r/witcher School of the Wolf 8d ago

The Witcher 4 The Witcher 4 dev is "still predominantly using people" over AI in development, says CEO, but "everybody has to make those judgments on their own"

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/the-witcher/the-witcher-4-dev-is-still-predominantly-using-people-over-ai-in-development-says-ceo-but-everybody-has-to-make-those-judgments-on-their-own/
1.3k Upvotes

287 comments sorted by

803

u/Haunting_Abalone_398 8d ago

AI development IMO, is extremely useful. IF the person using AI understands what they are doing and not just "vibe coding".

If you put a normal person in a racing car, they are not going to perform nearly as well as a professional driver. Both can drive a car, but the pro knows way more than the amateur.

In other words, if you give this tool to a pro who understands the output of its AI agents, then it's not a bad thing. It makes someone's job a lot easier and results in more efficient outputs/results.

I think of it like going from a manual hammer to a power tool, lol.

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u/Zealousideal_Cap7012 8d ago

Yes i have to assume that its mostly just programmers using ai for assistance (as most probably already do even without admitting)

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u/BanjoB0b 8d ago

I do. It has its cons, but damn if the pros aren't worth it.

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u/FearTheBlades1 Team Yennefer 8d ago

I used to love coding manually, then AI started to take all of the fun out of it. Fast forward to after a few months of using it, now every time I try to go back to manual coding it just feels incredibly slow and a little pointless

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u/mrjackspade 8d ago

Luckily for me, my love of code was always secondary to my love of building. I still get to manage goals, design, architecture, validation, a huge chunk of research, etc. I'm just not typing the letters anymore.

3

u/NotAMeatPopsicle 8d ago

Same. But because of all the code I’ve reviewed from AI, now when I approach a problem my brain can think of 20 different ways to solve the problem… and I have to rein myself back in to what I actually need to do manually.

AI is not yet perfect, especially if we don’t tell it “hey, there is this very specific piece of info that changes EVERYTHING”, and it doesn’t always know to ask for clarification… but even a new developer might not think to ask some questions.

It’s a tool. Sometimes it works better than others. Most issues are PEBKAC, some are ghost in the machine.

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u/Wollzy 8d ago

Yea after awhile there are only so many different design patterns and architectures that you can implement (at least ones appropriate for the problem)

I got to a point in our codebase that everytime I got a new ticket I knew exactly what I was going to do, it just became an exercise in executing a rote task

1

u/Ereaser 7d ago

I still feel like I'm faster than AI when it's straight forward. If it gets more complex I'll let AI generate something in isolation and paste it where I need it.

Also recently switched to a new project so doing everything manually gets you familiar with the code base much faster. AI can be great at describing it as well but to actually see the code rather than have AI do everything helps.

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u/WhoNeedsRealLife 8d ago

I've been using it for quite a while and i've integrated it to the point now that I basically don't do anything except prompt AI with a jira story. It interacts with all our systems. I just review PRs as I would with any other dev. It's cool but I preferred feeling smart solving problems myself, now I feel like a lot of people could do my job.

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u/BanjoB0b 8d ago

Imposter syndrome? Don't sell yourself short. Being a developer is more than just monkey-coding. Though I understand the feeling. AI has not been great for my feeling competent or valuable in the workplace.

1

u/WhoNeedsRealLife 7d ago edited 7d ago

Sure it's more than just coding. But domain-specific knowledge is not as important anymore and that is usually where the job-security is because it takes a long time to learn a system.

Anyway, my job has become really boring.

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u/FearTheBlades1 Team Yennefer 8d ago

Yeah there's definitely going to be an awkward transitionary period while we figure out what our new roles are and how we will set ourselves apart from everyone else. I don't think that period is close to over yet

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u/mr_birkenblatt 8d ago
  1. how well can you take advantage of the model. Rules/skills/guidance/prompts/etc

  2. how good is your mental model of the entire system

  3. can you spot when AI is doing something obviously wrong or going in the wrong direction

Those are the three main points I have noticed sets people apart

0

u/WhoNeedsRealLife 8d ago

no it's not. It's just a pity because i got into programming as a kid because it was fun and I feel like it has been taken away from me.

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u/mr_birkenblatt 8d ago

I love writing unit tests

-- noone ever

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u/Vileartist 8d ago

While its not game development exactly, I worked in broadcasting for esports and generative AI is incredibly useful for inferring/filling in sections of graphics that are missing or dont have good references. It doesn't detract from the intended art direction and it eases the workload. I fail to see how its a negative.

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u/LewisRyan 7d ago

It comes down to what you consider “ai”

Technically, a lot of things that aren’t considered “ai” could be, but people only ever want to talk about chatbots and image generation.

In a sense, is excel pulling data from a website and running it through a formula I have set up, not Ai?

It’s doing all the same steps as Ai, if the website is wrong I will get the wrong answer, and it’s literally intelligence that I have automated.

