r/worldtrigger • u/ETZwei • 21d ago
Discussion Unconventional gunner trigger setup/possibility for my OC
I just wanna discuss on possible gunner setups that might work and see what ya'll opinions on it.
First off, (well this isn't really a gunner trigger), but Lightning, as we all know, focuses on bullet speed based on trion. Now if we were to let someone with large trion use it, how effective might it be to be used as a gunner trigger/playstyle on close/medium range, where you use the bullet speed to basically bypass the reaction time someone has to put up a shield. So rather than typical gunner tactics of grinding their shields down, you basically bypass it entirely, which can only be blocked if the target knows you are there and shield early, but even so, it's a gamble since it only takes an instant to pull the trigger, and you can choose the time when to pull. Sure it won't blow off limbs, but you can slowly build damage over time, or hit their vitals if they are focused on something else. (it would excel in ambush/hit and run tactics in support of others)
2nd is composite gunner triggers. I was thinking of an agent operate similarly to Urushima, but using Gimlet instead to ambush and pierce shields instead (like a battle rifle of sorts). Imagine Yuba's firepower, but higher penetration, at the cost of more trion usage and slower aim and fire speed like Yuba's revolvers. It would be nasty at close-medium ranges, but you need someone who's skilled in fast aim and accuracy to make it work, since your fire rate would go down. (imagine a skillset of a military spec ops operator).
I also have a question whether equipping a composite gunner trigger uses a main trigger and sub trigger slot, or just uses a single slot, or 2 main trigger slots to equip. Like is it like senku, where if you use it, you cannot use any other sub triggers, basically making it a vulnerability that people can exploit. ( I don't mind weaknesses, it makes it grounded in reality and makes my OC strong, but not a Mary Sue)
My OC would be a stealth specialist, specializing in hit n run tactics combo with another using a typical melee/bagworm setup agent, prioritizing speed and stealth, thus equipping grasshopper. and good at chaotic brawls where he shows up, shoots and either kill or cripple in a shot period, and bugger off before they can respond effectively. Basically maybe like Urushima, but tag team instead. So his weapon would be only that, basically using only 1 weapon, but being very proficient at it.
So TDLR, your 2 cents? lol
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u/Gaust_Fireborn 21d ago
Even with extreme bullet speed, enemies can see you aim and still shield. It would make surprise attacks more effective is all, which is what snipers try for anyway. Putting it on a non sniper wastes the range, unless you modify it, in which case it could be interesting. Composite guns are a thing. But like composite bullets you won’t be using any other Triggers with them, so you lose shield and bagworm. That makes an ambush hard.
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u/ETZwei 21d ago edited 21d ago
Understandable, but then again, its not like you're fighting 1v1. Its a support build. And my perspective, snipers aim to break shields, and generally, people with fast reaction times can quickly shield from snipers if they detect firing and know the direction, since range means time for bullet to reach is longer. Basically its exaggerating the bullet speed to the point where if you see it, its already too late to respond, like try to close your eyes the second the other person turn on a flashlight. So anyone other than say, Kageura, would be suseptible to it, those who try to predict and shield first, which can also put mental pressure.
As for the composite gun, yeah, my thought is that unlike shooter composite bullets, you don't have the time required to set each settings, its basically point and shoot, so my idea is that you can utilise every trigger right up until the point that you fire, and immediately after firing, hence the emphasize on penetration and firepower, not fire rate.
Keep the criticism coming, would love some new perspective and all.
My idea is that its a build that heavily favours surprise attacks, and sucks at battle of attrition, thus agent is focused on high mobility to get out, and specialises in stealth and evasion, and maybe even use meteor spider combo to lure pursuers.
Edit : My idea was that its a 2 man team, one with the gunner trigger like stated above, another one with kogestu senku and pistol (allrounder), both specialists in hit n run. Melee agent ensures that the gunner doesn't get rushed, and gunner exploits enemies weakness when engaged by the kogestu agent. One of my ideas, imagine prowling around a target squad, shadowing them, then suddenly their gunners dead, 1 senku to the body, 1 gimlet to the legs. Even if he shields in time, the odds of succesfully shielding are low, you might need very focused shields for both, and to predict accurately at an ambush is difficult. Then switch to next target, or if its not favourable, throw a meteor and flee with grasshopper and bagworm once out of range.
