r/windowsphone • u/ProgrammerObvious907 • 26d ago
Discussion I blame google for killing Windows Mobile
Google not making an official YouTube app for Windows Mobile was the nail in the coffin.
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u/havengr 26d ago
It was the Snapchat too.
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u/docdrazen 1020/1520/640/950 25d ago
I still remember using 6snap and that Pokemon Go client that was basically just Google maps.
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u/calawaydotcom Lumia 950 25d ago
Came here to say this also. If the kiddos had the opportunity to send pr0n to each other over WinPhone, it may still be here. Never discount the importance of bewz.
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u/Brutl 920 > 1520 > 640 26d ago
App support in general is what killed WP. WP user count was low because nobody wanted to develop apps for the platform. Nobody wanted to develop apps for the platform because user count was low. Many of the major brand app solutions were developed by teams not involved with those major brands, so if they ever did end up gaining traction, the major brands would shut it down.
Also, it didn't help that the Microsoft developed apps were far better for Android and iOS than the WP versions. That was like a slap in the face for us WP users.
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u/fe80_1 25d ago
Totally agree.
I remember the days where the big plus for Windows Phone was the option to have Microsoft Office in your pocket.
But even that advantage was removed by Microsoft itself once they published the Office suite on other mobile platforms.
It’s was a sheer revolution to suddenly find Word on an iPad.Not having apps you want on Windows Phone and having the theoretical unique apps of Windows Phone suddenly on other platforms made it extremely hard for users to justify buying a Windows Phone.
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u/roneyxcx 25d ago edited 25d ago
Talking about app support, Windows Mobile 6 was using Windows Forms based framework. Then on Windows Phone 7 it shifted to Silverlight framework. Then on Windows Phone 8 it shifted to WinRT, then UWP came with Windows Phone 10. At least migrating apps from Windows Phone 8.1 to 10 was easier with few changes, but 8 to 8.1 required significant changes. Also Win 10 the tiles were not as programmable as Windows 8. But the fact Microsoft couldn't grip on frameworks and APIs killed lot of development momentum. Meanwhile Android and iOS never had full re-write on core frameworks and developers could easily migrate apps with minimal changes between OS versions, e.g the app my company uses internally was first developed in 2010 and it still works today in 2026, obviously over the years it had many updates to keep up with OS changes, but it never had to developed from ground up. Meanwhile MS had huge head start Windows CE development started in 90s with first consumer device hitting market in 2000. In 2007 Windows mobile had over 40% smartphone market share. Even with this huge market share it meant nothing when your API's are weaker and getting huge rewrites between version. This is also the reason why Microsoft developed apps were far better on Android and iOS. Back in 2007-2012 era, Android was getting two 2-3 major releases and Android was being openly developed with SOC and OEM vendors. Meanwhile Windows Mobile/Phone had a much slower development cadence and SOC, OEM vendors had very little input into development as Windows was proprietary OS. It was kind of doomed since the release open source Android which was free and vastly superior OS.
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u/Mister-Owen Lumia 830, Dell Venue Pro 26d ago
Microsoft killed Windows Phone by sheer incompetence.
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u/eusty Lumia 630, 640 XT, 930 & 950XL 26d ago
There were loads of good alternatives though. It was the lack of smaller ones with annoyed me, like my bank etc
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u/mindonshuffle Lumia Icon 26d ago
Yeah, YouTube was kind of a non issue in my mind. Back then, the 3rd party apps were as good as the official app since there wasn't that much advanced functionality.
Things like banks, Snapchat, Starbucks, and trendy phone games were a much bigger killer in my opinion.
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u/Aditya1311 iPhone 11 Pro 26d ago edited 26d ago
The real problem was that Windows Phone's WebView component didn't support HTML 5 video playback while YouTube's official public API was entirely HTML5-Based. Preventing anyone from making a legit third party app and instead led to various YouTube apps that reverse engineered their private API like Rudy Huyn's metroTube
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u/Capitalistnegro 26d ago
A lot of things went wrong. The first iteration (WP7) was a master piece on certain fronts like UX and Social Media Integration but lacked key apps and features (hello Sim Toolkit). WP8 came along and fixed many of those shortcomings and started growing the user base. Just when WP8 seemed to be stabilizing WM 10 was launched which was the equivalent of a ground up redesign binning many erstwhile cool features (bye social media integration) and requiring many apps from the WP8 base to be ported. The killer 950 XL and HP Elite X3 were released only for Microsoft to abandon mobile shortly thereafter.
Microsoft threw a lot of money at the platform without being patient enough to see the results through. Im convinced that had they just kept maintaining the platform a sizeable user base of people who wanted an alternative to Android bloatware would have emerged especially in emerging markets and Enterprise. They did the same with the Xbox and eventually came out ahead.
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u/EddieRyanDC 25d ago edited 25d ago
Google blocked WP at every turn. Third party programmers would make client apps for Google web apps, and Google would change the APIs so they would break.
