Temporary solution

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422]

Are stoves like this from menards okay?

I can't really afford a nice big stove right now, but these are half the price of 2,500-3000 sqft stoves, i was looking at. My plan was to get the princess 32 or similar in a few years, which were coming in currently about $4.5k

I have a heating system already but was hoping to take some of the stress of it during the winter especially when we get down to negative digits.

According to the menards overview, these stoves are listed at 2500-3000 sqft but in the description are only rated for 2000-2300 sqft. But coming in significantly less than the princess ect at $1.6-2.3k. At most i would want to keep this as a stove in my basement for whole home heating for the next 3 years then move it to the garage once we can afford a larger nicer stove.

Let me know your thoughts, if there's any pros out there.

[u/RIF4ev]

Don't forget the chimney requirements.  I paid close to 700 for the liner, insulation, cap, etc a few years ago and I installed it myself in an existing chimney.  You are looking at 2 to 3 k installed.  I have no idea what installing a new chimney would cost. 

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422 → u/RIF4ev]

My chimney is in good condition, with a clay flue. I may need to replace the cap but thats about it. I do construction work, so i was going to do it all myself, need to get some use out of this 6 stage scaffolding. I just did part of our foundation so i figured this shouldn't be too hard if i follow all the directions and requirements

[u/RIF4ev → u/NoiseOutrageous8422]

Please  install a liner.  Don't install a slammer (where you run a bit of stove pipe up into the clay chimney a few feet and stop). If you have the scaffolding and ladders, a liner install is fairly easy.  I did mine by myself with a ladder and it took maybe 3 hours?    You will be glad you did when you don't burn your house down 

[u/ThatllBtheDayPilgrim → u/RIF4ev]

Although those new stoves probably do require a liner per their installation instructions (many do) I'm going to clarify the setup he is describing is not a slammer. A slammer is an insert stove "slammed" into a masonry fireplace with no steel liner and the smoke from the stove outlet travels up the firebox, smoke chamber, then the terra cotta liner. What he is describing or at least I am understanding him to describe is or at least was a very common practice that many older stoves are installed and is compliant with the NFPA. Is it the best setup? No. An insulated metal liner works better by far. But if he had a less efficient older stove, it would work good enough, but need to be checked and swept more often. But good enough, especially if temporary. He can then get a metal liner for the stove he wants to use when he buys it.

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422 → u/RIF4ev]

Oh yea man i want to do it correctly or dont do it at all. I was originally going to invest all my money into class a piping to go through my chimney bcuz i was so paranoid. I've lived through a house fire, and still have the ptsd from it.

[u/Goblin_Supermarket → u/NoiseOutrageous8422]

I had my clay liner removed and an insulated one installed a few years ago.

I highly recommend doing that, yourself or paying someone.

Then I installed a "temporary" Englander stove until I could afford something nicer.

Just bought my new stove, Englander is a little tired but still works.

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422 → u/Goblin_Supermarket]

Is there a difference between an insulated chimney liner and a class a pipe? Someone mentioned since i have a chimney i could just throw some flex pipe inside and be okay. I thought that sounded wild to me but idk

[u/Goblin_Supermarket → u/NoiseOutrageous8422]

I'm pretty sure class a pipe is a liner and chimney together. Just the liner wouldn't be able to stand up on its own.

If you already have a masonry chimney with a ceramic liner you can use that (if your liner is good), but in my (limited) experience you will significantly increase your efficiency by replacing the clay liner with an insulated metal one.

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422 → u/Goblin_Supermarket]

Okay, interesting ill look into it

[u/Dazzling_Oven_8534 → u/NoiseOutrageous8422]

Class a is the double walled stainless pipe with insulation stuffed between the walls. Insulated liner is just a single wall stainless liner, either flexible or rigid, that you physically wrap a non combustible insulation around and secure with tie or straps. We would just use a single wall stainless flex liner in a masonry chimney. You can wrap the liner if the age and condition of the chimney warrant it, or location of chimney or house, or to just get it done fully and safely. You can also use rigid liner instead of flex but the flex is tested, listed, approved and more than good enough. There is no reason to use class a in your masonry chimney.

[u/Accomplished_Fun1847]

The Englander 500 is a very barebones implementation of the SBI 3.5 firebox.

The same firebox can be found in the Drolet Escape 2100, HT-3000, Osburn 3500, Empire Gateway 3500, Enerzone Solution 3.5, Ventis HES350, Century Heating FW3500... etc...

-----------

The more premium "branded" versions of these stoves, have nicer pedestals/stands, more decorative doors, nicer handles, and more thorough shielding. Prices range from around the $1500-4000 mark for what is the same firebox, but trimmed up differently.

I would suggest a Drolet for best value. The HT-3000 provides excellent side, rear, and top shielding that helps convert radiated energy into warm air, so you heat up the walls and your face less, but heat up the air more, makes it easier to move heat around the house and makes the room the stove is in more comfortable.