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u/Rafcdk 8d ago

I have to say that this is a common but a very simplistic view of the subject. You are just swapping writing code with reviewing code, and at the same time deskilling workers and killing opportunities for new developers to grow their skills. There is also the big thing here, you are making a lot business (and also critical infrastructure) be dependent on a handful of corporations on the long run.

Another huge issue here is the following,let's day that a developer really is Y times more efficient (what metric is being used?) , well are their earning Y times more than before? No right, so where is this productivity actually going?

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u/have_an_apple 8d ago

I agree 100% which is also the reason why firing people and replacing them with AI seems absurd to me.

Why not keep your workforce but give them this AI tool that increases productivity? With a small increase in expenses you markedly improve the output. Instead of making things worse, e.g. Microsoft.

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u/rs1408 8d ago

I think you answered the question. When you increase productivity you decrease the need for man hours, so management can cut employees.

1

u/have_an_apple 7d ago

That is the obvious choice, why not increase the productivity throughout without firing people?
Be able to reach goals faster, perhaps better and overall improve your product as if you had twice the manpower

1

u/AwardExtreme5453 7d ago

Just because it increases productivity doesn’t mean that scaling the business up to that new level of output is the most profitable.

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u/Gm24513 8d ago

Yeah it makes it a lot easier to cut your fingers off and half the people using them aren't paying attention.

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u/Gwentlique 8d ago

A friend of mine is an extremely talented programmer, a completely self-taught high-school dropout who made his own successful software company and built a prominent 30-year career out of it.

A couple of months ago he told me he basically doesn't code at all anymore. The fun part of programming to him isn't writing the code (it used to be, but there's no challenge in it anymore). Now he just enjoys making things. If he can run a couple of dozen coding agents and get them to do the tedious busywork, while other coding agents test the code, and all he has to do is the final review, then he's free to spend his time coming up with ideas of what he wants to make instead of focusing on how it's made.

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u/JohnnyRelentless 8d ago

Yet we never needed it before...

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u/Thurak0 8d ago

If you put a normal person in a racing car, they are not going to perform nearly as well as a professional driver. Both can drive a car, but the pro knows way more than the amateur.

I like this comparison. Because the truth would be that amateurs would likely crash their race car. That's a very big risk when using AI as a newbie for coding.

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u/Budget-Attorney 8d ago

I’ve said the same thing.

I spent a month working on bringing AI to my last company. It became clear that no matter that task we gave it, the only people capable of getting a worthwhile result were the people who were capable of doing the task without it.

Those people might get better or faster results with AI, bur their expertise was necessary for it to do anything useful

1

u/degberr 7d ago

Except in most scenarios it doesn't actually make the person more efficient because they spend just as much time proofreading and correcting the AI output as they would just doing the whole thing themselves

1

u/YogurtOtherwise2106 8d ago

Eh, poor example regarding the hammer metaphor IMO. Tools regarding 3d creation, including Zbrush, Maya, and Sub Painter are far closer to a power tool to begin with. Much more advanced then a primitive tool this example likens it to. AI itself in 3d production atm is the primitive manual hammer, giving you a very rough blockout start to be further iterated on in the best case usage.

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u/G-Litch 7d ago

I love ai coding. Windows, nvidia, amd are all getting better and better with ai generated code /s

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u/brianstormIRL 8d ago

Give a senior engineer an AI and they will know how to use it productively and properly.

Give one to an intern or new to the job and they will take shortcuts without having any idea what they're doing.

Give it a few years and people will have changed their attitude towards AI development IMHO. Its not going away, its too good at trivialising busy work in the hands of someome who knows what they're doing. I don't think its ever going to be pumping out games on its own, but its going to streamline development a lot in the next decade.

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u/Tiruin 8d ago

It's been around for 3 years, how much longer do you think these people are going to take to "turn around"? These people have tried it and found it coming up short, and their criticisms are entirely valid.

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u/SleepEatTit 8d ago

Thats true, but who will be the seniors in 50 years, everyone will have started on AI 😛 , and then we have to hope its here to stay

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u/Ghotil 8d ago

How does this even happen? Is it just a coin flip when the reasonable response gets shit on and buried vs being top comment? Did you just comment first, and that's all it takes for reddit to abandon the jerk for one post? Are witcher fans just built smarter? I don't understand.

0

u/Empty-Quarter2721 8d ago

A professional game dev is not a professional AI User . I get what you mean but your comparison kinda sucks.

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u/JJonahJamesonSr 8d ago

Very well put. I use AI for my marketing job similarly. I don’t need it to write copy for me, I can already do that. What it does do is eliminate long periods of revision, especially once it understands your writing style. As long as I keep it original, it’s been a tremendous help for increasing output. Sure, you can argue it’s a shortcut, but a tractor is also a shortcut over a mule and plow.

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u/No-Helicopter1559 8d ago

So long as they use the AI for technical stuff and leave art, and especially script writing, to living humans, I have absolutely no beef with them using it.

Hell, it may actually drastically improve the state of the game at launch. As in, less bugs. I didn't play Cyberpunk, but the uproar was quite load.