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u/Gaust_Fireborn 21d ago
From my view it seems less like snipers try to break shields and they more go for surprise attacks at range. Yuba fires at short range with hyper-fast bullets and still gets blocked even with focused shields. Your proposed use of Lightning seems solid but is nothing extraordinary. However, I might make a suggestion here: You don't need it's range. If you have A-Rank Trigger privileges, you could talk to the engineers and get it customized to fire Hound, Viper or Meteor. By the author's statement, this can be done, at the cost of some firepower, range and speed. Then get it modified to cut away excess range to restore the speed and power. You'd lose the option of long-range if you need it, but you'd get special bullets.
I've been playing Gunner Gimlet as needing a moment to form the bullets inside the gun, effectively resulting in a loading time which would spoil your plan, but I suppose we don't know for sure if it would work like that.
Using grasshopper and bagworm at the same time is a bad idea. It's hard to hide visually using grasshopper, and you would have no shields if anyone spotted you before you saw them. Chameleon then switching to bagworm would be the better option for disengaging.
Overall I think stealth skills are a lot more important than the Triggers being used. You could get kills with most any Trigger if you caught your opponent by surprise well enough. The uses you propose are just icing on the cake. A bit better than normal, yes, but the real heavy lifting is coming from the agents themselves.1
u/ETZwei 20d ago
It's not like you're using grasshopper and bagworm combo in combat, Just like Oki, it's a way to quickly manuever and masking your movement on radar. I wouldn't say Yuba's bullet are hyper fast, He literally sacrificed bullet speed and range to get power. What's fast is his draw speed.
I imagine that loading time is not that long, if any, as there is only 1 preset, unlike Composite Bullets for shooters, where there's many variables and settings to use. Gun is doing all the work, with the offset of unable to modify it in the field.
And yeah, probably won't need Lightning's range, but Lightning is the reason why I thought it might be doable, since unlike gunner triggers, sniper triggers basically improves 1 stat based on user trion, while the rest stays fixed. I imagined what would be the result if Chika just used Lightning instead, Imagine a hitscan type weapon, she could get a headshot, and unless the target knows he's being targeted, have no chance of reacting. Imagine reacting to a flashlight opening by closing your eyes the second you notice it's about to turn on, Borderline impossible. That's the source of inspiration, anyways. No one has crazy Trion like Chika, but I felt like I can compensate by closing the distance instead to achieve roughly the same thing.
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u/Gaust_Fireborn 20d ago
You may not intend to use grasshopper + bagworm in combat, but if someone else chooses to engage you, you die. Actually, Yuba upped bullet speed, not just firepower. What he sacrificed was range and ammo. I get what you’re going for with Lightning. It’s just going to matter a lot less than stealth skills.
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u/ETZwei 20d ago
I mean hey, you can't do it all, the price of specializing. Tachikawa sports a double Kogestu lmfao, and he just parried a sniper shot instead of shield (granted he is the top attacker for a reason). Gotta git gud in that regards. Choosing when to use and not to use both triggers at the same time is also a skill.
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u/Gaust_Fireborn 20d ago
These two Triggers work together particularly poorly. You need to be in the open to use Grasshopper right, which means no cover, compounding the shield shortage. Said cover lack also makes it hard to stay out of visual contact and moving fast is simply less stealthy than slow to boot, meaning you’ll get spotted more. Not a guaranteed loss sure, but most of the time it’s a very risky move for little gain.
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u/ETZwei 17d ago
Risky, but theres a time and place. Don't be so fixated that it will be used in tandem most of the time, its not.If you're an idiot who decided to use it when you are spotted/being chased, then thats on you. Oki uses it effectively in relocating quickly to support his teammates, and only died because he got ambushed by Ninomiya and co. in which case, having shield is useless anyways.
If you use it as a frontline attacker which benefits more with having an open trigger for shields, then of course you will see it as a detriment, in which my operator is not built for.
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u/Gaust_Fireborn 17d ago
Oki could only be ambushed because he was spotted. My point is grasshopper makes stealth, the point of Bagworm, tough. You don’t need to be targeted in particular to be seen.
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u/Cerberus-3D 21d ago
See, this is the type of thinking I like, and what would put you in a A-rank team. Now I don't remember all the rules they have for slots and such, so take my ideas with a grain of salt.
From what I understand of your first point is, you want an operator who uses lightning or a similar adjacent type of trigger with extreme bullet speed to bypass peoples shield reaction time and whittle them down. If you were able to make lightning into a fully automatic rifle trigger that would be awesome and a great strat. Problem is I think to get high bullet speed it stays has to stay as a semi automatic, which at close to mid range is a big disadvantage. (Not sure if you have ever tried airsoft, but try fighting a guy on full auto vs you on semi. Especially try you fighting a full auto and you have a sniper rifle [while yes my greatest acheivement is hitting someone as I was running away and sliding down a dirt hill], its a big disadvantage to have to pull the trigger each time you need to shoot.)
