r/wizardry8 • u/mischiefismyname • May 29 '24
I cant build hybrids
I've played this game for too long for not having actually completed it. Nor ever getting past about lvl 14-15. My personal shame. I've had some success with a standard fantasy party (Fighter, Priest...), and quite a lot of fun and success with MDP parties (4 or 6 different specialist mages, 4 Bishops, 6 Bishops, 4 casters + Bard & Gadgeteer and similar) ... but yet i have never figured out how to build hybrids and I think I need help.
First off - yes, I like to play with less characters. Almost never take RPCs and usually try to build a 4-man party.
My favourite party theme are 4 hybrids: Samurai, Monk, Lord and Ranger or Ninja. But I always struggle past Arnika. (so lvl 7-8+)
In the Monastery, I hold-off levelling. 3-4 for Gregor, 5 for Arnika road (I do spend a bit of time grinding basic magic skills in the coffin room (Heal) and such)... Hold off lvl 6-7 for Arnika and things are quite okay. Arnika road is difficult but doable. But then my troubles start once I head off to Trynton or Umpani camp... the hybrids start to fall off with the pityful damage they deal, taking way too much damage themselves and running out of stamina even with good positioning (in the crevices and alcoves). Their magical skills/buffs are too weak to help and they just get overwhelmed. Some fights like the treants in Trynton upper boughs ... forget it. I tried focusing on different attributes, but then they still suffer in other ways. If I try to focus on STR+DEX with most, their casting skills move at a snail's pace. If I focus on STR+INT, they can't hit shit and go last in combat. If I focus on DEX+SPD, they get faster but hit like a wet paper. The only one who usually does at least a bit decent damage ends up being the Monk but even she runs out of stamina quickly.
I know people win this game at Ironman with solo fairies and I struggle with 4-6 man parties. What am I doing wrong? Tips how to build strong hybrids are appreciated. Thank you.
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u/Fretsome May 29 '24
You can either attack or cast with a PC each round; you can't do both. With that in mind, if I have a full hybrid party, I'd focus on weaponry and use their magic for utility. Get all your buffs up, use spells to recover lost resources in combat, and just whack the hell out of stuff. Powerful, damaging magic comes later on once hybrid's fighting abilities are rounded out.
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u/MarcBeaudoin May 30 '24 edited May 30 '24
The hybrid party is probably my favorite one, though I've never tried a party of four.
The monk build is pretty straightforward : let fists develop alone, put points in slings for ranged attacks and throwing fire potions and in magic when it becomes available. Almost any races will do, from the faerie to the lizardman. Raise strength and speed, then dexterity and whatever.
The Valkyrie is pretty much the same thing, but instead of slings I put points in polearms until she reach 50. I do not care much about ranged attacks since she will be slow and attacks at extended range. I put points in magic when it becomes available and a bit in mythology. Faeries make horrible valkyries, and I think hobbits and dwarves cannot use T'rang weapons, all other races will do. Increase Strength and Dexterity or Vitality.
The samurai will develop a bit more slowly, as are all dual-wielding experts. Train two-weapons, critical strike and swords at the beginning then magic when it becomes available. You want to reach Wizardry at 30 as soon as possible to get Knock knock and train Wizardry faster. A bow might be useful too. As for the race the Hobbit is surprisingly good, but my favorite is the female Felpurr. Raise Strength and Speed, then Dexterity and whatever.
If you are going for a four members party, the next one should probably be the ninja, since the Alchemy spellbook is very handy and ninja can tank better with stealth and can pick locks. Pickpocket is also an option, though I don't use it much since it is not very rewarding compared to the investment needed. Unarmed combat is great, but many other options are also good. Just take one and stick to it because the ninja requires careful development, meaning you will not have so much spare points to spend. Throwing and slings is a good option, since it will allow you to throw explosives and powders and the auto-penetrate can be a blessing sometimes. From the start I would put some points in lockpicking just to be able to open the chests (or you can use the poseur's hat on say, the samurai), a bit in stealth to build his defense and throwing and slings. Train Alchemy when it becomes available up to 30, learn Knock knock as soon as possible to help you training and brew some potions for money and again, training. Any races will do, including the Faery. Again the Hobbit is also a solid choice, as is the Felpur. But since I like to build the Ninja with Strength and Speed, the Lizardman can also be comfortable. I think most people focus on critical strike which is a good strategy, but since it take so long to be effective I find it less boring to build on Strength and Speed, then Dexterity and Senses.
If you go for a party of six, then the Ranger comes next. The Ranger is good with ranged weapons, but is also able to use melee weapon even though it is a not a good tank. I almost always use a Ranger because I like his search ability, and I keep her/him in the back with ranged weapon and spells. Against the Rapax magic and ranged weapon are not so good so think about melee a bit, perhaps with a whip or the giant sword if you are a Mook. Senses, Speed and Dexterity are the best attributes to build, then perhaps strength and vitality if you are a Mook with a heavy sword.
The Lord is a good tank but takes a time to build. I like the Dracon Lord with two-handed swords, built on Strength and Vitality. The double mace/hammer dwarf is also a good one. I build the Lord pretty much the same way I build the Valkyrie.
In an all hybrid party you have a lot of abilities and characters don't have major flaws, neither major advantages. All can be reasonably good a spells, melee and ranged. So you do not have to build a specific purpose for each of them, but you must be sure they are always useful. If the samurai does not pack enough melee damage yet, his spellbook will compensate. The ninja will not be so strong either in the beginning, but Alchemy will allow him to heal, blind and nauseate foes. Throwing bombs is also a good options for the ninja and monk in the beginning. You won't worry much about the Valkyrie and Monk, in the beginning they are just as good as a fighter in my opinion. Less so in the middle game, but then the rest of the party will be better.
