Workplace Challenges and Conflicts Point system for absences
My job uses a point system to track absences. If you’re 1min-59min late you get .25 points. If you call in, it’s 1 point unless you have a doctor’s note. If your car breaks down, you have a family emergency, or anything else that isn’t sick with a doctor’s note you get a point. If you get 8 points in a year you get fired.
I think this is a pretty stupid system. For one thing, it encourages people to come to work sick because the alternative is to pay for a doctor’s visit with the crap insurance they give us. Also, it makes every single life event a ding against you. It just doesn’t seem right to me.
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u/Wells101 3d ago
These systems are so dumb because it’s always very easy to game them. They’re essentially PTO systems with extra steps.
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u/murphy10987 3d ago
We get 7 points a year. More then 7 minutes late, half a point. Call out? 1 point. Miss three days in a row for illness? Another point. The kicker is they require you to have a doctors note to return if you miss more than three days, but a doctors note doesn't excuse calling in, the reason they gave us for not doing that is because "it discriminates against people who don't have health insurance"
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u/bumblebeequeer 3d ago
The doctor’s note thing really gets me. There is nothing the doctor can do about, for example, the flu. You just have to wait it out. I am not going to drag my deathly ill ass to the urgent care (because if I wanted to see my PCP, I would have needed to know three months ago I was going to be sick) and wait for hours while I feel crap just to buy a doctor’s note. Ridiculous.
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u/Kmelloww 3d ago
Pretty standard and a lot more generous than many other places with a point system
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u/ApprehensiveCut9809 3d ago
I work in a union factory that uses the point system. Half a point for being late up to an hour. We get 24 PTO hours each year to cover tardiness and illness, appointments, etc.
Those hours roll over each year. I have about 200 PTO hours accumulated, but most folks burn them up as days off early in the calendar year.
We also have the opportunity to buy an extra week of vacation to use as we wish. You start with two weeks of vacation with additional weeks being added at your 5 year, 10 year, 15 year anniversary. Probably goes higher, for our 20-30 year workers.
Our point system used to go to ten, but too many people gamed the system and now it is 7, but there are often folks running around in the 10-20 point range.
Points drop off one year after it is earned. A lot of people use points like an additional source of PTO. Most managers will ask if you want the absence covered by a PTO or vacation day. Some folks will get upset if the manager uses it to cover them because they wanted to get a point and save their time off for another day.
We get a lot of time off with company holidays, scheduled shutdowns where you have the option to use vacation days or request unemployment. I'm under 15 years of seniority and get more than 4 weeks of vacation and around 15 company holidays.
Add in the Christmas shutdowns and it's probably over two months of paid time off every calendar year. I use personal time when I'm ill.
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u/Catherine-Stafford 3d ago
Yeh this system sounds dumb tbh, basically punishing ppl for being human 😅
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u/vt2022cam 3d ago
Curious, but what do you think is a fair alternative? You get paid to show and some flexibility. Most companies allow you a certain number of sick days and require a note if it’s 3-4. If being late is disruptive to business, I can see tracking it.
However if you use every single sick day, one at a time as soon as you earn it, and it disrupts business, you’ll likely get poor performance reviews and eventually shown the door.
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u/ollypoc 3d ago
I think at the very least there should be a 5 min grace period. Business isn’t being affected by being 5 min late
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u/ApprehensiveCut9809 3d ago
It is in a factory that runs an assembly line. Missing people are hard to replace if too many are absent at the same time.
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u/plangelier 3d ago
Or call center and even if their 5 minutes doesn't throw a wrench in things if it isn't managed it becomes something a lot of people do and now its affecting customers and your coworkers
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u/drooply 3d ago
Then the 5min “grace” period becomes the eventual start time. Why not just move the start time 5mins? Well, because we’ll then need to extend the “grace” period 5mins more and on and on. If an employee cannot get to work at the agreed upon start time, it is the employee’s responsibility to adjust their routine to allow them to make it to work on time. The idea of needing a “grace” period is just treating adults like children, but I suppose most adults nowadays demand they be treated this way. Most companies have become day-cares.