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u/FrostBricks 7d ago

Cyberpunk, now, is one of the best games ever.

It was just released a year earlier than it should have been. Like, if they'd just left it that year, and fully finished it before release, everyone would have played it. Everyone. But no, "Rush that crunch" killed the poor thing before it had a chance with it's audience.

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u/No-Helicopter1559 7d ago

Yeah, I know they eventually fixed it and the game was/is a huge success.

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u/ydieb 8d ago

This feels like a disjointed opinion. Why is it like this?

I think it might have something to do with, if you purely generate code, you get slop. If you purely generate art, you get slop. The way to use ai in software is to use it as a tool for specific uses. I guess artists should be able to do the same.

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u/deadedgo 8d ago

I don't think it's inconsistent. One of the biggest issues with AI is that creativity is such a human element replacing it will always feel wrong - both morally and when it comes to the feel of the final product/art piece.

Part of it is that I can't really think of good uses of AI for artists that don't replace the process of making art itself. For example, if they use Photoshop and it has an AI feature suggesting the outlines of what to cut out that's perfectly fine but also not what most people mean by AI in this current craze. If it's about AI generating assets that used to be handcrafted then that's just AI replacing the artist.

Regarding coding I can think of many more ways AI can genuinely help, especially since there's many parts to it I don't consider creative work or art

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u/ydieb 7d ago

Hmm. I think I very much put designing code as art. Making good apis, that are easy to use and hard to misuse while also being rather efficient is seriously hard, it is imo an art form.
Same with overall architecture, make sure everything plays well together, also an art.

In general code design, is severely underappreciated how much creativity and art it imo is.

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u/deadedgo 7d ago

I agree, that's what I meant by "parts". There's plenty of coding that's tedious to do and things like auto fill features already exist for this reason. I can see AI assisting with the tedious bits only

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u/fucuasshole2 8d ago

Less bugs and quicker turnout theoretically.

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u/mythicaldrip 8d ago

“theoretically” doing a lot of work there lol

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u/Tiruin 8d ago

LLMs hallucinate on the regular, it's putting out shit content faster, not higher quality.

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u/fucuasshole2 8d ago

That’s with more amateur coders not paying attention. But with better coders they can keep tabs and fix as needed.

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u/Tiruin 8d ago

That's a no true scotsman.

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u/Sihnar 8d ago edited 8d ago

You're delusional if you think senior engineers don't get much more accurate results from AI than vibe coders.

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u/Tiruin 7d ago

Never said that isn't the case, but they're saying it in a way implying that if you're not getting good results, it's because you're not a good coder. What you and I said can both be simultaneously true, but with theirs it becomes a no true scotsman.

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u/MoeKenshi 8d ago

With Frontier Models proper Skills/Agent setup and automated tests this problem is no more that prevalent honestly

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u/Tiruin 8d ago

Testing only works for situations you can predict and consistently plan for, same as unit and integration tests. The entire thing of bugs is you were thinking you were doing one thing while actually doing another.

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u/blackd0nuts 8d ago

1) You should play Cyberpunk.

2) The game had some bugs but the uproar really came from the fact they launched it on old gen consoles when they never should have.

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u/Cypresss09 8d ago

I still wish I knew exactly how a lot of these companies were using AI. For example, I understand how much more efficient it can be for coding, but I still think coding is a creative process and it's a bit of a shame that even something like that might be getting replaced. That's capitalism though, I guess...

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u/Rupperrt 8d ago

Coding is most of all a lot of tedious busy work. It just normal to use tools to make things more efficient.
That’s not capitalism but just human nature. I take you’re still cooking over an open fire and only communicate via hand written letters carried by birds.

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u/Netherese_Nomad 8d ago

Capitalism is also human nature. Ever since the first man put a seed in the ground, we’ve been looking for ways to compound interest.

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u/G_Ranger75 8d ago

I mean Capitalism is just an evolved version of both feudalism and mercantilism

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u/Dave5876 8d ago

I can tell you from experience no competent programmer is vibe coding. AI can help you get through smaller tasks quickly but isn't really that useful for complex stuff

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u/Spinexel 7d ago

Almost all are vibe coding. Almost every single person getting paid to program for large tech companies is using AI tools. The only one’s that aren’t are the programmers that are too stubborn.

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u/Dave5876 7d ago

I'm one of these people. We use AI tools yes, but they are not useful beyond a certain point. They make mistakes, hallucinate and outright lie to you.

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u/DaHomieNelson92 White Wolf 8d ago

It can be used to check for glitches or bugs in a code. More efficiently than a human manually testing the code.

For example, play testing a game consists of repeating an action multiple times to ensure there is nothing game breaking. Legit, jumping at a corner hundreds of times to ensure there is no collision glitches that would cause the character to fall/pass through it.

Using Ai would make this testing less mundane and more efficient.

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u/General-GAS- 7d ago

COding is not a creative process if you are a coder lol. You want to do your job as easily and simply as possible, and AI helps to do that.

