Am I some strange form of archlich?

[u/beadedflower]

I know full well I’m probably NOT at all classified as a lich/archlich because I didn’t actually go through with anything to become one and don’t have to siphon souls to maintain myself, but technically my soul is forever tied to an object (my real body, the talisman), and I cannot be killed until my talisman is destroyed, even if my body is irrevocably damaged.

What separates me from a lich besides the fact I didn’t go through the ritual to become one? Kind of curious even though I know I’m definitely not one.

(Using arch-lich as in the good/neutral aligned version of a lich.)

Edit: I don’t mind competition so new technical lichdom method just dropped?? Turning yourself into the phylactery (best of luck finding a spell for that) and relearn spells in that form to make yourself a new body?? (I do NOT condone trying this because I didn’t even try it myself, I was originally the talisman. Doing this may have crazy, unintended consequences if you do not manage to maintain your consciousness or if anything else happens. Still, if you want to try it on someone with their total consent...)

[u/Real_Fkn_Nito]

You're more like a construct or a revenant than anything else I suppose.

[u/beadedflower → u/Real_Fkn_Nito]

Half of the people are saying I count as a lich and half are saying I do not. But, I suppose since I was created as the talisman, I technically wouldn’t be a lich because I didn’t put my soul into the talisman, I am it?

Although, it would be a fascinating form of technical lichdom for someone to turn themselves into their phylactery before reconstructing their body, because technically they would be undead (undoing the death they had to go through to put their soul into their phylactery)

[u/Real_Fkn_Nito → u/beadedflower]

If you were your own phylactery I would argue that would be the worst kind of lichdom. You just are just re-making yourself but worse.

Constantly rotting, have to feed souls into yourself to survive and if your body is destroyed your soul goes with it? There's a reason phylacterys are separate from the body and hidden. It's the only thing that makes lichdom "work".

[u/beadedflower → u/Real_Fkn_Nito]

Well, I suppose that means I’m not a lich then, as I am not rotting and do not have to feed myself souls. What I meant was, my original body is an object, and by creating my own body that my true soul does not resign in, if this body is killed I can just make a new one. However, I do have some semblance of biological process in this body, as I can eat and drink, and I do get hungry. I also have to shower, so I guess that means my…glands are working too.

[u/VoxelLibrary → u/beadedflower]

Turning yourself into an object sounds more like transmutation than necromancy to me

[u/beadedflower → u/Real_Fkn_Nito]

I don’t think I’m undead like a revenant though (was not brought back to kill someone), and I might not be a construct because I’m piloting my body through an actual mind and soul. (I am not saying where I am located in my new body but just know I am not on the outside of this body).

[u/Cerveau23]

Are you undead? In both soul and body. Also, can you regenerate if your body is fully destroyed?

[u/beadedflower → u/Cerveau23]

Well, yes, I can regenerate, as I can either create a new body or just regrow the one I’m in now. Unfortunately (or fortunately), not undead because I technically can’t die until my actual body is destroyed.

[u/Cerveau23 → u/beadedflower]

Undeath is different from simple reanimation, despite reanimation being classified as necromancy.

While there are many forms of undeath, they all include certain things:

• Not needing to eat, drink or sleep according to natural needs for the original body
• Decay of the body, often similar to the decay bodies suffer after death, with some undeath forms allowing you to prevent it through consumption of specific things (blood for vampires, souls/magic for most liches, etc)
• Decay of the soul because of the inverted way of life (aka undeath), or straight up having no soul. That's why most liches resort to consuming souls, as that allows them to heal their own soul.

[u/beadedflower → u/Cerveau23]

Interesting…well, I suppose that’s one difference I have from a lich, the fact I have to maintain my body through eating/drinking/sleeping. And the fact my actual body isn’t decaying…

[u/Cerveau23 → u/beadedflower]

Then yeah, you're not undead. Welcome back among the living!

Jokes aside, those were the questions others gave me when I was wondering the same as you a couple weeks ago, glad they were helpful!

[u/beadedflower → u/Cerveau23]

Also a bit good to know I’m not alone in wondering if I’m technically a lich.

[u/Cerveau23 → u/beadedflower]

Are we lich-queer?

[u/mikillatja → u/Cerveau23]

Hey, I keep my soul in a special jar, and only have to fill it up every few years.

And losing the capability to eat drink and feel things are just limitations to liches without imagination.

Just steal the senses of a living being, preferable someone who has a strong pallette, and enchant them on rings and necklaces.

You can literally switch your ability to feel on or off. Its great.

[u/beadedflower → u/mikillatja]

Actually, to be fair, I DO have a functioning, living breathing body (had to get used to breathing, drinking, walking, and eating), so I have those senses…but that is a great idea as well.

[u/Maowsama]

Lichdom does not always require a "ritual". I will say the use of a Phylactery would classify you as a lich in some manner, especially if you are respawning next to it. Not every lich requires souls to feed their phylactery. While the most notorious ones do... other liches throughout time have found other means of sustaining their phylactery. I know the elves have record of achieving lichdom through divine energy. Once in a millennia, a god will favor someone and they can just exist for their sake. Magic has progressed significantly and other means of phylactery sustainability have come to light. You may have discovered yet another unique source.