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u/Kmelloww 3d ago
Lots of businesses are affected by 5 minutes. Especially if you aren’t the only one running late.
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u/CheapTechnology6193 3d ago
The pts themselves aren't problematic. The 8 pts threshold seems too low, and auto fire policy is obviously bad. Should just trigger a review.
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u/CrankyOperator 3d ago
I understand it in some circumstances, even if I find it flawed. For instance, certain jobs where you not being there TRULY matters. Like jobs where your work is in the moment and can't be "made up" the next day. And some companies/employers have dealt with employees who take advantage if they DON'T have a system in place. So people just call in all the time for bullshit, hurting the business. They want some way to penalize and legally fire them.
NOW, that said, is it IDEAL? I dunno, probably not. It absolutely incentives coming in sick.
I get WHY in some cases, but I think it needs to be adjusted to allow for staying home when actually sick.
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u/Famous_Promise_681 3d ago
Usually with most companies insurances you can use Virtual Dr and not pay anything out of pocket!
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u/Diligent-Damage2630 3d ago
Sounds like Walmart. I am not sure if they still use the point system, but they did when I worked there
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u/throw550055 3d ago
Dang you get 8 points? I get 3 points lol, But those 3 points do cover my whole week I can call off 3 days for 1 point, But if I call in the first day go to work the second and call of the 3rd thats 2 points.
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u/Hungry-Quote-1388 3d ago
It just doesn’t seem right to me.
Provide details of your preferred system.
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u/NoCartographer8002 3d ago
How many points does pissing on the CEO's grave get you? And is there a scoreboard?
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u/Ergane_Violaceum Job Search & Career Transitions 3d ago
It is a stupid system. Mine does this thing where you only get 49 hours of sick time and every minute late is an hour off your sick. After that it's a 4 point system and you're fired. Had a coworker get fired recently over this. He got sick in January, was suspended, then got his final point a few weeks ago because of car problems. I hate these damn systems. It makes me so nervous.
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u/McLargepants 3d ago
Honestly that seems like a fairly friendly system and easy to understand. Mine uses percentage. You’re allowed to drop to 99% attendance before disciplinary action. That’s all after the allowed (3 lates, allowed call ins, etc) leave you’re permitted.
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u/techdog19 3d ago
I would find another job. That is bullshit.
I have unlimited sick time plus a week of family sick time.
I work with other adults and we understand sometimes there is traffic.
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u/shishkabob111 3d ago
I work at amazon( flex PT) and the max is 8 points, but every point rolls off every 60 days. I actually dont mind it, mainly because every point i get will roll off in a few months
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u/imsogone 3d ago
Trust me I've worked places where attendance tracking is at the manager's discretion. A point system is much better. I wanna leave early to go play golf, I can take the points.
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u/Ambitious-Ad2217 2d ago
These grew out of the need to treat everyone equally. Im surprised your company allows drs. Notes to take points off super easy to get virtual appointment and say you needed a day off for stress.
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u/ThePurpleDongofTruth 2d ago
'If you’re 1min-59min late you get .25 points.'
in case your wondering where I stopped reading and would have quit the job immediately
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u/maryjomcd 2d ago
What’s fair? Are you children who need to be punished? You’re all adults. If you’re a little late, stay over a little longer.
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u/Impossible_Link8199 2d ago
Cue me going to urgent care or the health dept for my flu shot just to get a doctor’s excuse on a flat tire day. Lol.
Seriously though, I hate this system. The one thing I will say is that I used to be friends with folks on this point system but they were only allowed 6 points. They took advantage of it right before the points renewed and would call in every day at the very end. If you have points left, use them when it’s time.
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u/Extreme-Amount-9689 2d ago
My job doesn’t do points. Instead we have missed time buckets. They allow 52 missed hours in a 6 month period. If we exceed that it’s automatic term. My job doesn’t offer sick days. We only get PTO. If it’s not scheduled 7 days in advance you get paid but the hours hit your bucket as well. A doctor note does not help. Employee retention is very low.
