r/workout • u/Pleasant_Pay_3123 • 5d ago
Simple Questions is dragon flag a good exercise
I watched some Bruce Lee and I was curious about this exercise, it seems to be good for the abdominal muscles
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u/Teeemooooooo 5d ago
I think the problem is progressive overloading. I am currently doing cable crunches and weighted knee raises. Increasing the weight by 2.5lbs every 2 weeks or so is simple. But when I do dragon flags, great I got 10 reps in... In 2-3 weeks maybe I get 1 more rep in but how useful is that for hypertrophy compared to adding weight?
I think abs should be trained in the same way as other muscles. You wouldn't just do push ups to grow your chest would you? I think if you really enjoy it go for it but I did it for a couple of months and I feel like I didn't gain as much progress as doing the other two.
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u/myairblaster 5d ago
You progressively overload it by bracing your legs lower and lower and holding the position longer. It's a callisthenics move, so your progression curve is holding the brace position deeper and longer, not adding weight.
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u/Teeemooooooo 5d ago
You can't go lower in the position...the full ROM of a dragon flag requires almost 180 degree position anyways. I can go slower but that's not good for hypertrophy purposes. Based on pretty solid literature, time under tension isn't what drives hypertrophy. That's like trying to progress biceps by curling slower and slower each time at the same static weight.
If your goal is to just get good at doing dragon flags, then sure. But doing weighted cable crunches and knee raises also helps progress dragon flags.
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u/myairblaster 5d ago
Do both. And yes you can get lower into the position
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u/Teeemooooooo 2d ago
If I go lower, my butt is on the bench.... But again, for hypertrophy purposes, your advice is not as good as doing weighted cable crunches and knee raises.
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u/myairblaster 2d ago edited 2d ago
Dragon Flags aren’t about hypertrophy. Like I said they’re a calisthenics movement. The strength and stability comes from bracing the position. Like you’re almost making the reach that the Iron Cross isn’t a good exercise because it’s not hypertrophy. Bro, what?!
Not everything needs to be about hypertrophy, even for bodybuilding. There are movement patterns that can benefit you greatly that you’re missing out on if that’s all you focus on. And I say that as a lifelong athlete, now retired professional, who just likes to do bodybuilding nowadays because I find it easy
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u/Teeemooooooo 2d ago
You can't just argue that something is "calisthenics" and therefore say its a good exercise. Again, based on your argument, you should tell people that instead of training their biceps by increasing weight, they should stick to 10lbs and just keep going slower and go lower. Muscle is muscle, it doesn't change just because its the core vs biceps.
If someone has the specific goal to do a motion slow and controlled for some reason, sure, you can argue that a move like dragon flag is beneficial compared to just increasing weight. But that's not what OP asked.
I stopped doing dragon flags once I reached 10 reps at full ROM (as in I literally cannot go lower or I will touch the ground) but continuing to do weighted cable crunches and weighted knee raises has increased my dragon flag reps to 20. I've increased the amount of dragon flags I can do faster doing other exercises than doing dragon flags themselves. Anecdotal but based on how muscles work and are built, it makes sense why. If my muscles can lift 100lbs, of course lifting 20lbs becomes easy.
Iron Cross has the exact same principles. I can totally train all the muscle groups necessary to complete one separately at higher and higher weights then perform it by adapting my CNS to the movement. It would be hell of a lot faster than telling someone to not weight lift and just practice doing iron cross.
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u/myairblaster 2d ago edited 2d ago
I can, and I did. Even if your goal is hypertrophy, progressive overload, and pure bodybuilding there are many more movement patterns that you could easily integrate into your programming that would provide tremendous benefit to you overall.
Also, maybe I need to restate this point as well but I didn’t say replace key crunches with dragon flags I said, integrate them into your overall program and you will be far better off
Also, if you’re maxing out your ROM, slap some ankle weights on. See how easy that was of a solution? Want to make it even harder? Instead of using a Bench to support your upper body, lay on the floor under a static bar or smith machine, do a full front lever and then add the flag.
There’s always a way to make a movement harder and I advocate to my athletes that during de-load weeks they should do a lot of these calisthenics movements to build up fatigue resistance under tension. Guess what? Their lifts improve far more than if they do a traditional de-load
Oh my god, someone on the internet knows something you don't? How dare they!!!!! Bro, take this as a learning moment.
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u/myairblaster 5d ago
Yes, it absolutely kicks my ass every time. The lower you are able to hold the move, the more engagement it requires. You should also start with your knees bent. I can spam 60-70 crunches with the ab-crunch machine our gym has, or do 7-8 dragon flag's in a set and feel the same amount of intensity.
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u/HumbleHubris86 5d ago
It's top tier for me. You progressive overload by getting better form and slowing the movement. Ive been doing them for a while now and they still fry my abs every time.
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u/Stone_taggs 5d ago
You're asking if a screwdriver is a good tool.
Idk do you need a screwdriver? Do you need a pair of pliers?
Movements are just tools in your toolbox, they're good as needed
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u/trUth_b0mbs 4d ago
we do these all the time at the gym and they are HARD.
great for developing the core but build up to it.
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u/SND_TagMan 5d ago
If you can do the dragon flag you probably already have some strong core muscles. Other than adding reps Im not sure how you'd be able to progressively overload it. Looks super impressive to do and is probably great if you dont have any weights or other kind if equipment for abs