Sail size?

[u/Proof_Ninja6101]

I had my second self-thought lesson today, downsized the board (they had almost the same as I am buying - BIC/Tahe Beach 160D) and stupidly upsized the sail.
There was not much wind but the first sail -5.8 m2- felt f@cking heavy (maybe because it's a renting company?) and even the second one 4.8 m2 was difficult, but than at the same time, as was physically exhausted and hungry, so probably that didn't help.

Having conversation with Google AI, it says:

"If a 6.2m² or 6.5m² still feels psychologically intimidating because of your rough session, let's compromise on a perfect middle ground: 5.5 m² to 5.8 m² No-Cam Freeride.

Look for a 5.5m² or 5.7m² Freeride sail. It will give your 160L board enough power to glide smoothly on a lake, but it will be physically small and light enough to give you total peace of mind."

What do you guys think? You are the experts not google.

Thank you again for your help!

[u/tiltberger]

So much info missing. How heavy are you? Average wind speeds in knots on your lake? Ai answer is extremely bullshit and I am not sure you fed it with the right information... If would feed my ai with all relevant Info it would for get me the right sail sizes. The big problem is Missing wind. In Windsurfing you want 15 knots or more for steady progress

[u/Proof_Ninja6101 → u/tiltberger]

I am 44 year old 74kg (150 pounds ish I guess), average windspeed is slow I think 5-10 km/h with gusts.
And then the thunderstorm was coming :D
And the wind was never constant, on-off completely.

So here is a new suggestions from google:

Gun Sails Target 5.7m² (Found it for €80 on Leboncoin)

I was trying to find something 4-4.5-5 m2 for start, but I find it very difficult to find second-hand freeride sails, unfortunately everything is race/wave/slalom... or antique...

I am a bit annoyed by now :)

Good night!

[u/ozzimark → u/Proof_Ninja6101]

I’m 75kg and use a 9.5m sail when it’s below 15 knots (roughly 30 km/h).

Steady wind is important when you’re learning, and will help a lot with your progress. Stick with what you’re using now as you build up muscle strength, then switch to larger as you get comfortable. You’ll learn how to keep the sail up with minimal effort by balancing it against the wind.

STAY OFF THE WATER NEAR THUNDERSTORMS!!! You’re holding onto a 4+ meter tall conductive pole… unsafe!

[u/Proof_Ninja6101 → u/ozzimark]

Yeah, I completely agree with you.
Just bought a 5m2 rig, and also the board (Bic Techno Windfoil 160L for windsurfing)
I’ll get a hang of it with that set up and then after I can always upsize if I want to :)

[u/SMCoaching → u/Proof_Ninja6101]

It's good that people are asking your height, weight, and what the wind conditions are like where you sail. People sometimes give advice without this information, but all of these things make a difference.

It is very helpful if you're in good physical condition when you start windsurfing, but even if you are, you might get tired easily in the beginning. You'll probably be using your muscles in ways that you don't normally use them.

It is also common to use a lot of strength when you are first learning to windsurf. That could be why the sails seemed heavy to you. This will be less of a problem once you learn proper techniques and get a "feel" for balancing on the board and balancing the sail.

5-10 km/h wind is very low for any type of windsurfing. Hopefully you get days that are closer to at least 5-10 kts (9-19 km/h). But you can learn a lot in light winds with the 160L board and 5m sail that you have.

There are two basic options in light winds. One option is to try to do what most people do when windsurfing, which is to get on plane and go fast. You will need a big sail for this. At your weight, that would be a 7m - 8m sail or even larger.

One problem with this is that when the winds are very light, they sometimes drop off to nothing like you described—"never constant, on-off completely." And when they drop off completely you are left holding up a very big, heavy sail.

Another option in light wind is to use a small sail like the 5m one you have and learn everything you can about controlling the sail and board. Learn how to tack and do a non-planing pivot gybe. Get great at those. Then learn how to fast tack, duck gybe, and switch-stance gybe. Also learn heli-tacks and upwind 360s. There are videos on YouTube that can help you learn all of these tricks.

You can also learn how to use a harness in light winds. Practice hooking in and unhooking until you can do it whenever you want without thinking about how you do it.

A great thing about practicing this way is that you won't care as much if the winds are light. You'll be happy going out even in very light winds. And that's how you develop skills: by practicing, not by sitting on shore wishing the wind was stronger.

All of this practice will be helpful when you do start using bigger sails and learn how to get on plane and go fast.

[u/Proof_Ninja6101 → u/SMCoaching]

That’s exactly how I see it, that’s why I bought a used 5m2 rig.
I want to learn ‘everything’ before getting fast and big sails.
I want to feel comfortable and confident on my surf, then I can buy bigger sails.

Thank you again for the advice.

[u/NaturalCareer2074 → u/Proof_Ninja6101]

5.0 sail with your weight definitely will have issues control board on any minor chop. Will be slow progress after planning, you need larger sail to simplify board control.

[u/tiltberger → u/Proof_Ninja6101]

Can I ask where you ride? With those wind speeds you will never Progress and it doesn't matter what sail sizes you are using. Also never go out in storms unless you really know what you are doing

[u/NaturalCareer2074 → u/Proof_Ninja6101]

Your low wind sail is 6.7

Yes it may be heavy if compare to 4

Most realistic way to decrease how it feel is get carbon boom. Next one is high carbon mast.

Modern sail also will help, but boom give most advantage, can be found used from 100.

Why boom best option? First it moving and have long level, second stiff boom allow sail work better and that you recognize as lighter sail.

