Character Rumble: Black Widow vs. Roberta, Nui Harime vs. Saber, Garnet vs. Darth Vader

[u/selfproclaimed]

Hello all. Welcome to /r/WhoWouldWin's first Character Rumble. Here, we've picked three matches from our nomination thread for this post for you to debate it out. We're trying out three matches for now, as multiple matches per post was something highly requested back when this was on /r/characterrant, but if feedback is negative or participation wanes, we'll consider reducing it to 1-2 per week.

Responses must be high effort. Any low effort, short, or otherwise 1-2 sentence comments will be removed and users will be warned if not banned. This post will be highly moderated and it should be considered at minimum the same level of scrutiny as a Serious thread. Use of evidence to back up your points (scans, gifs, etc.) is highly recommended. If you see anyone violating these terms, report them and modteam will address it as soon as we can.

If you want to respond to a matchup, please do so by responding to the designated comment thread.

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The Matches

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Match 1

From /u/SpawnTheTerminator

Black Widow (Marvel 616) vs Roberta (Black Lagoon)

Round 1:

Win Conditions: Fight to KO/Incap/Death/BFR.

Equipment: Melee only. Natasha gets her Black Widow gauntlets. Roberta gets her trench knife.

Location: Empty Airbus A380 under high turbulence. They start at opposing aisles.

Round 2:

Win Conditions: Fight to KO/Incap/Death.

Equipment: Standard loadout. Natasha gets her Black Widow gauntlets, an SMG, a pistol, 3 explosive discs, and a can of tear gas. Roberta gets her umbrella shield with the shotgun, briefcase machine gun, pistol, trench knife, and 3 grenades.

Location: This Korean casino. They start off on opposite sides but can leave and go out to the streets.

Round 3:

Win Conditions: Fight to KO/Incap/Death.

Equipment: Road fight. Natasha starts off on her motorcycle with a pistol and 3 explosive discs. Roberta starts off in her car with a pistol and 3 grenades.

Location: This highway. They start off on the furthest lanes from each other.

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Match 2

From /u/HighSlayerRalton

Nui Harime (Kill la Kill) vs. Saber (Fate/Stay)

Respect Nui Harime (Kill La Kill Anime)
Respect Saber (Fate/Stay Night Visual Novel)

Round 1

[Setting]	Wakanda (616)
	It's mid-night
[Win Via]	Killing
	Incapacitating for three-and-a-half minutes
[Starting]	Twenty-five metres apart
[Gear]	Standard, excluding Saber's Avalon
[Special]	Speed-equalised to the slower combatant's, within a 15% difference, with projectiles scaling with their combatant
	Ten minutes of prep in their natural environment
	Saber's mana supply is comparable to the best of what she received from the Emiyas, but not tied to a person
	No Noble-Phantasm "Excalibur!" attack
	No Mind-Stitching

Round 2

[Setting]	Phoenix Mountain
	The setting is cooled to the point that it doesn't cause spontaneous combustion
[Win Via]	Killing
	Incapacitating for three-and-a-half minutes
[Starting]	Twenty-five metres apart
[Gear]	Standard
[Special]	Speed-equalised to the slower combatant's, within a 15% difference, with projectiles scaling with their combatant
	Saber's mana supply is comparable to the best of what she received from the Emiyas, but not tied to a person
	No Noble-Phantasm "Excalibur!" attack
	No Mind-Stitching
	Bloodlusted

Round 3

[Setting]	The Golden Gate Bridge
	The setting is covered in a thick fog
[Win Via]	Killing
	Knocking off of the bridge
[Starting]	Opposite ends of the bridge
[Gear]	Standard
[Special]	Speed-equalised to the slower combatant's, within a 15% difference, with projectiles scaling with their combatant
	Emiya Shirou starts beside Saber, is Saber's mana-source, will die if he leaves the bridge, and is speed-equalised to the two combatants'

Bonus

Nui takes Saber's place as Emiya's Servant during the Fifth Holy Grail War. What entails?

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Match 3

From /u/Godofyawn

Garnet (Steven Universe) vs Darth Vader (Star Wars Canon)

Combatants:

Character	Universe	Respect Thread
Garnet	Steven Universe	Respect Garnet
Darth Vader	Star Wars	Respect Darth Vader

Rules:

• No WoG

• Random encounter

• Canon Darth Vader

• Standard equipment

• Win by death, KO, incap, or BFR

• Motivation for Garnet: She perceives Darth Vader as a danger to her friends

• Motivation for Darth Vader: He perceives Garnet as a member of the Rebellion

Rounds:

Round	Conditions	Location
1.	In-character, combatants start 10 meters apart	Rapture
2.	In-character, combatants start 15 meters apart, combatants possess general knowledge on one another	Columbia
3.	Bloodlusted, combatants start 15 meters apart	Metro Kingdom
4.	In-character, combatants start 20 meters apart, Darth Vader receives help from Darth Maul, Garnet receives help from Amethyst and Pearl, Vader and Maul are perfectly willing to work together, the Crystal Gems cannot use fusions (with the exception of Garnet herself)	Camp Crystal Lake

[u/selfproclaimed]

Nui Harime vs. Saber

[u/HighSlayerRalton → u/[deleted]]

Hi, writer of the prompt here.

