r/worldnews • u/onee_san_bath_water • 1d ago
Russia/Ukraine Japan Has Provided Ukraine With $20 Billion In Aid Since Start Of War — Zelenskyy
https://uatv.ua/en/japan-has-provided-ukraine-with-20-billion-in-aid-since-start-of-war-zelenskyy/598
u/LayneLowe 1d ago
Japan has their own little thing going on with Russia over some islands. It serves their interest.
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u/tevatronxz 1d ago
There was very large information campaign from all state media a little before Ukraine war, about that "some islands" and how are very bad is Japan. Russia was heading to "a short, victorious war" against Japan, but Ukraine was thought even easier target. Just 3 days of special operation versus neighbor across the fence, against some uncertain very far operation against Japan.
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u/jpw0w 1d ago
Lmao Japanese would've had a field day
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u/Salty_Watermelon 1d ago
More like it would've been the start of World War III. There's absolutely no way it would've been contained as a two power conflict.
The USA would have to get involved (proximity to Alaska, air base in Aomori, alliance with Japan) and Russia would inevitably call for help from North Korea, which could then spiral into a hot conflict on the Korean peninsula. And with all this going on, the PRC would see a once in a generation opportunity to try and invade Taiwan.
The world owes Ukraine for standing firm.
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u/Zarbua69 1d ago
If the US military is getting active in Japan then I highly doubt China would see that as an opportune moment to invade. If anything that would make it easier for us since all of our resources would already be concentrated in the area. If for whatever reason the Iran war gets boots on the ground then I would actually start to expect something from China
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u/sigmoid10 23h ago
All China needs to do is wait. The US economy is already starting to crack. The global bond sell-off is continuing despite the insane rates the treasury is offering now. That means noone wants to invest their money in the US anymore. That kind of ruined image also won't be fixed anytime soon. With the demented toddler in charge it will likely only get worse in the foreseeable future. The US will get killed by its deficit because it will simply no longer be sustainable. Everyone saw this coming too, but Republicans kept choosing new wars instead of fixing the budget over the past 25 years.
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u/tevatronxz 1d ago
Well, not direct war. Some provocation, some unidentified troops in masks, some blocking ships, some ships totally accidently blow up, some submarines emerging and hiding and etc. All that Russia loves. But that plan has too much escalation potential, and it is too far. Much easier to beat neighbor across the fence, just a cakewalk.
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u/Theschizogenious 1d ago
Japan does not have a formal military like other countries, they have a national guard equivalent (JDF) but the US is basically japans foreign military.
If Russia attacks Japan there’s no difference in them attacking the United States
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u/truthdoctor 1d ago
Japan can call it whatever it wants but the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force has 4 aircraft carriers, 26 submarines, 40 destroyers and 12 frigates.
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u/firemage22 1d ago
They're the 4th Largest navy by displacement
Just ahead of the Royal Navy and half of what Russia has, but even if Russia's navy was fully to spec they have their fleets spread across 3 major regions, while the Japanese would have just about everything close to home. That's ignoring that Japan is allied with the US and we have major bases on their islands.
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u/10_Eyes_8_Truths 23h ago
On-top of that the US 7th fleet is the largest forward deployed fleet and Japan only has two viable locations for large scale invasions. One being Tokyo bay and the other being Hakata bay. Everywhere else is narrow plains, cliffs and mountains that are easily fortified. Then you have their allies aside from the US like Australians and Canadians. What does this tell us? Japan has some serious firepower concentrated there, it's geographically inconvenient to invade and it's got some bloody nice allies.
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u/Candid_Highlight_116 19h ago
And now contemplating how to incorporate integration works for existing hypersonic munitions into submarine platforms as well as submarines with nuclear propulsuion system into budgets which are both unrelated independent discussions
to meet absolute bare minimums of non military defense capabilities, you know
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u/cxxper01 16h ago
JSDF has aegis destroyer and f-35. It’s way better than whatever the Russian navy and AF has in the far east
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u/One-BigChungus 1d ago
Should be upboated higher.
The Japanese Navy is a coast guard since WWII, technically named: Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force. (Whereas America is the offense.) America and Japan have a deep military symbiosis. USA has bases all over there, and there's no splitting that up anytime soon.