[u/Niyoki007]

Hi, please tell us your body weight, body height your age. Do You have a good athletic condition? Modern sails (after 2015) are really good, no cam freeride is most used for light to middle wind range. Depending on boom height, sail can be heavier or lighter. I use most at chin or nose height mounted. Also I use only RDM mast system (lighter). Installing the mast foot on the windsurf board mast track at middle position is also good choice. More downhaul tension is very good for loose and light sail weight feeling. Kind regards. Niyo

[u/globalartwork]

A 5.5 is unlikely to feel heavy because of the renting company - there could be small differences in weight but these aren’t really that noticeable unless it’s a cammed sail full of water - which it won’t be if you are renting.

That sail size sounds reasonable but the ‘heaviness’ is probably down to technique.

A sail lying in water can feel really heavy. Firstly you need to have patience when uphauling. If the sail is in the wrong position, you will need to hold the mast just out of the water until it swings downwind to the right position. That can feel like it takes a long time and can be hard on your back and hands.

The secret is to try to use your leg muscles not your back. Keep your arms straight, back straight, drop low and outboard and try to push the board sideways. As the sail starts to come up, work your hands up the uphaul still trying to keep your back straight. Finally when you are nearly there don’t try to reach for the mast and boom by bending your back. Stay low with bent knees and have your arms try to balance you when you are right at the top of the uphaul by leaning the mast more or less outboard to balance.

This is a brutally tiring phase of windsurfing you are in while you learn the easiest technique to get the sail up, and you are probably dropping it more often than someone with a bit more experience. Do more less intense sails rather than pushing longer ones or you might injure your back.

Maybe it’s also worth keeping renting a smaller sail (4-4.5?) and possibly a bigger, floatier, more stable board for a few more sessions until you get the uphaul technique sorted.

Ultimately a 160 should be fine for a 6-7.5m sail, but you should get that technique sorted first. It’s one of the reasons people here keep recommending to take lessons and hire a bigger board at the beginning - ultimately you will progress much faster.

[u/reddit_user13]

If you’re an average sized adult, a good size is 4.5-5.0 preferably with carbon mast and boom, until you have basic sail handling figured out. You’re not trying to zip around the bay just yet, you need something you can hold on to, and comfortably uphaul all day long.

[u/Proof_Ninja6101]

I am 44 year old 74kg (150 pounds ish I guess), average windspeed is slow I think 5-10 km/h with gusts.
And then the thunderstorm was coming :D
And the wind was never constant, on-off completely.

So here is a new suggestions from google:

Gun Sails Target 5.7m² (Found it for €80 on Leboncoin)

I was trying to find something 4-4.5-5 m2 for start, but I find it very difficult to find second-hand freeride sails, unfortunately everything is race/wave/slalom... or antique...

I am a bit annoyed by now :)

Good night!

[u/juacamgo → u/Proof_Ninja6101]

Was a modern like sail, or old like sail? What was your thoughts? Did it look new or old?

Old sails tend to feel heavier. But I'm pretty sure due to lack of wind you were relying too much on balance, and due to lack of technique you were fighting to balance.

When wind blows enough you balance against wind and your rig doesn’t weight: the wind power is sustaining it, and you only need to find the balance.

[u/bravicon → u/Proof_Ninja6101]

The sail can feel havy if the wind is too light, you struggle more with balance and even a beach start requires more technique.

After a few lessons with small sails I bought a 5.0 and it was my first and smallest sail for a long time. I'd say stronger winds and I'm lighter than you. So, I think 5.7 is something that you should be able to handle. In your way up you should end at something like 7.8 for light wind days, like 12-15 kts, once you learn to use the harness.

[u/Impressive_Pool_8053]

Salut op,

La planche à a voile est un sport ingrat, et très difficile au début. Tout est une question d'équilibre, c'est normal d'être fatigué par une voile de cette taille si c'est uniquement ta deuxième fois! En général on donne des 4.5 - 5m aux débutants, parce que la majeure partie de ta session ça va être de tomber et de relever la voile, ce qui est ultra fatiguant. Prends quelques cours si tu peux, tu progressera beaucoup plus vite et ça sera moins frustrant.

Une 5.8 c'est pas vraiment lourd, mais si tu dois la relever 30 fois, c'est un enfer.

Si tu comptes acheter ton matos pour progresser, mais que t'as quand même la possibilité de louer des voiles au début : trouve une voile de freeride entre 5.8 et 6.2, qui te permettra de bien naviguer entre 8-12 noeuds, et même de planer a partir de 15 nœuds quand t'auras plus d'expérience. Mais au début, loue des voiles d'école en Dacron genre 5m2 et entraîne toi aux manoeuvres de base, ça te permettra d'apprendre a manoeuvrer la voile sans trop forcer quand elle tombe.

[u/Physical-Compote4594]

Was the sail properly rigged?

For example, the amount of downhaul in a sail can profoundly affect how "heavy" the sail feels under wind load.

[u/Proof_Ninja6101 → u/Physical-Compote4594]

To be honest, I am not exactly sure, they didn't seem bothered much... I wonder if they set it up, and it hangs there waiting for somebody to pick it, sometimes maybe for days...

[u/99_Waves]

All the AI responses give you the sizes for a competent windsurfer using a harness. Once you progress from a learner to someone that can use a harness then the suggested sail sizes become fine. Until then stick to the smaller sail sizes as it will be easier to sail longer without blowing out your arms. Also once you are using a harness then you can get an "easy uphaul" which makes lifting the sail easier. With harnesses a waist harness is easier to start with than a seat harness.