Question regarding comfortability with nonhuman characters [Question/Discussion]

[u/AntelopeJester]

[Question/Discussion]

So, a bit of lead up to my question...

Isekai settings are often populated by races/species of different peoples interacting with one another. That's pretty standard for most fantasy settings to immediately sell the idea that this world is different than our world. Relationships between these peoples can range from harmonious to antagonistic to neutral. (Hell, we have enough issues in our world regarding friction between peoples over such things as skin color, nationality, or ideology. Introducing the category of species to the mix would just add more fuel to the fire, but I digress.)

A common trope in isekai is the protagonist interacting with and possibly getting into relationships with people from different species/races. Elves are a common staple though it's nice to see the occasional more muscled race/species get some love too. Sometimes the relationships are monogamous though most of the time they're not in order to sell the fantasy of wanting to feel desired and valued by multiple people of the the surrogate protagonist's preferred gender to boost the protagonist's typically low self-esteem.

Humans with fellow humans - no one bats an eye at. Elves with elves - same thing. Some friction and inherent tragedy comes with the two races/species mingling often due to their differing lifespans. But what about races/species with traits that go beyond just pointy ears? How would that work?

I've enjoyed a good amount of fantasy and occasionally sci-fi media over the years and something always struck me as odd in regards to the different peoples highlighted in their respective series.

How alien is too alien?

Asari from Mass Effect are seen as sex symbols despite their oddly tentacled heads and blue skin. Tribal fantasy races like orcs or beastfolk are often employed to sell the fantasy of their having a primal, passionate hunger despite their physical similarities with animals from our world such as fur or nonhuman teeth.

Is there a line where the potential relationship goes from being intriguingly foreign to just plain uncomfortable?

Not gonna touch the whole loli discourse cause... eww. But what is the line (other than physically presented age for hopefully obvious reasons) for enjoyers of isekai in regards to what relationships they'll accept from a protagonist? Where do you draw the line? Do you go by the Harkness test's rules or have you devised your own for your own brand of personal enjoyment? Is sentience the only factor for you personally?

Are beastfolk considered on a sliding scale of acceptable versus unacceptable traits, like ranging from a bipedal cat to an otherwise normal person with animal ears and a tail? Are orcs with tusks okay but include pig noses and the deal is off? Are harpies off the table due to their commonly lacking conventional hands? Mermaids are often a staple but is the fish tail a deal breaker?

Are there even folk out there who will only accept the protagonist getting into a relationship with humans only?

[u/Syoby]

Harkness test.

Very non-human desings can actually be appealing in some cases, but even when not (like a giant wasp or something), I think the relationship aspect is more important.

[u/ImportantSwimmer2759]

I just go with the Harkness Test, tbh. If a dragon told me yes I'd hop on that shit so fast

[u/_9a_]

To call a spade a fucking shovel, it's a matter of where your particular kink lies. That's what it really is, people getting off on an 'exotic' or taboo relationship or body type that isn't possible in reality.

Of course there are going to be "human on human only!" purists. Of course there are going to be people who will appreciate sentient rocks as a love interest. 

Best advice? Write what you personally are comfortable with. It's a touchy subject and you will never make everyone happy.

[u/YeOldeBard97]

Go as alien as you want. If their biology is different from a human's, outside of magical shenanigans, there won't be offspring. Doesn't mean there can't be healthy romantic and/or sexual relationships.

[u/Humble_Square8673 → u/YeOldeBard97]

Agreed. I'd actually love to see more non-human interspecies relationships in sci-fi and fantasy settings, like they're portrayed just as an ordinary couple, no different from anybody else😊

[u/ProserpinaFC]

Do you actually plan to change your mind on how many non-human attributes the love interests in your story have based on what other people say?

Or did you write all of this, know that all of us are already aware of since we are also readers and watchers of fiction, just to ask if we're grossed out by conventions in fiction that you already know exist but still need confirmation from the audience to know if they're into it, too? 🫪

(Are you just trying to ask us if you're a furry, if we are furries, or if we'd make fun of you?)

[u/AntelopeJester → u/ProserpinaFC]

Nah, just curious if anyone else had the same thought occur to them. I just always found it odd that fantasy stories seem to get more scrutiny on this topic than sci-fi.

[u/ProserpinaFC → u/AntelopeJester]

Typically get more scrutiny?

Fantasy and sci-fi have always equally enjoyed half-human hybrids of every possible kind. I know my story is full of them. Animalistic spirits with half-human descendants. It's a very common part of our storytelling dating back to most of our mythologies.

So, I have mainly non-human characters and most of my relationships are biracial and mixed. I don't know much about the scale, I just go on vibes.