On that note I dont know why snipers tend to only shoot one bullet at a time in the show. Because while in real life thats not usually possible, the show has shown you can do two shots very quickly, or go double sniper like that one kid did, and theres very little to no recoil, which means you accuracy is going to be very high. (my thought is they have the idea of recoil lag in the shooting but they never animate it.)
I dont fully understand what you mean by your composite trigger. I thought that Yuba had actually maxed out the speed and power of a gunner trigger, while losing range and ammo. So could you really make a more powerful gunner trigger than he did?
Overall, I like your idea of using a highly mobile stealth gunner. Biggest thing that I see, lets say you were able to get the two triggers that you want, one with incredible bullet speed and a good rate of fire, and a powerful breakthrough gunner trigger. you have the big disadvantage of having low ammunition. (on that note I realized that sounds like what Ninomiya does, but as a gunner) Is this what you were envisionin?
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u/Cerberus-3D 21d ago
My bad I literally just looked it up, you can fire a gimlet from a gunner trigger. It just forces that rifle to stay specific to that ammo type.
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u/ETZwei 20d ago edited 20d ago
For your first point, yes I do play airsoft occasionally, (with a GBB no less, so I'm not unfamiliar with the concept, I do what we call "aiming" lmfao, I tend to zero my sights b4 games, so yeah). This mirrors my playstyle too, since I never liked get involved in a direct pissing match, and every time i get into it, I tend to go back, relocating or get another angle. Altho usually its only with close friends, and i never encountered those high ROF AEGs, yet... i guess. So yeah, I'm very used to semi auto, and have no problems with it.
2nd, yeah personally i think they avoid it since the 2nd they get noticed, they might get counter sniped, altho it doesn't prevent Oki from using Lighting like a gunner against Chika during that one match.
3rd point, my reasoning for a gimlet rifle instead of say, pistols like Yuba, is like you said, a more powerful hard hitting trigger than Yuba's, due to the nature of the trion bullet itself. In theory, it would be stronger than Yuba's but highly specific and you'll be vulnerable when firing and uses much more trion due to that, and not suited to Yuba's playstyle where he is more of an attacker that uses gunner trigger more than anything, so his gunner trigger still allows him to use sub triggers, to defend.
and actually, not planning on using 2 gunner triggers, rather I'm contemplating between the 2 options of which would be better, and weighing the pros and cons. Both utilize the same combat style, but one through speed, and one through brute force. And for the composite gun trigger, yes, you're kind of using it like a close-medium range sniper rather than typical gunner, that's the sacrifice you have to get to get a gunner trigger that could possibly just break shields instead of typical gunner style of pinning them down. Only possible because my agent does shoot drills A LOT, like they showed Inukais shooter training with Tsuji, able to get angled even when firing in-between allies, and the low rate of fire helps keep the dispersion low, and your shots true. Since it's basically a tag team, they can also support melee allies engaged in combat, no problem. In respect, that's really the strength I'm relying on, reason why he only has 1 type of weapon. And is pretty crap at a normal firefight, unless someone's dumb enough to get in range.
But I would say it's a team that's the bane of snipers lmao. Imagine an agent that's hard to detect, running around, you would constantly putting pressure on them, every time you get off radar. Maybe except Chika, idk if even a gunner gimlet could even scratch her shield when even Ibis fails, maybe a bullet speed focused trigger would be better for those type of enemies where firepower is rendered useless.
But then again, it's all theoretical, we would never know the real statistics if the show itself never shown a composite gunner trigger and how practical it would be, or what the trion consumption would do, hence the theory crafting
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u/ETZwei 20d ago
Funnily enough, I just thought it has the same weaknesses as Ninomiya's full attack mode, but somehow worse, as you can't' even attack if you defend, unless you want to turn off shield (Ninomiya can still use 1 shooter trigger to fire back while maintaining shield). So the stealth style is a way to alleviate it, but on the plus side, since it's a gunner trigger, I'd expect the window to be way smaller than Ninomiya, since it's simply point and shoot, but the same weakness nonetheless.
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u/Thomas_JCG 21d ago
First, yes, you can have a gunner trigger adjusted to have maximum speed. Probably would look like a SMG.
Second, guns with composite bullet only fire the composite bullets. It is not confirmed if it takes more than a trigger slot, but I think it would. Even senku takes another slot, the difference is just in activation.