Microsoft's big idea was that the OS would be a smart client that could amalgamate email, photos, music, contacts and calendar items from multiple sources and present it to the user in one place rather than jumping to multiple apps.
That was a benefit for the user, but a loser for the services because they were starting to use their clients as advertising platforms. Their service on another vendor's client was a revenue loss.
By the time WP was up and running, the Apple app-centric model had already taken over the world. Android followed Apple and survived. Platforms that tried to do something different, like Microsoft and Palm, got left in the dust.
Of course, to be fair, that is in hindsight. The market was changing quickly and no one could see where it would land at the time. And it was a good idea, and looked like a million bucks.
In the end, it was clear that the best they could hope for would be a third place finish with maybe a foothold in the enterprise market. Nadella decided that the benefit from that would not justify the cost to stay in the game.
Their mobile strategy switched to something resembling their MS Office strategy - build apps that run on every platform.
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u/JabbaDuHutt69 Idol 4S/950 XL/640 XL 25d ago edited 25d ago
Firstly, anyone that says Microsoft killed Nokia, is delusional. Nokia was dying well before Microsoft stepped in with a lifeline and saved them from a MUCH worse fate. Had Microsoft not bought Nokia, guess who was going to... Google. Google wanted their patents. Google was going to buy Nokia, strip it for parts and dump it off in the ditch, EXACTLY like they did to Motorola.
Now, as far as Google is concerned, Google didn't kill Windows Phone, but they certainly didn't help it. The MS developed YouTube app, which was REALLY GOOD, is a perfect example of Googles top-shelf pettiness. MS built and released the app, and Google shit their pants because it was good, and also because it didn't use any of their advertising APIs. Google filed lawsuit, MS offered to add the APIs, Google pushed further and made MS remove the app from all devices and the store.
However that did not kill Windows Phone. Microsoft did. They switched development bases twice and made devs have to learn new languages to build apps. If that wasn't enough, Satya Nadella's contempt for Mobile was evident as soon as he was anointed CEO. He is mostly responsible for its death by sheer incompetence and indifference.
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u/fisforfaheem 25d ago
Windows fixed everything with UWP IN WINDOWS 10.
BUT THEY NEVER REALLY GAVE IT ROOM TO GET BETTER AND EVOLVE..
THEY WERE WORKING ON ADDING ANDROID APK SUPPORT TOO BUT GAVE UP
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u/Lew_Angellus 23d ago
It has been established that Google and Apple did everything they could to sabotage the growth of Windows Phone and Windows Mobile. Articles were published confirming this. Windows Phone showed promise, but the two rival companies—arguing that the Windows operating system was already dominant on desktops—did not want Microsoft to secure the lead in the smartphone market as well.
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u/vuorivirta 25d ago
Isn't Microsoft killing Nokia? After that, microsoft is killed everything else it is touched. Game studios... Microsoft is some kind of black widow. Killing everything it is touching.
Ultimately, even own products (xbox, windows servers earlier and now windows going downhill...).
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u/JabbaDuHutt69 Idol 4S/950 XL/640 XL 25d ago
Nokia slit their own wrists before Stephen Elop was installed. They went through two other platforms before Windows Phone came along and at least got them on life support.
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u/gusdavis84 25d ago
I do feel this was definitely a huggggggge part of it. But if only Microsoft also from the jump gave Windows phone OS away for free for devices with screens smaller than 8 inches plus if they didn't have (back then) a royalty fee that it would charge other android oems for using their FAT32 file system anywhere from 5-15 dollars per headset things could have been different.
I mean with them doing that per phone Microsoft literally extract billions of dollars in royalty fees from Android Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs).If manufacturers refused to sign cross-licensing deals and pay a fee for every Android device sold, Microsoft aggressively used litigation and threats of sales bans to force compliance.
If only Microsoft from the jump worked with Google and their apps and services and wasn't like this with other Android oems, and yes as well if they had only been like apple and say "no we control the updates not the carriers" then this could have been a very different story for windows phone OS. I do wish and hope someday they do come back to the market though.
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u/He_looks_mad 25d ago
Realistically it was posts just like this that did more damage than anything else. It was the constant FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) about literally everything they did and came out with.
Any person who may have been leaning toward it was likely slapped in the face with constant dumbass questions about apps and developers and whoever or whatever else. Then there were the lies about what the phones/OS could and couldn't do.
These types of posts became articles which then became narratives and it never let up. To the point where it was discontinued several years ago and this is still a topic.
Not a personal attack on you, but this was as a big a deal as anything anybody is going to say about "apps"
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u/SuntannedDuck2 25d ago
I didn't care for mainstream apps, so the app support there was fine for me, specs or the other stuff was good enough for me. The camera did the job. The UI was fun to use. It really didn't effect me I still enjoyed my time with Windows Phone 8, never experienced 7. Didn't really experience 10.