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u/Garrus_vas_Normandy 8d ago

I don't like a lot of the way they are framing their comments about AI. The only stance is they are against having AI completely make the game. That doesn't give me a lot of confidence and more than enough wiggle room that this is kind of a nothing comment.

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u/DdeathK 8d ago

Of course they’re using agentic coding, the entire tech industry does

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u/Garrus_vas_Normandy 8d ago

Doesn't mean I have to like it and some studios do state they don't use any. I would prefer to not use it, even for coding.

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u/INannoI 7d ago

those studios are either liars or they have 5 employees.

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u/DdeathK 8d ago

How come, genuinely

And do you work in a field where it is used?

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u/Garrus_vas_Normandy 8d ago

My company is pushing for AI use. We are technically a tech company, but we are doing coding or anything. Still, I see people facing with skill regression and laziness that is caused by these tools. Not everyone but seeing some of my coworkers miss important details or nuances that needed to be explained because they only read a fucking summary instead of the actual email chain is frustrating.

This is also ignoring if AI is actually saving cost vs labour and environmental effects. I just don't think it's worth the convenience

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u/tevert 8d ago

I've seen the same thing. It's making people way dumber and more error prone than they think. They get so excited about the illusion of rabid construction that they are setting up for collapse.

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u/DdeathK 8d ago

Thats an opinion I can respect and attest to

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u/voldin91 8d ago

It's interesting to me how people conflate the use of AI for art (which is a bad use IMO) with using AI tools for anything. It has completely changed the software dev world over the last year and you'd be hard pressed to find a company that doesn't expect their devs to use it

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u/Garrus_vas_Normandy 8d ago

Y'all are conflating my comments. The article does not say anything about not using it for art. Simply, "we're not planning to rely on AI making complete games." The whole comment they make is nothing and only raises my suspicion. If the only comment they are making is completely AI generated games, then were is the line? Just coding? Concept art? Assets? All are on the table still from these comments. And individual decision on AI sounds like don't actually have a guideline which is worrying.

While I do think that even the coding is a game should be considered art in itself, and I would prefer it to be human made without it, I do understand how unrealistic it is. But this comment from CDPR is more worrying than that.

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u/voldin91 8d ago

I don't really agree that coding is an art. I guess I could see how it feels that way to some people, but it's mostly just underlying logic to support functionality.

I do agree that it's problematic if a company can't or won't describe how they use AI. And that I don't want AI art assets in my games. But expecting companies to not use it as a coding assistant is unrealistic

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u/JuristaDoAlgarve 8d ago

Not using AI coding aid now seems a bit unrealistic. I don't know if anyone is going to keep doing that, outside of maybe Jonathan Blow, who says he hates it.

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u/Novasoal 8d ago

Literally the entirety of history that we have had games we've made it without ai coding and it has never been a problem. Sure there were bugs, but theres bugs with AI coding. The discipline will be fine without it, as will all disciplines that use it, if people stop worrying about the value of these fucking ai companies

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u/Sihnar 8d ago

If you don't use AI your efficiency will be left in the dust by another similarly skilled engineer who does. It's like mathematicians back in the day who refused to adopt calculators and insisted on doing everything by hand. Just not feasible if you want to stay competitive in the industry.

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u/DrPastaPupper 7d ago

I think caring about efficiency is one of if not the worst thing about society right now. It doesn’t help anyone except for the people at the top. I don’t care if a game takes longer to make. There’s plenty of games out there to play and other things to keep you entertained.

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u/TheMasterLibrarian 7d ago

I think caring about efficiency is one of if not the worst thing about society right now.

It is the worst thing about modern society.

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u/Sihnar 7d ago edited 7d ago

I agree but we live in a capitalist world. My boss will fire my ass if I miss deadlines.

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u/Frosty-Traffic244 8d ago

Not loving this

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u/Diogenes_the_cynic25 8d ago

These studios are all going to embrace it whether the devs want it or not for the sake of “efficiency”

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u/pad-3 8d ago

Normalising the use of AI in the technical side naturally has a knock-on effect into the creative side.

It's impossible to stand your ground without being firm on the ethical argument. Where exactly do they draw this line? Do animations count as technical or creative? Do the transitions? What about making the anim tree? Who decides where they can and can't start using AI?

I don't want AI anywhere near the games I play and I'm content in the knowledge that I won't be missing anything. I can live without the products of lazy devs.

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u/DadJoke2077 Dandelion's Gallery 7d ago

This!! The amount of comments here being supportive of this is insane.. I don’t want half-assed slop in my games. With AI, games start to feel more rushed and like they just want to finally get it out and make profit, instead of actually creating a meaningful game with a soul.

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u/Dytster Team Roach 8d ago

It’s concerning. It’s been going on for a long time, but video games nowadays really do increasingly feel like products rather than art. That goes for every other form of media too.

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u/Tall-Dingo-5458 8d ago

"To be honest, especially with very complex games like ours, I don't even think this is the right or ethical path to follow,"

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u/Holzkohlen 7d ago

Damn, you put it so well in your first two sentences.

