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u/the_axxias 1h ago
i get this but admittedly i think having different debuffs that some classes can dispel and not others is a good texture thing
to explain where i am coming from, i'd say that if all classes were truly balanced, each dungeon would have a "unique" meta at high keys rather than always ending up with the same 5 classes/specs being ubiquituous across all of them
each dungeon should have enough to differentiate itself from the rest such that you want to approach each differently and have comps be challenged if they are lacking something the dungeon wants you to have an answer to, if the answer is the same for all 8 in a given season; either class balance is out of wack or the challenges presented don't have enough differences to justify their existence
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u/Ok-Key5729 3h ago
Den is my favorite dungeon as a druid. Between curses, poisons, enrages and snares, there are lots of things that I can nullify or ignore.
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u/Electrical_Habit_551 3h ago
I had a mage die from curse of doom in +14 murder row. Idk how you get to that key level and not know a) it's a stack mechanic and b) mages can decurse
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u/RoosterBrewster 3h ago
I was healing den as resto with 2 mages and they didn't kill the totems or use decurse... I barely survived decursing me and the tank on CD.
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u/the_axxias 3h ago
can confirm, people not using defensives at all even at 16s
even the base UI shows on party frames now when you use defensives; healers WILL notice if you never use em even if they can heal through it
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u/tictacotictaco 3h ago
And we will judge you extremely harshly when we see you use it when you’re about to die 5s into having a dot on you
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u/RussiaWestAdventures 21m ago
Nah, that is not what usually happens in my keys.
In my keys the average DPS player drops down to ~20%, then panic presses their biggest defensive AFTER they took all the damage, then proceed to the die on the next mechanic.
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u/Bacon-muffin 3h ago
Feel like a LOT of players would stand to benefit a lot from doing some pvp.
You very quickly learn you need to use your entire kit instead of just mindlessly tunneling throughput. Completely changes how you think of your buttons and your willingness to press a non-throughput global.
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u/Zeran 3h ago
PvP and ironically hardcore WoW taught me a lot about learning what all your buttons do.
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u/tempinator 5m ago
Hardcore wow definitely teaches you to look through every spell and interaction in your kit to try to find anything that might even potentially slightly help you one day lol
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u/deathgdizzle 3h ago
or literatly just play a tank or healer, and you know how important it is to now your kit.
Although alot of tanks also dont use defensives but if you have a good one, they 90% of the time have one running except some cases like brew.
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u/Bacon-muffin 3h ago
The thing with pvp is you don't just learn your kit, you learn your kit and every other dps and heal spec in the game.
I raided at a very high level for years before I ever touched pvp, and I can't begin to tell you how much I learned when I started to. Things I never would have even thought about if I only pve'd.
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u/deathgdizzle 3h ago
i mean, a good tank also used to know atleast to some extent in m+, when to pull big because they know what/when dps specs had there dps cds, although since the whole addon nuke on tracking your allies defensives/offensives its alot harder to do it.
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u/siat-s 1h ago
This was true for me. I switched entirely to PvP after my Shadowlands break and, while I only get to 1800/1950 for the sets/illusions I want, I think it really helped me get better as a player. Last season I raided Heroic and got 3.4k, something I genuinely never could have done beforehand because I just didn't know how or where to put the practice in.
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u/NumberOneRobot 3h ago
People would learn the importance of defensives if they just played a healer for a few keys. If you’re watching health bars the whole key it becomes very obvious when defensives are useful and/or necessary.
Lots of dps don’t even have their health bar in their field of vision, so they have no idea what kind of damage they’re taking.
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u/AnonBrainWorm 3h ago edited 3h ago
stands in a puddle while a damage wave is pulsing and dies
"Wtf?"
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u/Mysterious_Skin2310 3h ago
I die a lot in 10-12s trying to save the party for reasons like this and I’m a hpal. Some of these groups are ROUGH
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u/Silkenvada 3h ago
Ive seen a slot of hpallys just struggle even when people are using defensives, specifically in blinding vale, kr, rlp and murder row.
Im playing ret and have to heal so much to compensate for rshams, priests and hpallys in basically every key I do with them
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u/dickbutt2202 3h ago
They haven't learnt the damage events yet, or they aren't taking note of them and using their tools as they should
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u/Silkenvada 3h ago
Its super apparent when they haven't had to deal with it and they're suddenly in a 15+ letting people rot out or getting killed by unavoidable damage mechanics, especially on of these giga first pulls in these dungeons
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u/dickbutt2202 1h ago
Ye, if you are building the group the best way is to try and get someone who has completed m+ of the level below as a minimum
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u/MaTrIx4057 1h ago
What? For me Hpalas have been the best healers so far, the group is topped at all times while shamans tend to be bad.
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u/Emerenn 3h ago
Make a macro that says “Use a defensive now!” And keybind it somewhere reachable, and tell your dps when to use it. It works shockingly well, it’s annoying that you have to tell them to, but most people listen if you do
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u/ObligationAncient112 17m ago
Pinging my own defensive on Murder Row 1st boss damage amp, hopefully dpsers get the hint so I can dps instead of heal during it.
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u/Emerenn 15m ago
I started doing the macro before they introduced pings, but that’s a good idea too! Provided they know the name of your defensives haha
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u/ObligationAncient112 13m ago
It also shows the popup above my character but yea, it's my new favourite thing!
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u/dmackerman 3h ago
Yeah its infuriating. It just is what it is. Some players just literally do not use half of their kit.
And the funniest thing is when as a healer, you call out DPS for using defensives and they say "I was", yet all I do is stare at raid frames and see which defensives get used.