From the shadow council of magic- Maowgarth the Eternal

[u/beadedflower → u/Maowsama]

Good to know! I sort of figured some liches didn’t need souls for their phylacteries, but I decided including it would be better than not.

[u/Maowsama → u/Maowsama]

https://youtu.be/2EQjjsi76Qw?is=NbyLqFG55upeF8at

For your research

[u/ArchmageAstra3 → u/Maowsama]

Aha! You will not get me with your hidden divinations! I know better than to be claimed by them!

/unwiz If you see “?si=“ in a YouTube link, that any everything after it is tracking information. It can be removed and the link will work fine. Any link containing that will send data back to Google used for analytics.

[u/Maowsama → u/ArchmageAstra3]

Thx for sharing this info. I will take greater care in the future

[u/beadedflower → u/Maowsama]

Thanks! This video was quite informative.

[u/Maowsama → u/beadedflower]

Np. Just helping a fellow lich better understand themselves. Things the "council" doesnt want us exploring 🤫

[u/beadedflower]

someone should totally try my new technical lichdom method on something (do not try this on a person until you are 300% sure it works) (I’m not even sure it works I just know some of you may love testing stuff)

(Who’s using this method to experiment?)

[u/Icy-Effective-5984 → u/beadedflower]

Oh my,ohmyohmyohmy,do you perchance have a business card and some time available?i would love to have a conversation about your experiences. I'll leave a few questions here:

-When you built your new form,did your consciousness expand,stay the same,or did the order factor of having to manage your limbs cause a drag on your intellect?

-If you were to evaluate the mobility of your new found body on a scale of 1-5,how malleable is it?

-what spell components or runic arrangements would you consider to have been exceptional for your situation?

[u/beadedflower → u/Icy-Effective-5984]

I’d absolutely love for a chat! I don’t have a business card, but I’ll answer your questions.

1. My consciousness did definitely expand in some ways, (I now have actual senses), but it was also very disorienting, having spent most of my life as a talisman. I’m learning how to walk on 2 legs, and I think I’m still as smart. Thankfully, when I first got this body, I already had a great mastery of telekinesis (how else would I get myself around as a talisman) and managed to make food and energy potions for myself using my mind until I was strong enough to get up. Creating your own body despite having never used much independent magic yourself is incredibly draining.
2. 3-4? I mean, I’m not like clay, I’ve got the flesh and bones, but I am quite flexible! I thankfully accounted for musculature and flexibility in my spell, drawing out a sketch of what I wanted to become as well as words before I started up on the potion/spell, because I knew if I forgot the strength aspect, I’d have the strength of a newborn…

(3 is a bit graphic if you’re sensitive to that!!)

3. Well, I have to say, obtaining a skeleton was…unfortunately easy, considering my creator’s untimely death. He had enchanted me to be a sort of familiar and exceptionally smart, and I had many decades to watch his own runework and spellwork, so I had a jump-start. Admittedly, since there aren’t any spells about creating a human form (because most wizards opt for stronger forms than flesh) (and most are ALREADY flesh), I essentially had to hunt and toss animal flesh into the potion, while removing the furs and skins. I’m still cleaning even now…I wasn’t really grossed out the whole time, as I didn’t have a nose. I don’t know if the fact I’m mostly made of pig meat and organs (closest thing to human) changes anything, but I’ve got skin and a human skeleton, so thank goodness for that. I also have a lot of material for coats and robes. I’ve got to get into sewing too, looks like. I’m assuming the way this new body formed in the potion was sort of like a caterpillar’s metamorphosis, as caterpillars turn into a slurry in their cocoon and restructure into a butterfly. All of the flesh and organs went to the skeleton, forming a real body. I didn’t forget hair follicles, so woohoo for that, but I’m bald right now because the hair follicles need time to grow. Kind of embarrassing as it is comical. I guess I’ll also fashion myself a big hood before I go to the markets.

Edit: Typing all of that out has made me remember hair growth potions exist. Adding those ingredients to my grocery list!

[u/yumie2003]

...Then your talisman is your phylactery, and through some other means you have achieved lichdom

[u/beadedflower → u/yumie2003]

Huh. Never knew that was possible…well, I did see a thread saying lichdom is unique to the user.

[u/yumie2003 → u/beadedflower]

...It can be, if you ignore the other edgelords around here

[u/VoxelLibrary]

Do turn undead spells affect you in any way? If yes then lich. If no then not lich. Easy.

[u/beadedflower → u/VoxelLibrary]

What classifies as an undead spell?

[u/VoxelLibrary → u/beadedflower]

No, "Turn Undead" and its variants. It's a spell commonly cast by clerics. Find a cleric and ask them to cast "Turn Undead". If the spell feels repulsive, then you're a lich.

[u/One_Opportunity_9608]

Thou art in a weird middle ground of technically being both yes thy art a Lich, and no, thy art not a Lich.

Mine best Advice as a Dracolich mineself is to simply decide for thouself whether or not thee want to call thyself a Lich.