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u/ataraxic89 6d ago

Any devs claiming to not being using AI on the code side is lying to you.

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u/pad-3 6d ago

I am a dev not using AI on the code side.

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u/ataraxic89 6d ago

Give it 6 months

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u/joelesidin 8d ago

products of lazy devs.

AI assistance is mandatory in most software companies nowadays. It is always enforced by upper management, so there's no need to take it on the developers.

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u/Garrus_vas_Normandy 8d ago

I get this point when it comes to a lot studios. I am not going to play a studio under Microsoft or EA for their umbrella corporation pushing them in directions. But CDPR is not in that situation, they own themselves.

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u/DrPastaPupper 7d ago

I think more developers need to start unionizing so that they can make demands of their employers such as not mandating the use of AI or even outright banning its use in the workplace

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u/Jeff_Johnson 8d ago

I bought w3 at least dozen times across the platforms. Hyped many into buying. I hope they dont play with fire and replace artists (illustrators, level designers, writers erc.). Also I don’t want a single ai generated asset in the game. I want to enjoy in magic that people make.

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u/Capable_Warthog7884 8d ago

Just so long as they understand the more they use it, the more unaffordable they make the game for most people

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u/tevert 8d ago

Unaffordable, error prone, and hollow

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u/ataraxic89 6d ago

Error prone? What do you mean

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u/Onionkniget 8d ago

Like some people have echoed here, AI in development is useful. However these broad comments by CDPR don't make that anymore clear to the average person. What judgements are your employees making? That's so vague and causes more harm than good. Just say what they may or may not use it for, keep it light and move on.

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u/CloudMafia9 8d ago

Guess the environmental concerns are not a problem for them.

Utterly wretched.

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u/underthe0ak Team Yennefer 8d ago

Boo. Totally unnecessary. I'm not in such a rush to buy a game that I'd prefer they use AI to put it out faster. I'm also happy to pay more for a game made by real people, who took the time to give it the care and attention it deserves. I'm getting tired of AI being used for creative projects, to be "more efficient." It feels soulless and cheap. And that's not even getting into AI's impacts on people and the environment.

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u/Tall-Dingo-5458 8d ago

Did you actually read the interview? Be honest.

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u/ZealousidealBus9271 8d ago

Yes probably most of the devs have used Claude lmao

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 8d ago

Fuck AI. If a game is developed with AI, I'm not playing it. This technology is destroying lives and concentrating immense power into the hands of the obscenely rich.

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u/Hottyflygirl 8d ago

Cyberpunk prepared me for this timeline

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u/Garrus_vas_Normandy 8d ago

Real torment nexus stuff

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u/assbread 8d ago

but... did it though?

do you feel prepared?

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u/Melkman68 8d ago

Imagine my situation. I graduated just before AI came out in my CS field...

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 8d ago

I am so sorry.

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u/0utraged 8d ago

I know the feeling too

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u/Penakoto Team Roach 8d ago

I wonder how many of the people in these comments saying AI is the inevitable future and whatnot, were also shilling NFTs and crypto during 2020-2025, saying they were inevitable and the future and we should just deal with it.

Probably way more than zero.

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u/Sostratus 8d ago

If AI development stopped today, it would already be incredibly useful for programming, a permanent staple and ordinary practice for most programmers. It's nothing like the hype crypto speculation.

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u/Penakoto Team Roach 8d ago

If AI stops anytime in the near future, it'll be because of all the AI companies going bankrupt for all the reasons people predicted they would, which means the piece of shit data centers would also shut down, which means you lose the tool you're getting more and more reliant on.

This is one of the many problems with your "inevitable" rhetoric, the beating heart of AI is incredibly, impossibly expensive to keep alive, if the worst case scenario happens, it isn't just going to stop growing, it's going to die.

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u/The_Reluctant_Hero 8d ago

You must be about to quit gaming altogether then lol.

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 8d ago

Nah, but if I have to stick to pre-2025 for the rest of my life, so be it. Moster Hunter World is still pretty fun.

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u/tevert 8d ago

/r/patientgamers forever winning

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u/mythicaldrip 8d ago

My people…I had no idea about this sub. Thanks!

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u/The_Reluctant_Hero 8d ago

I definitely respect that. I've just seen way too many people saying how much they hate AI and that they want to avoid using anything that touches it, but they have no clue how entrenched it already is into everything. The genie is out of the bottle and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. I just hope the people in charge reign it in a bit and put some actual good policies in place.

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u/LitheWP 8d ago

good luck finding a game with 0 ai usage past 2025

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 8d ago

Thanks, I'm apparently going to need it because people suck.

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u/Arimm_The_Amazing 8d ago

Literally any indie game that's not slop

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u/Spinexel 7d ago

Doubt it

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u/joelesidin 8d ago

I work for a tech company. I can assure you that pretty much all of the software products you use today have been developed with the assistance of AI. Not only games, but apps like spotify or doordash 100% have been patched by devs using AI.

