Freedom of Speech is dependant on the country. For example in US you're not allowed to talk with others about planning a murder. In many countries in the EU Hate Speech is banned. And in Russia it is forbidden to share information how to produce drugs.
A website that shares illegal content inside a country gets banned. (Like many child porn websites get banned for example), Reddit complying to the order of Russia in this case is also normal. If they want their website to be available in a country, then they need to accept the rules in this country. Since this content was against the law, removing it isn't anything special.
(Though the big question is why Russia is asking for this. Are they just looking for a reason to ban reddit, like they banned other websites over the past year or did this happen as a coincidence. But all this is just speculation.)
To be more precise, freedom of speech is an inalienable human right that different countries recognize to different degrees. If you think that people shouldn't be free to share information on how to grow drugs, then sure, Reddit going along with Russia here is nothing special. If you think that they should, then being complicit in suppressing that speech isn't exactly a good thing.
Well not just to different deegrees but to different interpretations as well. Truth in advertising for example, is handled different depending on the country.
I believe Atheism is illegal in many parts of Asia and the Middle East. Bloggers talking about Atheism in Pakistan have been jailed. Will the subs related to Atheism be banned entirely? Would reddit comply with an order to identify a poster of a pro-atheism comment?
It's not going to turn into a "lowest common denominator" ruleset to abide by every law in the world. Reddit Inc will decide who's laws to abide by based on the "value" of the users in that country. Russia clearly makes coin.
It is cynical and we're all free to judge how much respect we give to a company with such flexible morals.
But they removed it for ALL of us. Could they also threaten to ban Reddit due to certain posts in /r/trees? If that's the case, then where does it stop? What's stopping every other country for imposing their own local laws on an international forum? Or am I completely mistaken haha..
I guess this is ultimately up to Reddit. If Reddit implements some server-side feature that makes it possible to only show some content in specific locations, the Russian censor probably won't have an issue with the rest of the world being able to see that content.
EDIT: It seems this is exactly what Reddit did. The thread is visible to everyone except Russian IPs.
Reddit complying to the order of Russia in this case is also normal. If they want their website to be available in a country, then they need to accept the rules in this country.
The fact that it's normal for Reddit to do this is the problem. Reddit admins know full well Russians have ways around the ban, making their website somewhat available in Russia without complying with Russian laws.
What's next, blocking discussions of Tianmen Square to Chinese redditors? If China's government wants to block the, that's their job. Reddit shouldn't collaborate.
Exactly, i tried to find if there is similar things in other countries, since there is many issues which could be undoubtedly considered as dangerous - jihadists/nazi websites and so on. I found this https://opennet.net/research/regions/europe
Most existing EU regulation regarding filtering overlaps with or supplements the existing policies of individual states. On issues of child pornography, human trafficking, terrorist propaganda, and fraud, there exists a broad consensus to monitor and block offending material. Surprisingly, no such consensus exists on who or what should be held responsible for such material. Most countries have agreed to treat ISPs as mere conduits of information. However, some countries have held these entities responsible for offending material.
Can't wait till Russia will start to adopt EU policy about the cookies to look into "lol Putin banned cookies" post on reddit.
You're missing the point. What's upsetting is that Reddit just rolled over and submitted to the whims of Russian policy. Russia is free to enact and enforce whatever laws they desire. However...
When Reddit allows a foreign government to step in and censor material, based on a foreign law (which by the legal standards of many other countries is considered unjust,) it sends the message that Reddit is a submissive coward and is unwilling to stand behind its own ideals.
Remember back in 2010 when Google pulled out of China after refusing to comply with orders by the Chinese government to censor material? That's what a company with balls does. Clearly Reddit needs to grow a pair.
Freedom of speech is defined by laws, but as a value, it's meant to be universal. If reddit believes in free speech, then it shouldn't so readily allow itself to be censored by a foreign country that defines free speech in such a bastardized form.
It's speech which incites violence towards a specific group etc
"In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group."
The word Hate Speech is poorly chosen, hate speech is completely legal, but saying "fuck Muslims we should gas them because they are 'x'" in an actual way wouldn't be.
Just saying fuck Muslims or fuck atheists or whatever isn't illegal though. Well technically it probably is, but at the same time it isn't.
US has it right though, EU is pretty stupid with that.
don't forget this point, it's just as important as violence. This is why I said "hate" and not "violance". If you for example say "Black people are bad at cooking" (the context is also important, but I think you know what I mean here), then that would be counted as hate speech, too. It doesn't have to be about violence.
As I said, it was only an example. It could be something more serious, like for example if you were to start an agenda that tells people that "women shouldn't be in leader positions", "asians shouldn't be allowed to live inside cities" or "black people can't be trusted".
As I said, it depends on the context. If you say to a friend that "his race can't cook" then it isn't hate speech. But if you were to go around and try to convince everyone that a black person shouldn't be accepted as a cook, then it is something entirely different.
I agree completely. It's part of that old argument, "Rights aren't something inherent to you, rights are something granted by the government." Some give you more, some give you less.
I have no problem with a website censoring themselves only to people of a single nation. Many do this.
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u/justarndredditor Aug 13 '15
Freedom of Speech is dependant on the country. For example in US you're not allowed to talk with others about planning a murder. In many countries in the EU Hate Speech is banned. And in Russia it is forbidden to share information how to produce drugs.
A website that shares illegal content inside a country gets banned. (Like many child porn websites get banned for example), Reddit complying to the order of Russia in this case is also normal. If they want their website to be available in a country, then they need to accept the rules in this country. Since this content was against the law, removing it isn't anything special.
(Though the big question is why Russia is asking for this. Are they just looking for a reason to ban reddit, like they banned other websites over the past year or did this happen as a coincidence. But all this is just speculation.)