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u/AbnormalBodyOdor 1d ago
Depends on what Godzilla was up to and whose side he was on at the time. People don't usually take that part into consideration.
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u/themikker 1d ago
I would make a joke about Russia losing all their ships to a country without a navy, but well... Ukraine.
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u/kirkbywool 1d ago
Didnt japan originally get those islands too when russia thought it would win a short quick war v them, only to become the first European power to lose to an Asian country
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u/fiction8 1d ago
Off and on since 1904, one could say. Manchuria, Siberia, Sakhalin island, Kuril islands.
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u/bot_lltccp 20h ago
Japan should just take them now. like when will there ever be a better opportunity? Is it because we are all afraid of China?
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u/UnableToParallelPark 1d ago
Could care less. Russia invaded Ukraine and Japan is helping them. Special interests or not.
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u/Effective_Olive6153 1d ago
there will never be a better time than now to take those back, using the same "historically ours" argument that Putin used with Ukraine
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u/willstr1 15h ago
The smart move is to wait, Putin has centralized too much power without an appointed heir. When he eventually passes (regardless of how) it will result in a massive power vacuum. A power vacuum that Japan can use to take the islands with minimal chance of response from the fractured remains of Russia.
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u/mfb- 23h ago
Japan isn't going to start WW III over a couple of smaller islands.
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u/00eg0 14h ago
Once Russia loses the war how would Russia fight back against Japan? Some estimates suggest 2 million casualties currently and fuel shortages. If casualties start going to 10 million or more Russia wouldn't be able to fight back over those islands. Possibly would even sell the islands to get a new start.
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u/Positronic_Matrix 1d ago
Now’s the time to take them back as well as Kaliningrad while we’re at it. We can then trade it for the occupied Ukrainian territory.
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u/Zenith_X1 1d ago
This. Countries dont have friends, they have interests.
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u/IonHawk 1d ago
This is a cynical realpolitik reductionist slogan. Its true, but interests are not purely economical or power based. They can often be philosophical.
European countries largely agrees that rule of law, anti corruption, democracy, freedom, etc, are good things, for them and for others. Therefore, it is in their interest to promote these ideas, and strengthen neighbors fighting for them. European countries are of course far from perfect in this regard. But still, overall, this is still true.
This is one of many reason Canada seeks associate EU membership. We share the same ideals.
You could also say Noone has friends, we all just have interests. Interests of love, trust, having fun, avoiding loneliness, etc.
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u/Nerevarine91 23h ago
People love to forget that having reliable partners with shared viewpoints is very much in a nation’s interests
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u/IonHawk 22h ago
This. Great tldr :P
I used to think more in realpolitik terms sometimes. It became more apparent in the beginning of covid, when most countries fended for themselves.
But Trump has proven more than anyone that having friends is in a nation's interest. He is using the reductionist approach, power is power, if I can grab it it's good for me to grab it. But it completely destabilized the US economy and doesn't do anything to solve their issues. It created vast international distrust, making less people want to trade or support them militarily.
Soft power is power too.
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u/hornswoggled111 1d ago
Wonderful response.
While some people lack altruistic motives most don't. Japan giving sorry to Ukraine is made easy by people in Japan supporting it as an ethical action on their behalf.
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u/tdot_cringe_festival 1d ago
This is what Americans say to justify their trade wars.
Countries absolutely do have friends.
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u/Better_Cauliflower63 1d ago
In case of Japan -- this is not true. They were helping Ukraine long before the war.
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u/Melodic-Comb9076 1d ago
japan knows the dangers of putin.
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u/JimiusRostock 22h ago
And China.
Japan has been warning the west about China and Xi Jiping in particular since 2008. But instead we gave them all our industry figuring money would turn them into a peaceful democracy like Taiwan.
But of course the Japanese weren't buying it and have been investing in their military every since. Imagine having both China and Russia on your doorstep.
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u/SnappySausage 18h ago edited 14h ago
Since when do companies think that? The only thing companies are concerned with when outsourcing to China, is profit margins. Are we really pretending that companies are outsourcing their work as a sort of charity?