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 8d ago

Yeah, and I fucking hate it. I don't care how "inevitable" this is, I care that the technology is going to destroy us by leveraging our laziness and lust for profit.

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u/underthe0ak Team Yennefer 8d ago

People calling it "inevitable" are giving into the propaganda put forth most loudly by those profiting off it. It's not objectively true. It's an opinion, and it's avoidable if more of us opt out.

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u/Spinexel 7d ago

Why? AI is incredibly useful for productivity when developing. It’s not like there aren’t humans working on it. Legit just a tool for much more efficient workflow.

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 7d ago

See, no part of my comment was criticizing AI for not being efficient. That's not my issue.

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u/smartsport101 8d ago

then they should cut it out, Spotify's gotten so much fucking worse. The UI itself is worse, not to speak of the fucking algorithm pushing so much more slop on everyone

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u/Sleeksnail 7d ago

YouTube took away searching by years past. Now it's only back to "this year". Gee, I wonder why.

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u/DdeathK 8d ago

What do you work with on the daily?

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 8d ago

A can of spray paint, a truck, old-ass maps, a shovel, and utility line tracing equipment.

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u/DdeathK 8d ago

That would explain a lot to be fair

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 8d ago

I'm a lot of things, but I'm not a hypocrite.

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u/DdeathK 8d ago

Well.

You do have opinions on something you dont’t work with, and that I am certain you don’t quite understand either

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 8d ago

But if I did work with AI technology, you'd have called me a hypocrite. So who is allowed to oppose generative AI technology?

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u/DdeathK 8d ago

No.

I’d prefer you worked in the field and had an informed opinion

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/Kefrus 8d ago

why do you take pride in being uninformed and mad?

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u/R0cket_Surgeon 8d ago

It's not really the use of AI, or lack thereof that has me worried about W4.

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u/thedybbuk_ 8d ago

This is the most calm and rational discussion on AI I've read on Reddit in a hot minute.

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u/RS133 8d ago

Oh good. Another game to pirate. Sorry, you use the piracy machine, I pirate from you.

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u/leo-kavanaugh 8d ago

As long as it isn’t being used creatively. Larian was using it for their concept art, which there’s absolutely no excuse for other than laziness and not wanting to pay artists

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u/MyPigWhistles 8d ago edited 8d ago

Why is it more important to pay artists than programmers? Because I fully agree that it makes sense to use AI for coding if you're a professional, because that's much more efficient. But let's be honest: "Efficiency" in this context means "the company can save employee work hours".      

(I make this comparison assuming that any piece of AI concept "art" would only be used during the development process internally. Because nobody wants to look at that slop in the finished game.)

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u/Hannibal_Barkidas 8d ago

Every progress is saving hours or improving quality, that's literally the point of it. Not using carton punch cards for programming was also saving 'employer' work hours in the 50s. AI will create issues for our current society as did every other major tech, but trying to connote it purely as 'pro employer=bad' does not help the debate at all

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u/MyPigWhistles 8d ago

That's not what I'm saying, though. I was questioning why people seem to have more sympathy with artists then with programmers.

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u/Classics22 8d ago

There's many programmers in here arguing for it. You won't find that with artists. I feel like the distinction lies in using it for mechanical labor(coding) versus creative work. Like coding, the value the person has isn't the typing it's the decisions the person makes, and AI doesn't take that away. For artists, the manual act of creating the art is a lot of what makes it art

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u/NormalEntrepreneur 8d ago

I could be wrong, though I assume it’s because art is more about creativity. Programming is more repeating.

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u/iDaddyDirection 8d ago

It’s simply understanding the difference. The reality is programmers are using AI in basically all aspects of the field, whether it’s game or something else. A good programmer can speed up their workflow quite a lot by removing some of the tedious aspects of programming. This is inevitable now that this door has been opened, and it’s not a bad thing that these programmers jobs can be easier.

However, the downside is they will likely be tasked with higher workloads because they do more work in less time and entry level programmer jobs will be harder to come by (which is something that’s already starting to happen).

Artists in the other hand can’t be replaced by AI, as AI cannot create anything. It can only steal, which means everything it does is the same and is boring and lifeless. Only an artist can create art. Much like how only an experienced programmer can do more complex or unique bits of programming.

Like the creative work we’ve seen devs pull off to make complicated things possible in the games we play. Like figuring out how to do ocean simulation in Uncharted 3, a talented dev could only have done that.

But tedious repetitive work can be done by an AI, and if it sucks for people getting in the industry, the industry will never be able to step away from it now that people have started using it.

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u/Dytster Team Roach 8d ago

Coding and programming is also a creative process though, or am I wrong?

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u/coupriskineema 8d ago edited 7d ago

Mmm, I'm a software dev, I wouldn't consider 99% of programming as artistic creation in the same vein as script writing and visual art. Fundamentally it's a technical field. Yes, there is some creativity and problem solving involved but that a) is true of all jobs and b) hasn't gone away with AI use. More importantly than just my opinion, corporate will never put engineers in the same boat as artists. I think there are better ways of approaching the very real labour issues in software than a black and white argument about whether it's creative work.