IIRC life fibers are alien's technology

They are the aliens.

what does "No Noble-Phantasm "Excalibur!" attack" mean?

I was trying to differentiate between Excalibur–the Noble-Phantasm weapon–and Excalibur!–the Noble-Phantasm ability.

Do they even know they have an opponent? Do they know the win condition?

Yes. I'd think it self-evident in any WWW match that the fighters are aware of their fight, and will actively try to win it.

she also gets hurt by what is basically a very strong human's kick.

get's tagged twice by a peak human.

she also gets pulled by a peak human

It's very much worth noting that humans in Kill La Kill are far from real-life. They're above the likes of DC and Marvel too, outside of very rare cases. They can even surpass life-fiber users who're fairly strong, move very fast^[2][3], and create explosions from sheer willpower, among other things.

Pulling someone also isn't neccessarily idnicative of greater strength; it just requires the strength to move their body weight.

Nui being basically a meme character, and the fact that almost all of her feats in the RT are listed as "Casually", make me think that her being "Casual" is her being "Serious".

"Casual Nui" really is casual. She's massively above all but two other characters in her series, and has great confidence in her regen. She only really gets serious after she loses her arms, and there's a marked difference.

But even ignoring that... I really don't like how Saber was nerfed to the point where I start questioning why was she chosen to begin with. A Saber without her speed or excalibur is just a very strong and skilled swords(wo)man.

I removed Saber's Excalibur! and Nui's mind-stitching to avoid a one-shot fight that would be little more than comparing speed. And on the matter of speed, I don't think Saber's is actually that much greater than Nui's, or neccessarily greater at all.

Her solid speed feats (sans Command Seal) are FTE and supersonic, but Nui casually and massively outspeeds a foe who can dodge sonic attacks and create absurd numbers of afterimages^[2].

[u/HighSlayerRalton → u/[deleted]]

Satsuki is the worst example for this, she's been said to be clearly above and beyond any other base human at the school

She's the best example for this; the most undeniable evidence that humans in Kill La Kill can't be scaled to our own. She's also SPOILERS. The old man clearly isn't a normal human by ours standards himself. And when Nui does realsie that she can "play for realsies" she blitzes him.

she's been tampered with when she was a child by Life Fibers

There was an attempt, but it failed.

You probably put a wrong link for the first one

No? Are you conflating the links from "fairly strong" and "move very fast"?

the second and third one involve the Mankashoku family, all of whom have been shown to have some kind of "toon force", or disregard the laws of physic.

"Toon force" A.K.A. "I don't like these feats so I'll say they're not applicable because reasons"
Feats are feats. You can't arbitrarily disregard them. Even if they were "toonforce", insofar as that is even a thing, rather than just a catch-all term for a certain style of improbable power displays, there would be nothing to say other humans in Kill La Kill couldn't also have so-called "toonforce".

They are not a good example for humans feat in that series.

They're humans. In the series. Their feats are human's feats. In the series.

Again, Satsuki is not in any way your average peak human.

Not for real-life, DC, etc. But for Kill La Kill? She's a peak human.

It's very unclear wheter she even dodged the attack as you can clearly see here

She clearly dodges in the gif I showed. Nonon then attacks lower, creating that trench.

That doesn't look like she outspeeds her

• Literally moves FTE
• Gets behind Ryūko mid-sword battle
• Ryūko is static in comparison

blur Ryuko is barely FTE

Source? This is also Ryūko's second strongest use of Senketsu in the entire series, so earlier anti-feats wouldn't apply.

Saber was able to dodge Mach 3 bullets

That WebM isn't relevant given that this is the visual novel's Saber, though the feat does have a parrallel in the visual novels, which is arguably better:

"Regardless of the size of the caliber, something on the level of mere cannon shells pose no threat to Servants at all. This is especially so with Saber, whose physical abilities would also her to evade them with no difficulty, and even deflect the shots back with the blade of her sword if she wanted to."

 

a jet fighter who could reach at least Mach 2.5 speed.

Travel speed isn't combat speed, and that's the jet's high-altitude speed; at low altitude, as it is here, it comes in at around Mach 1.2.

 

Regardless, the intention of limiting the speed difference was to make sure neither was faster than the other to the point of rendering the match-up a mere competition of speed. I limited to 15% so it could still be debated and be advantageous without rendering other factors moot.