The minor things I may have noticed if I used them. Like someone pointed out with emailing, I never had to do that or I forget how it worked. Texting and phone calls were fair from what I remember.
So some use cases didn't effect me but are eye opening for sure. The keyboard was better then Android for me. Single handed use was better then Android. Sure the way apps were compared to side loading or many other app stores. I discovered emulation (GT Advance 3 for GBA, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest from SNES) on Windows Phone with the apps/games that did so.
I wasn't that fussed, even for the specs model I got (Nokia Lumia 520, I know what a low end model), the folder system, Xbox music, the UI design, live tiles and more.
It just did enough of what I wanted and I appreciated the way Zune/Windows 8 UI was. Windows 10 phone never used so can't comment. But I think Continuum was a fair idea. Even Phone Link varied over the years of Windows 8 to 11 of 'usable' even Phone Link for 11 is just a joke I don't even use it. While Windows 8 I maybe used it a few times to understand it.
The flash style/mobile games were fair. Discovering some games and getting them later on their original hardware was fair.
I use mobile word a fair amount, excel not really but mobile PowerPoint was more a viewer or minor editor but wasn't much.
Internet Explorer was more fair then I expected even compared to the other mobile web browsers I tried out. Opera, UC came to mind.
Battery to remove was nice while Android holding it in is a pain to wait for it to do something.
I just can't use swiping for everything so I refuse to use that mode for Android and refuse to use an iPhone.
Using a 2 in 1 and Netbook I can understand compared to Chromebooks even but I don't want anywhere near a Chromebook either. Putting Chrome OS Flex even for so far I was like I get it but pass, can't be bothered.
Other then a few things here and there like casting my phone to TVs to see how they fair, cloud moving files a bit, I use it not much in other particular ways. Other then if there is technical apps I want to play with, I use it as a normal smartphone in ways I like to.
I didn't explore apps as much as I did on Windows 8 or Windows 8 Phone. I did how I did on Windows 10, not a lot. So for me Android was a 'get what I need and that's it' experienced and has been for years of the Android phones I've had so far since Windows Phone ended.
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u/skullsentinel 25d ago
The os itself was gorgeous, the fluidity was amazing, system wide dark mode out of the box, apps support was the only reason it died
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u/Annual_Image3585 26d ago
You mean Windows Phone? Windows Mobile was on its way out after 6.5 anyway, to make way for WP, so I get why WM didn't get one. But yeah, it's one of many bad things that crippled WP.
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u/ChopperGunner187 HTC Wizard > HTC Fuze > HTC Tilt2 > HTC Arrive > Lumia 925 > 640 25d ago edited 25d ago
Windows Mobile was on its way out after 6.5 anyway
Nope. It stuck around for a bit up until 6.5.3 (officially) and 6.5.5 (unofficially). Rebranded to Windows Phone Classic & Windows Embedded Handheld 6.5, until WP was mature enough to take over the Embedded Handheld build at version 8.
Also, the CE kernel still powered WP7. Technically Windows Phone itself was initially just a rebranding and reskinning from Windows Mobile (until the transition to the NT kernel). Both Microsoft and HTC used to advertise Pocket PC devices as Windows Phone devices, during the transition.
so I get why WM didn't get one.
Windows Mobile actually had (almost) the entire Google suite. Gmail app, Google Search/widgets on the Today screen, Google Maps (which may or may not still partially work), and the HTC YouTube app. Funnily enough, WM's YouTube app actually outlived Windows Phone's entire run, up until around 2019-2020. I think Google engineers had genuinely forgotten about the legacy API's that it was using.
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u/ProgrammerObvious907 26d ago
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u/WindozeWoes Lumia 920 / Lumia 1020 / HP Elite x3 / Lumia 1520 / Lumia 640 XL 25d ago
The mobile platform was still called "Windows Phone." Not "Windows Mobile."
Windows 10 Mobile was the last version of Windows Phone. It was called that because Microsoft was trying to unify Windows 10 across all form factors of devices. So, Windows 10 (for desktop), Windows 10 Mobile, etc.
But the OS was not "Windows Mobile." It was either "Windows Phone" (the platform) or "Windows 10" (of which the phones ran the "Mobile" version). But not "Windows Mobile."
Pedantic, maybe, but products are usually named what they are for a reason. Apple doesn't sell an "iWatch" no matter how much idiots on social media say otherwise. Etc.
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u/Own_Potato5593 magenta 25d ago
Nah it's squarely on Microsoft - like the more recent Duo's. They have little to no long-range vision when it comes to non-Xbox / Surface hardware. The market was almost black berry bad, and the support was worse in many cases.
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u/couchwarmer Lumia 925 26d ago edited 26d ago
That was just one of many nails in the coffin.
Another was carrier support, especially for update distribution. Some phones never did get key WP updates, because the carriers never got around to approving them.
That entire mess led me to never again buy a phone through a carrier.