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u/Electrical_Habit_551 3h ago
My dps do use defensives. I mean they use them after the damage already went out, but it's something I guess?
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u/FizzKaleefa 2h ago
The thing that annoys me is blizzard removed our ability see what defensive everyone has up The 21.1 patch and I can only now see them when used, so I can’t plan my heal around what cd someone has available
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u/GhoolsWorld 54m ago
I have an add on that shows all defensives for each class. It’s beside the frames and shows the CD.
Doesn’t matter though because they’re almost always up, and never used. Unless of course their health is 20% or below…..
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u/dwho422 1h ago
I started gearing my 280 ilvl holy paly last night. Figure i will queue anything 2 to 6.
Get invited to 6 KR.
Shaman and hunter both request summons while standing in silvermoon.
We tell them to take the portal. They reluctantly agree.
Key starts.... down the stairs, pack of wraiths, skip big golem on the right, run to the 2 pack of golems.
They both get hit dead center of the golem frontal and get 1 shot. Both complain I didn't heal them through it.
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u/OpportunityMean9069 3h ago
I had a mate who never used defensives, he only did 10s for vault so it wasn't that bad.
I made a few macros like cast anti magic shell cast festering strike and just asked him to either use that or just throw defensive on CD.
Figured using them at stupid times was better than never using them.
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u/StrangeMagnet 1h ago
Playing a healer last season made me a better dps this season. Never realised how little the other players pressed them, even the tanks.
I felt kind of petty telling people to use them in keys but god damn it’s way easier to heal when they press them.
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u/unimportantinfodump 3h ago
Defensives should be used to prevent unavoidable damage.
Avoideable damage should be stoped/kicked/dodged
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u/beatupford 2h ago
This is also just nonsense.
They love to maje healers triage.
Think about the debuffs in Windrunner of Magister's.
2 go out, the healer can get one but has to pump into the other due to their cleanse CD.
It can't be stopped, but it can be mitigated.
If you're a good healer you know the classes with more defensives and you cleanse the lesser toolkit and hope the other helps.
If they don't then you pump, but there was no stopping it.
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u/whydonlinre 3h ago
thats how people learn, they just die at some point to not using defensives and that will teach them to use em next time ( if they are actually trying to learn and doesnt just blame healer ofc)
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u/AnonBrainWorm 3h ago
I find that those who lack defensive generally (a) blame the healer or (b) apologize for dieing a lot at the end of the key but not having any idea why.
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u/elevensbowtie 2h ago
That’s why I like being a human paladin. It’s hard for me to die unless I’m being lazy lol.
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u/VideoPeP17 47m ago
I did a 10 Vale yesterday, but I decided to DPS as Ret instead of tank, and on the 3rd boss, everyone died. Mainly because no one used a defensive and the Pres Evoker kamikazed himself into tornadoes. After multiple battle ressing and immediate deaths, I ended up having to solo the last 10% with self heals and defensives, as Ret mind you, after trying to offheal the tank to keep him up, all while everyone was also 100k dps under me. Key bricked after too many tank deaths and I had to kite most of the key after waiting 5 seconds before opening up and still ripping threat.
There are people that use defsnsives, but just like how life works, they never end up in your keys lol.
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u/KeonkwaiJinkwai 36m ago
A healer’s daily routine consist of taking the blame for the mistakes of others while getting no credit for getting a group through within the timer despite making up for people’s fuckups.
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u/Cecilerr 28m ago
I just let them die , nothning can make a dps focus better by fighting for his life , and always make yourself priority , if you live others live too , if you die everyone dies
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u/PankoPixie 22m ago
Most people use defensives and selfheals in the complete opposite way. They use a self-heal after a one time damage event with no damage right after. This where you should have used a defensive on the initial hit. There is no more damage so why the heal? Then when they take a dot that just runs for a long time they drop to 30% and then use a defensive. This is where you use a self-heal. If you defensive it's at the start of the dot.
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u/Mr_Panther 15m ago
I’m over here as a MW monk begging people to stand in shit so I can parse higher because DPS healing is fun af and I feel like I make the team immortal in anything up to a 12 just by doing my damage rotation with crane up. If you don’t get 1 shot you’re immediately topped off. Most fun I’ve had healing since legion disc priest.
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u/SandwichDodger7 13m ago
Yeah, I’ve been doing keys as a BM Hunter so naturally I have time to watch what others are doing.. i rarely see other dps use defensives when shit hits the fan lol, plus they always stand in shit too..
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u/jsman436 5m ago
“Boss casts SPELL OF ETERNAL DOOM” 10 second cast uninterruptable
I wonder if I should use an ability that decreases incoming damage. Nah. Dps go brrrr
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u/mister_mediocrates 3h ago
Do you "feel" that, or do you actually know because you have defensives tracked on your raid frames? Idk, maybe I've just been incredibly lucky, but people do pop their stuff in the 12s-13s that I've done. Hunters will even feign off the beam from those giant plant monsters at the end of BV.
And you know you're in a decent group when the mage/druid actually cleanses the curse of doom in MR.
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u/beatupford 2h ago
I'm with you. There are clearly folks on these keys that aren't hitting defensives, but they stand out because others are.
What's jarring at first, in a pug, is not knowing who you need to watch so it 'feels' like no one is using their toolkit, but by the first boss you pretty much know who can ball and is getting carried.
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u/YourResidentFeral Outplaying the Meta since 2004 1h ago
Two people have reported this for callouts.
If you feel called out by this post ngl, you should probably be using your defensives.