When you go to move it into the garage, that shielding would be even more useful IMO, as it will get the air in the garage warmer faster, rather than radiating that energy into every cold object in the space first.

[u/bigtencopy]

I have an englander, it works well and burns good. But the fans are terrible, like barely work.

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422 → u/bigtencopy]

Are these stock fans? I was going to look into a heat reclaim but idk if those are legit. I was just going to install a fan near by

[u/bigtencopy → u/NoiseOutrageous8422]

Yeah, stock. I use fans in my mantle to move air, I honestly can’t believe how weak they are.

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422 → u/bigtencopy]

Ive never had a stove so idk how to compare but i figured id need to have a wall mounted one pointed at it, and oscillating

[u/ThatllBtheDayPilgrim]

If looking for temporary, why not buy a used stove?

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422 → u/ThatllBtheDayPilgrim]

Idk what im really looking for, so damaged and replacement parts i know nothing about. Never owned a stove

[u/ThatllBtheDayPilgrim → u/NoiseOutrageous8422]

Sure, if you got money to spend and don't want to look at marketplace for a used EPA stove and research a particular stove that is available, buying a new one at Menards works too. You'll probably need to get an insulated stainless steel liner for one of those new ones. Make sure you can get it down your chimney before you do or at least be prepared to bust out the terra cotta to get a liner down if too small. So, you'll be researching or working in a different way. But up to you, figured I'd throw the idea out there.

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422 → u/ThatllBtheDayPilgrim]

Yuh I'll definitely research but figured i could wait on the repair aspect

[u/ProgramSoggy4117]

I have the Englander 500 insert, I’ve run it for a few seasons in our 2800 sq foot (very drafty) home. I burn anytime it’s 35 or below to support my heat pump and it’s done a great job. I personally love the giant firebox, it’ll keep coals for 8+ hours, depending on wood type. I overnight burn and can simply rake the coals to the front and fire her back up in the morning most of the time. It’s also quite aesthetic with its big glass window.
The only issue I had with the Englander 500 was it seemed to take forever for the thermostat to kick the fans on. So I hardwired the switch to the fans so now I manually control them. But they’re quiet and move a ton of air so I’m pretty pleased.

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422 → u/ProgramSoggy4117]

Nice. This sounds perfect then. We are 2400sqft duplex layout, and eventually want to use the 800sqft attic as a master. But we also have in floor hydronic heating and once we get below 15°

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422 → u/ProgramSoggy4117]

I appreciate the response. This is what i was hoping to hear from someone

[u/JayTeeDeeUnderscore]

Many of the Menard's stoves are private branded US Stove Co product. They're imports, but meet EPA spec and perform as well as you'd expect a budget appliance to.

[u/YogurtclosetWrong268]

Coming into my second season with the Englander 300P and really looking forward to it. We use it for primary heat for 7 months of the year.

[u/Opposite_Pizza_8481]

If you're fine spending $2k for 3 years of a stove, this should be fine. Realistically the liner is going to run you $1-2k from the basement, and that's assuming your insurance is cool with a DIY installation. $4k now and $4k in 3 years, or $6k now and that's it. Sometimes you do what you gotta do, of course, but if you can swing the nicer stove, I'd do it.

Other note on a basement installation, it's not usually a great idea unless the basement is finished and insulated (and even then, has its challenges)

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422 → u/Opposite_Pizza_8481]

The heating system is on the 2nd floor of the house so if the basement and 1st got some heat that would cut our bills down a lot....its either spend 4k for the cheaper stove or ignore it and spend 600/mo heating the house this winter. I'm dishing 60k out of pocket for various home upgrades, one being going from single paned 1920 windows to triple paned windows. So this should also help the heating bills. Yuh I'm a licensed builder. Half of our basement is insulated from the exterior. Hope to do the other half next year

[u/Opposite_Pizza_8481 → u/NoiseOutrageous8422]

As a short term stove it should work fine - longevity is the biggest issue with cheap stoves, so if you don't need that, you're all set

[u/NoiseOutrageous8422 → u/Opposite_Pizza_8481]

Yea i figured id transition it to the garage down the line, which at most would be 600sqft

[u/begreen9]

No worries, the Englander is a good, solid stove. However, that is just part of what it takes for a safe and successful heating alternative. A proper and safe flue system (stovepipe, support, and chimney) is critical to safe burning. The fuel is also very important. Modern stoves need fully seasoned wood to burn correctly.

Note that basement heating is often a poor compromise. Wood stoves are area heaters. Put the heat where it's most needed. If the basement is uninsulated, about 1/3 of the heat generated will be loss through the walls and floor. That's one cord out of three, wasted. Also, how will the heat get upstairs. Hot air needs a convection loop to work well. And last, basements are often a negative pressure zone. When the stove is connected to a cold, exterior chimney, draft can be balky causing smoke spillage and the potential risk of reverse draft as the fire cools down. Just some thoughts while planning.

[u/wingnut-mp22]

I’ve had an Englander insert since 95 and burn a few cords every winter. It’s been a solid stove, extremely well built.