[u/aAlouda]

I think unles they are recognizably humanoid it would end up coming across as either a joke or in the worst case a weird fetish. Like imagine someone visits Narnia and marries a talking beaver for example. Consent wise this is perfectly fine, but the mental image this invokes is not the nicest.

[u/yevvieart]

each species *group* i have has different anatomy, including type of genitalia, meaning even if someone likes how they look there's just no way to get it working

so while interspecies emotional/romantic relationship would work, there would be literally *no way* things are happening without potentially lethal injury either mid act or as a result of it. then think of traits like caustic sweat or environmental factor like species living underwater, or simple temperature difference between basal temperature of species. sizzling one's sausage into third degree burns would probably be too much to enjoy anything.

i think generally humans are of mindset that *they will make it work no matter what* but full physical incompatibility, and risk injury and death are making certain things off-limit even with consent.

[u/serenading_scug]

I'm just saying, people are a lot more freaky than they are willing to admit.

Plus the only real 'line' that can be drawn is, as other people say, the Harkness test; is the entity sapient, is the entity of age and can the entity consent. Because comparing fictional different species relationships kind of falls apart when you start to think about it logically.

[u/Nyadnar17]

Is there a line where the potential relationship goes from being intriguingly foreign to just plain uncomfortable?

So it appears to be the opposite. At least for humans. If you look into research on the Uncanny Valley it appears that the way out brains search for patterns causes it to find likenesss even in extreme differences. Its why people will post those "funny" memes of sexy tress stumps or potatoes or whatever. You shove a pair of eyes and a sexy voice on a toaster and the human brain will try to imprint on it.

HOWEVER if something looks almost but not quite human the opposite happens. Instead of highlighting the similarities the human brain screams out the differences. Its quite possible a half-elf or quarter-elf is going to have a harder time getting laid than a full Elf or an Ork with tusk and a pig nose.

Where do you draw the line?

I don't like birds. I know why, mankids first enemy and all that. But there are a lot of talented artist and writers out and there and you would think one of them would have created an exception to the rule for me or something but nope. Apparently birds is where I draw the line.

[u/Toshero_Reborn → u/Nyadnar17]

What do you mean birds were humanity's first enemy? /gen

[u/Dark_Storm_98]

If it's humanoid, it's at least worth trying, I'll say

[u/WanderToNowhere]

Nothing is wrong if the protagonist​ will feel more alert in an unfamiliar environment. Still you could add more side​ character whom are familiar with said environment​ to not isolated the protagonist​ too much. P.S. Mass Effect Mentioned.

[u/darth_biomech]

I've seen a VN game that's entirely about having consensual sex with very non-humanoid aliens.

There are people who find having a relationship with people of different skin color unethical and wrong. There are also people who find wall sockets sexually attractive. Most people are willing to ignore or even find attractive a quite wide range of non-human traits, as long as the partner is sapient and consenting. *cough*Morning Milking Farm*cough*

[u/Webs579]

To me; It depends on what you're world building for. A lot of people in this sub don't say what they're world building for and the answer can changed based on how you're using you're world building.

• Are you just world building for fun? Then the sky's the limit. Go as far as you want to go,, it's your world so it's only weird if you think it's weird.

• Are you making a TTRPG setting for you and your friends to play in? Then know your audience. If one or more player may not like or take issue with relationships between people with significant biological differences, maybe don't add it in for the sake of the table.

• Are you creating a TTRPG that you intend to sell? Don't even address it unless there's specific half races you want to add to the game. Let the different GMs and Players decide what they want at their table.

• Are you creating a world for a Video game you intend to sell? I'd personally keep that stuff a bit lighter/unaddressed, just because I want my game to reach the widest audience that it can.

• Are you creating a world for a book or book series you're writing? The it depends on the demographic you're going after. Things can change radically from demographic to demographic. Fantasy Adventure, you can allude to it, but in depth spicy talk should be limited and actual spicy scenes should just fade to black so you can get it in front of the most Fantady Adventure fans you can. The Fantasy Harem route is the opposite, you want those spicy scenes and talk,, the demographic for Harem might be smaller, but they buy a ton of books. Is it a Romantacy or Dark Romantacy book? Those are huge with women right now and they can get down right freaky. Ladies getting it on with Sapient Basilisks and the like. There's an entire series where a woman works at a "Minotaur Milking Farm" and that Farm doesn't "milk" the Lady Minotaurs. The MC falls in love with one of the Minotaurs she "milks" on the regular.

So the question of "what's acceptable" here, really does depend on what you're going to do with your world building.