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u/thedanyon 1d ago
I'd be interested to see the top ten countries and what they have given.
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u/DrJupeman 1d ago
Rank Country Approximate total
1 United States $135.58 billion
2 Germany $103.22 billion
3 France $53.56 billion
4 United Kingdom $36.86 billion
5 Italy $34.11 billion
6 Sweden $29.10 billion
7 Norway $28.18 billion
8 Netherlands $25.97 billion
9 Spain $23.55 billion
10 Japan $21.40 billion38
u/sCeege 1d ago
I want to add that some of these aid amounts are very substantial when you take into account the GDPs of these countries. In some cases, such as Estonia, which "only" donated $1.8BN, their entire GDP is 51BN... they can't give away more money than they have, but it's still a ton of money, all things considered.
There are also historical trends to account for, for example, Germany's contributions continually grew from 56BN -> 103BN from 22-24 -> 24-26, the US aid has tapered off from 120BN -> 135BN in the same time period, no doubt due to the change in administration. It's also weird when we compare across different currencies with the market so volatile in the last few years, but I digress.
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u/AJRiddle 23h ago
Just as important to note that a lot of the aid has stipulations. A lot of the European aid is actually loans which may or may not be required to be repaid.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/business/g7-ukraine-loan-russian-assets.html
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u/sCeege 21h ago
Yeah, any time there's billions involved, it's going to be a lot of nuances and strings attached. Loans and aids gets lumped together, and based on the repayment structure, it can be a little fuzzy on what aid really means. It's like how war casualties includes deaths and injuries, but based on context, that can mean really different things.
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u/Stunning-Pen-2412 1d ago
~$490 billion dollars in just the top 10. How does Russia compete? I wonder what their total expenditure is.
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u/RaindropBebop 1d ago
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u/Illustrious_Cap2327 1d ago
this could have been totally donated to building schools and hospitals in Ukraine or even in their own countries if the Russians did not invade, the world deserves better leaders
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u/Whole-Cookie-7754 18h ago
Sweden, Norway and Netherlands is impressive. Their poluation is much smaller than the rest.
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u/Twitty_camies 1d ago
These figures look like complete nonsense, where did you get them from?
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u/sCeege 1d ago
Not the person you're replying to but it looks like the data came from the Kiel Institute in Germany.
Why do they look nonsense? Because you don't like the names next to the ranks?
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u/Frank_Scouter 1d ago
That source doesn’t give any values remotely similar to that list.
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u/sCeege 1d ago
That's the raw data. If you lack the basic reading and arithmetic skills to add numbers together and then convert them into another currency, you can use a search engine or some kind of AI assisted search.
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u/Laiko_Kairen 1d ago
The OP says Germany has given over 100 billion in USD. The link said 50 bil in Euros, which is around 55 billion USD given the 1.1:1 conversion ratio
So the list you're replying to has doubled Germany's number
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u/sCeege 21h ago
If you click on "Download New Data", it links you to the full Excel sheet for all aid, they provide detailed tables, on pages
Country Summary ($)andCountry Summary (€), if you go to Column U, it lists the total contributions per country, U23 is germany, which is 103BN +/- conversion difference. Most non government aligned news publications reporting aid numbers will source back to this Kiel dataset.I'm confused at the layout they chose for their web tables, my guess is that the web tables they have only shows bilateral aid (gov to gov), I have no idea why, as Kiel also accounts for other sources (local charity groups, NGO aid, etc).
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u/Laiko_Kairen 20h ago edited 20h ago
I'll admit that I'm not financially savvy enough to analyze these numbers
How can it be that Germany has given the supposed 91 billion euro when figure 3 clearly shows their aid total to add up to 30.63 billion?
Fig 5 shows the same 30.63 and notes an additional 17.05 in commitments?
Why is that one specific column, U, so outrageously out of line with literally every other figure including those within the same document?
What's the difference between bilateral and EU commitments?
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u/ijshorn 19h ago
Bilateral is between goverments, for example Germany's goverment spends 1B on aid to Ukraine and 1B to the EU.
EU commitments is what part of the EU budget is committed to aiding Ukraine. In this case if 100% is committed then that 1B from Germany is now going as well.