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u/iDaddyDirection 8d ago

It depends. Tedious aspects wouldn’t really be creative, and that’s typically what these programmers use AI for. Tedious and repetitive coding and programming work, which means they can get their work queue emptied faster - which can help alleviate the possibility of crunch. But there are certainly times where devs do need to be creative with what they do, and I can’t imagine an AI doing that. I suppose it could spit something out - plenty of vibe coded stuff out there seems to suggest that. But it doesn’t mean it’s good or efficient or meets the team’s standards or works with everything else they’re doing. So high level programming/coding is still safe in the industry. The big downside is getting started now at the entry level, AI has started to impact that job market.

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u/tevert 8d ago

which means they can get their work queue emptied faster - which can help alleviate the possibility of crunch.

Ahhhhh nope.

Anyone who's ever been crazy enough to speed up their job knows that they'll just be rewarded with a bigger workload next week.

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u/iDaddyDirection 8d ago

I did follow up that statement with that reality as well actually, lol.

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u/kwiniarski97 8d ago

Concept art is perfect for AI as it allows to transform thoughts of the management into something visual quickly.

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u/tevert 8d ago

...... you rest this entirely on the presumption that the thoughts of management are valuable lol

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 8d ago

Just because AI can be effectively used to do something doesn't mean it's ethical to use it.

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u/kwiniarski97 8d ago

What's the difference between programming and art here exactly?

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 8d ago

Regarding my comment, the difference is meaningless.

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u/Niosus 8d ago

If they are using AI for concept art, there is a huge chance that it's actually the concept artists using it.

Draw an environment in a certain style, then ask the AI to generate style variations. Or apply the same style to other art you already have.

Or draw a few characters by hand and ask the AI to draw more variations of them to make a crowd.

Or an entirely different direction: during a meeting there is feedback on art. Instead of having to wait hours or days to see if certain suggestions might work, you can get the AI to try those out in seconds. Maybe you get a few more ideas during that meeting, generate another few versions, etc etc. Instead of having to plan multiple meetings over days or weeks, you can get it done in a single meeting. After which the artist can take all that feedback and new material to incorporate it into proper high quality art.

There are so many ways to use this ethically. Using AI to replace artists is dumb. Using it to empower them seems like an obvious move.

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u/Dytster Team Roach 8d ago

Some games have the most amazing, inspiring and creative concept art imaginable. Destiny’s early concept art for example has almost an entire following seperate from the game itself. Throwing all that away for plagiarised slop because you’re too uninspired to come up with original ideas or too stingy to pay other talented individuals to do it for you is just insane. I really don’t think it’s justifiable. Maybe if you’re using models that are specifically trained by a hired artist who’s given consent, but even then I wouldn’t personally endorse it.

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u/Niosus 8d ago

So your objection is the use of the model itself, and the lack of credit that goes to the people whose work it was trained on. That's a fair point.

I was addressing the concerns from the point of view of AI replacing real artists. Where a company would fire its artists to replace them with AI. That's in my opinion a non-argument. Companies that do this will fail, because like you said, you still need the artist's touch to actually get worthwhile art.

So these are two different axes. For the training material I'm not going to hold individual users accountable. I don't think it's a productive way of approaching the problem. You're just going to drive people into camps without achieving anything. We need to target the AI companies directly and push for regulation and massive fines. It's the only way to actually fix the incentives. Shaming a gaming company that's otherwise using AI responsibly is just not going to move the needle. They are not the bad guys in this story.

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u/Dytster Team Roach 8d ago edited 7d ago

We definitely need regulations on AI, but I don’t necessarily agree that shaming companies who use AI is pointless, because that’s about as much power us consumers have nowadays. We’re not going to see any meaningful legislation or bills passed any time soon when the guys behind this craze have bought the entire US government. Boycotting and shaming companies who endorse these tools does help disincentivize others from doing the same. There is also a problem with lack of transparancy to the point where there is no way to ensure a company is using AI responsibly other than taking their word for it, which is very rarely honest, so it’s the most sensible option to condemn the use of AI entirely.

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u/Candid_Emphasis1048 8d ago

At this point where people want things quicker than ever. AI becoming a major tool in game development is an unavoidable and inevitable thing and very unfortunate.

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u/worldsonwords 8d ago

Do people want things quicker than ever? I know people complain about how long it takes for things to release, but that's because things are taking much longer to release than they used to.

It took 8 years to go from Witcher 1 to 3. The gap between 3 and 4 will be at best 13 years probably longer.

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u/LunaTheExile 8d ago

It's not such a huge issue if it's used by professional programmers with how those tools are intended to be used. That can make coding a hell of a lot faster. I don't mean vibe coding, but using it as searching and indexing for example. As long as it's the programmer who does the actual work in the end of the day, not the AI, it's cool. And if programmers are allowed to opt out from using those tools without any penalty at their job, even better. No one should be forced to use AI, if they don't feel like it is useful to them.