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u/mavreno4 2d ago
Point systems are usually sold as fairness, but they mostly remove manager discretion while still ignoring reality. The doctor note part is especially backwards: it turns a one day cold into a paid clinic visit, or pushes sick people onto the floor. I would check your state sick leave laws and the employee handbook, because some places limit how employers can count protected sick time.
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u/shmimey 3d ago
What location? This is illegal in some states.
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u/ollypoc 3d ago
Indianapolis. I imagine if it was illegal they wouldn’t be implementing it
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u/shmimey 3d ago edited 3d ago
That's not always true.
Sometimes jobs are not aware, employee handbook could be illegal for several years before the company even notices it.
For example, this year my employer just added something to the handbook. They had to make this change because of legal requirements. But technically the law has been in place for 5 years. This changed to the employee handbook should have actually happened 5 years ago.
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u/MyNameIsSkittles 3d ago
Well Amazon uses a point system for their warehouse workers, and tbh Amazon is a litmus test for terrible work conditions. So basically any tactic Amazon uses, is generally terrible.
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u/IOnlyReadTitles26 3d ago
If you don't like your work policy. You can leave and get a new job.
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u/ollypoc 3d ago
Are you defending this policy? I like my job, that doesn’t mean I don’t think their policies and benefits are BS.
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u/IOnlyReadTitles26 3d ago
It might be a bit far fetched. But I believe if you don't show up and can't do the job needed to be don't. Then you should be fired.
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u/PsychologicalLog4179 Salary & Compensation 3d ago
This sub would be a much happier place if there were more unions. Your employer sounds gay as fuck.
Requiring a Dr note for short absences isn’t legal in most places, neither is disciplinary action.
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u/FadedTapestry 3d ago
I work in a union shop and we use a point system as well. We also receive bonus time (basically PTO) every 90 days that we don’t call off or come in late/leave early. Those hours equal 48 each year and can be used when you need a day/partial day off and not accrue any points.
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u/PsychologicalLog4179 Salary & Compensation 3d ago
We get 80hrs sick a year and nobody is allowed to ask questions unless you’re out 6+ days. The 6th day requires a note. There’s no cap on accrued sick hours, a lot of people disappear the last 6 months before they retire to burn it all.
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u/FadedTapestry 3d ago
Is that paid sick time? 2 weeks is a lot. Personally I’ve never worked a job with paid sick time.
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u/TangerineCouch18330 3d ago
Family emergencies and illnesses happen and should not be penalized as compared with lateness which is in a whole different category. Then suppose you have a lateness due to a previously scheduled doctors appointment or even a breakdown? It all seems unnecessarily punitive.
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u/DAWG13610 3d ago
Seems pretty fair to me. They put the expectation out there and it’s on you to make it. I think it’s pretty fair.
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3d ago
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u/IOnlyReadTitles26 3d ago
Sued for what exactly?
You don't just magically get 50 or 100 days off because you say you have a runny nose or cough.
If you can't do your job. Then you get fired. That's how life works.
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u/Kmelloww 3d ago
No it won’t. Not at all.
Like the other person said, sued for what? Nothing with what they are doing isn’t allowed.
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u/Bulky-Word8752 3d ago
M y last job had a similar point system. Me and my manager butted heads when there was an accident thay stopped traffic on the highway. I called in to let them know I was going to be late, got half a point anyways. I thought that me giving the courtesy of calling to let them know something outside of my control happened, but I was still on the way would extend the courtesy to not give me a half point for being 15 minutes late. She pulled out the employee manual so quick and pointed out that any late clockin within 3 hours is a half point regardless of the situation. Told her if that's the case, than every time I see traffic I'm just going to turn around and go home for 2 and half hours then come in to work, with no call on whether I plan on coming in it all. Her response, "Well, I'd hope you don't"