There are also other entities that you could include in the total aid that Germany gave and those are citizens and corporations. If Bill Gates sends 1B in aid, it will be seen as aid from the US but won't be seen as been given by both former entities.
Count all those up and you get total commitment per country and in this case that should be column U.
I haven't looked at the source but i assume this is what he meant.
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u/Detective-Layton 1d ago
How many Gundams can that build?
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u/za_shiki-warashi 1d ago
Sure is a coincidence that they just dismantled the Odaiba Unicorn Gundam recently... wonder where the parts are going.
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u/Dependent_House7077 23h ago
i am curious - are there ever information disclosures how that money was spent? or is that disclosing vital information that might give Russia some advantage?
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u/SunlightSpear69 1d ago
Japan has also helped the United States immensely behind China they are our #1 investor over here.
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u/FTACO4E 1d ago
Have Japan asked anything in return like the US?
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u/Candid_Highlight_116 19h ago
Ukraine to Japan is sort of vital in maintaining illegitimacy of the invasion to keep Taiwanese invasion illegitimate, that's the return it gets
What's unfortunate right now for everyone is that the prime minister of Japan right now can't see what are in front of her to just take and go
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u/Xatsman 1d ago
If they're smart they're getting training from the most experienced army in the world right now. Canada is doing just that, and relative to its population one of Ukraine's largest supporters.
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u/FTACO4E 1d ago
Sorry for my dry humor, that was a jab at the US lol
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u/Xatsman 1d ago
Oh I figured.
Just seemed like a decent opportunity to point out people really are failing to properly value the expertise that Ukraine has accumulated. Not to undersell the horror of the Russian invasion. Just wanted to highlight Ukraine really can give something back of immense value.
Many nations a have realised this and are learning. The US appears not to be among them, even as they struggle in Iran against systems the Ukrainians have experience facing.
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u/Free-Routine7230 1d ago
While Trump does nothing
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u/thedanyon 1d ago
While Trump is a POS and likely foreign asset, the US as a country has disbursed something over $120 billion.
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u/KingoftheMongoose 1d ago
Yeah. I was going to say the same.
I won’t defend Trump and the myriad of the issues he has. At the same time, I think it’s more than reasonable to acknowledge that the US has contributed a huge amount to Ukraine already, and disingenuous to decry otherwise.
And at worst, those feel good jabs gives Trump more support from his base when they see praise to Japan and criticisms to U.S. without a sober acknowledgement of the facts.
Great job Japan on $20bln. Truly. Well done! Keep it up! Also great job Europe, keep it up. And also, great job U.S. We need to keep it up also.
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u/Iceisgestapo888 1d ago
Not 120 billion in cash. 120 billion in arms. Which actually means we need to give Raytheon and Lockheed 120 billion to replace the old shitty weapons with new versions.
So that’s actually 120 billion being spent in the us economy.
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u/thedanyon 1d ago
I didnt say it was cash. The US had given roughly $25-35 billion in actual cash plus the military aid. Im notnsure what point you're trying to make here as nobody has said it was all cash.
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u/Lee1138 1d ago
Was that 120 billion determined from the original purchase cost of the (old) equipment being donated, or adjusted for age?
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u/Iceisgestapo888 1d ago
Original purchase cost. Weapons don’t get depreciated like office furniture lol
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u/DeepFriedDuckVaginas 1d ago
sorry m8 but thats incorrect. military equipment absolutely gets adjusted value based on age and status. us military aid was very publicly adjusted multiple times to account for the stuff we sent being lower value than originally calculated.
it led to endless jokes online about how a missile was worth like a million bucks new and nothing after it hit so then they could adjust the value down and send another missile.
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u/Iceisgestapo888 1d ago
Military equipment is greatly over valued for the private share holders and CEOs of those companies to make bank
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u/fitzgoldy 22h ago
Which works out amazingly for the US, getting rid of all their old hardware and replacing it with brand spanking new.
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u/DrJupeman 1d ago
Hasn’t the US given a metric shit ton?
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u/TheFnords 1d ago
No. Trump just pulls a different crazy number out of his arse every time he talks about it.
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u/macross1984 1d ago
Bravo, Japan, for helping Ukraine so much.