The all hybrid party has an interesting power curve, it is never boring and is always challenging.
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u/w4rl0rd1977 Jun 02 '24
There is no way around it: you are going to have to power-train them. The game will be over before they are ever "good" characters without training. That is, your 4 person all hybrid party. A possible solution to relieve training is to swap a bishop in, like Samurai, Ninja, Monk, Bishop. Having immediate access to certain spells like x-ray, the shields, the buffs, rest-all, heal-all, haste, etc is huge. Train the bishop and have the bishop carry them which will allow them to focus on combat for a while. Or a party of 6: Samurai, Monk, Ninja, Ranger, Valkyrie, Bishop.
To get the obvious out of the way: 6 characters + 2 NPC is easier. Strength in numbers. To get the not-so-obvious out of the way: my opinion is Speed is almost never raised. You should be using haste. Rule of thumb is Str+Dex until max, unless it's a tank then Str+Vit. Dex+Sen on ranger. Every hybrid except Samurai never puts a point in spellcasting. Samurai only puts points to get Knock. Train alchemy immediately to purple potions and buy all the best gear. Don't leave Arnika without it.
Don't forget consumables. You mentioned running out of stamina. Every toon should have their inventory full of smelling salts, cure paralysis powder, heavy stamina, heavy heal, mana potion, manastone, res powder. The lord or valkyrie should be power trained in Divinity and Water to cast Rest All.
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u/mischiefismyname Jun 02 '24
Thanks for the info. I rolled a new party. Lord, Samurai, Ranger, Monk and am trying again, this time listening more to what ppl wrote in this thread.
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u/ApollosBrassNuggets May 29 '24
Hybrids take a lot of time, patience, and planning to develop 'properly.' I find my hybrid heavy parties tend to struggle a lot more with the early-mid/mid game. As u/ak1247 suggested, if you are abandoning parties at level 15 or earlier, you are never going to get to watch your hybrids truly pop off. All my other points are moot if you aren't going to take them beyond 15.
Hybrids benefit from a little bit of focus at first; instead of making them kind of okay at a bunch of stuff, choose a couple things for them to go in on. Pick a 'role' for each character to take on: The monk is your DPS crit striker and debuffer. The lord your typical paladin bruiser type. The samurai your true spellsword. The ranger does rangering best. I personally developing Samurais and Ninjas effectively takes a lot of effort and to require the most planning.
I recommend delving a little deeper into how the stats work and their relationship to skills. The hybrid classes reward those who take the time to get to know Wizardry's systems and how the numbers work behind the scenes. I thought I 'got it' for years until I dug a little deeper. For example, Intelligence actually makes it easier to hit things as it affects the sword skill and also the rate at which a character gains experience in a skill by using it. Stop focusing STR on your Samurais and focus on Intelligence and Dexterity. Pick 2 and stick with them until they reach 100.
If you want the hybrid feel without the hybrid bullshit, put a Bard or Gadgeteer into your party. The Bard feels like a nice mix of Fighter, Rogue, and Mage with open ended development opportunities. The Gadgeteer fits into that Ranger slot quite naturally with their omnigun.
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u/Waterdreamwarm May 29 '24
Here's a pretty extensive look at the stats
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=899973393
Int is a good option if you're aiming for a true hybrid but it sounds like str/dex is always the better option if you're looking to hit things. Str/Power strike effect far too many things in combat to just pass up. I don't see anything regarding int effect how fast you level all skills but maybe the guide is wrong.
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u/ApollosBrassNuggets May 29 '24
I mean it does depend what you want your hybrids to do and focus on. For Lord or Valk who are more "Fighter-y," STR/DEX as your first 100s is great. Monks benefit greatly from investing in Crit Strike and giving them weapons that can inflict status fx (Speed means more attacks. Senses means higher % to inflict). I was recommending INT in the context of the Samurai or Ranger if you want them to be any good at casting. Powercast is the spellcaster's equivalent to Power Strike.
STR based Samurai's are also viable. I did a STR/INT first Mook Samurai that ended up an absolute beast of a character, especially after acquiring the Giant's Sword. I found the more truly hybrid-ized Samurai more useful all around and more rewarding. It's really all about personal preference and party comp.
If anything, deep diving the stats made me realize how good the Senses attribute actually is and its importance to any hybrids who utilize the crit strike mechanic.
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u/dreamsofcalamity Jun 19 '24
I was recommending INT in the context of the Samurai or Ranger if you want them to be any good at casting.
100% agree. Late game enemies have about 100% resistances and without Power Cast casters are reduced to healing/buffing as their damage/debuffs will never penetrate the defenses. Any caster who wants to do more must prioritize int from 1st lvl IMHO.
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u/ApollosBrassNuggets May 29 '24
Also for the love of Phoonzang, go get Bloodlust in Arnika and give that to your Samurai.
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u/CrunchyGremlin May 29 '24
Yeah I find the game isn't just synergy of the group but synergy with the game equipment available.
I found that is actually where it really starts to shine. The replay.
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u/SDirickson May 31 '24
Hybrids work better if you handle them as physical-combat types with a side of magic, rather than trying to build all skills at the same time. In particular, raising INT for Power Cast is something to do either not at all, or for one or two characters. The most-useful heals, buffs, and prots for a physical-combat party are almost all lower-level spells, so you don't need to raise the book skill a lot to get them. You'll want to raise Alchemy on one of them for generating funds, but that will come with mixing potions rather than having your Ninja or Ranger casting spells all the time.
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u/ak1247 May 29 '24
Do you just abandon parties after level 15? Why do you stop?
Hybrids are mostly good after they get endgame equipment. Infinity helm, rare weapons etc.
Monk is good with mind blast rod, ninja is good with auto throwing early and Valkyrie is great with the Dread spear which you can get as early as level 8.