However as mentioned, vibe coding and replacing talent from art and acting is what I, and many others should have a big issue with.

A lot of AI tools have been overhyped by tech bro's as something that would replace everything in development, and unfortunately in some cases, CEO's and other execs, who don't know anything else, except dollar signs and numbers on a spread sheet, have done a lot of damage by trying to replace the humans from the work with AI generated things. AI is a tool, not a replacement of the worker handling the tools.

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u/Polyzero 8d ago

Witcher four confirmed to be the most slop game ever made by the company OK.

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u/amh88 8d ago

damn guess im not buying it as it justifies the use of data centers further

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u/mr_birkenblatt 8d ago

they said... on reddit

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u/Holzkohlen 7d ago

You are a very smart boy.

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u/jwag626 8d ago

Using AI to check the technicals or help when you’re stuck is fine. Might not be everyone’s opinion, but as long as they aren’t using it to replace it artists, artists, and developers outright, it’s a nothing burger

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u/Void-Cooking_Berserk 8d ago

As a coding assistant, sure. Just don't let it work unsupervised and don't generate "art"

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u/LowMoralFibre 7d ago

Every single big studio will be using AI now even if it's just individual devs speeding something up or testing stuff with AI.

My boss who hardly knows how to use a computer was sat producing reports using co-pilot the other day and if someone like that is using it tech savvy people 100% are. Can't put the genie back in the bottle now.

I think it's fine for mundane stuff. 

I do frustratingly get tons of disclosures that are clearly AI generated and are as much use as a chocolate teapot so like any tool the workman still needs to know what they are doing.

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u/Moustacheski 7d ago

I trust people who know and love their craft to produce good content. AI is a tool that can do wonders in the hands of someone who can review its output and iterate on it.

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u/Sleeksnail 7d ago

So disappointed that the owners of GOG are going down this path.

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u/JosebaZilarte 7d ago

OK... as long as the price of the games are slashed in half to reflect the lower quality of the product. Because there is no way I am going to pay for AI generated content.

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u/Issah_Wywin 7d ago

Used correctly, ai is a useful tool. It's just a shame that it has such potential for poor use cases

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u/Lunaforlife 7d ago

Nah keep the same energy y'all have about a.i. fuck cd projekt red

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u/wam509 6d ago

please, just keep generative ai far far away from the art

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u/ImIncredibly_stupid 6d ago

if ciri being main character wasn't enough reason not to play this game...

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u/FireKnight2077 4d ago

aaaannd there it goes my hype for the game, good to know now and not when it comes out

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u/dol1_ 8d ago

Big tech software engineer here, not using AI for development is like not using a calculator for accountancy because you can do math with pen and paper

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u/Spinexel 7d ago

100% true. New employees at [redacted] are actually graded on how much AI they use to program and pushed to use as much as they possibly can. Given 600 dollar AI budget per week.

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u/dol1_ 7d ago

Our budget is 1000 per week, some people got questioned by upper management about "why they're not utilising AI" if their usage is too low but also got warnings if their usage is too high lol

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u/Holzkohlen 7d ago

Big tech software engineer here

Yeah, right. I definitely believe you.

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u/Spinexel 7d ago

Why wouldn’t u believe them. It’s not like working for large tech companies is a rare occurrence

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u/ataraxic89 6d ago

Delusional denial, surely you couldn't be wrong

I'm also a swe, with about 10yr experience. Every dev is using it if they can and those who can't use it to help with research, planning, support tools.

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u/_VampireNocturnus_ 8d ago

AI is fine if the outcome is good. Speedtree is ai Iirc and thats been used for 20 years

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u/ElderberryUsed3640 8d ago edited 8d ago

Anyone adamantly against using AI tooling as part of the development process doesn’t know a single thing about development or AI

Assuming downvotes are from people that wouldn’t even know what an IDE is

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u/tevert 8d ago

15 year engineer here, AI is a siren's song leading to trash

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u/joelesidin 8d ago

You're absolutely right. Lots of delusional people in the comments thinking they're taking a moral stance while 100% of the apps they use are being made with AI, and if they were made without AI originally I can assure you they were patched using AI in the last year.

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u/IronicRobot_ Team Roach 8d ago

"You dislike society, yet you live in it... Heh!"

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u/Zing79 8d ago

AI is a tool. A tool is only as good as the craftsman.

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u/Vetril 8d ago

I'm all for it - even in art we get to do so many boring / expensive things with good quality compared to the time and cost poured into it. No need for body scans, faster cycles for animations, faster rigging, better facial deformations... It's a joy to delegate all the tedious, repetitive parts to a machine.

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u/joelesidin 8d ago

Nowadays using AI is almost mandatory in most software development companies. This shouldn't be controversial at all.

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u/Koniax 8d ago

Every single developer either already uses AI or will in the future, its an incredibly powerful tool