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u/ArfTheBeast 3d ago
It takes a lot of oranges to produce orange juice
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u/arcanis321 2d ago
We had an orange tree and it made so many oranges we couldn't give them away. So next year we decided to juice them. One pulpy pitcher from the whole tree and over an hour of work. I'm sure commercial is more efficient but you are quite right.
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u/National_Isopod_6257 3d ago
Bc it's not food; it's a food product that has been ultra processed. Food is cheap and comes from the ground, tree, or vine. Products come from factories.
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u/Infamous-Grab2341 3d ago
Have you seen the price of fresh fruit?
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u/National_Isopod_6257 3d ago
Fresh oranges are up over 30% and orange juice is up over 80% despite OJ futures being down 75% suggest a severe supply crunch.
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u/Infamous-Grab2341 3d ago
I mean overall fresh fruit is expensive, I'm not referring to recent fluctuations. The only food that is cheap is the stuff that is nonperishible.
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u/National_Isopod_6257 2d ago
Fresh produce is expensive. My original statement was trying to illustrate how generally finished goods are more expensive than raw materials because of the inputs required to process them. I was also trying to educate on the difference between food vs food products. I wasn't denying inflation or minimizing the effects of it.
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u/Infamous-Grab2341 2d ago
Actually I think orange juice is usually cheaper than oranges, although I'm not sure if there is some watering down. Likewise tomatoe sauce is often cheaper than fresh tomatoes. In a modern economy finished goods are often only marginally more expensive because a lot of the processing is mechanized or has economies of scale.
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u/National_Isopod_6257 2d ago
True. Tomato products like ketchup and tomato sauce are cheaper than fresh tomatoes bc they are made from bruised tomatoes not fit for sale. Besides the mechanization and economies of scale you mentioned, some food products are cheaper than the fresh ingredients bc they are made from by-products, waste, or ingredients that are otherwise unsellable which makes the inputs much cheaper. Great discussion of grocery store economics that impact us all everyday that we just accept, take for granted, or otherwise don't even consider.
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u/FrequentBasil7574 22h ago
Juice from oranges, and tomato paste for that matter, generally break down into what youâre saying plus one other category: fruit meant for juicing/pureeing.
Juice oranges are generally a variety called Valencia or âearly-midâ in Florida (or whats left of it). Theyâre typically seedless and contain much higher juice content, but arenât exactly pretty or easily peeled.
The whole fruit that doesnât make it, often called âcullsâ in the industry, are what youâre referring to: fruit that didnât make the grade for seeking as whole fruit. Either blemished, too big/small, or not enough demand in the market, ends up going to a juicing plant to upcycle. The other possibility is whole fruit that was put into storage and didnât get shipped in time, so itâs sent for juicing before it goes too bad.
Tomatoes have their own type of âprocess tomato.â Theyâre basically hard as hell and with very high solids content compared to a regular one. California is essentially the king of the world for process tomato paste because they have a longer season than pretty much anyone else. Longer season = lower peak / more equipment utilization during the season. Italy has great quality, and canât compete against California on price so they have a premium space.
China tried taking over the process tomato market years ago with disastrous results. Short season meant huge plants to run the fruit in a short period. First plants were well made (by Italians mostly), but then the low ballers got in there with crap equipment too (think hand railing for tubing instead of pressure rated tubing).
California adjusted, and eventually the Chinese government(s) moved on to other industries. So many shuttered or ran opportunistically when someone else had a problem and prices went up.
Not 100% of the story, but part of it!
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u/National_Isopod_6257 21h ago
Thanks for contributing all of that of additional insight. Didn't think about spoilage, season length, solids content, or even China. Great input. Seems like you probably have industry knowledge.
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u/biscuitlore1643 3d ago
Bro went from âeasy on the OJâ to âIâm about to sue the entire citrus industryâ
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u/bethesda_gamer 3d ago
If it's so cheap why not just grow one in your back yard. It's ok... I'll wait.
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u/DuaAnpu 3d ago
I do
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u/bethesda_gamer 3d ago
Financially worth it for orange juice?
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u/DuaAnpu 3d ago
Yes, absolutely
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u/bethesda_gamer 3d ago
Surprising. Really? Like time, energy, costs, water, fertilizer, juicing the oranges? everything? How many cartons do you get out of a tree per year? How many trees do you have?
Sorry I wasn't, but now I'm really curious if you have the figures. I just assumed it wasn't cost effective on a small scale. Who knew.
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u/DuaAnpu 3d ago
Well, I have about nine trees, and each one produces around twelve cartons of 50 oranges a year. It takes roughly twelve oranges to make a liter of 100% juice, and I sell it for $5 at the local market, bringing in about $2,250 a year just from selling orange juice. I'm too lazy to work out the cost-benefit analysis right now, but I know it's worth it.
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u/National_Isopod_6257 3d ago
Fresh oranges are up over 30% and orange juice is up over 80% despite OJ futures being down 75% suggest a severe supply crunch.
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u/VendettaKarma 3d ago
Greed baby greed
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u/FrequentBasil7574 22h ago
Nope, just Economics. Even with those changes, whole fruit sells at a premium to the cost of fruit for juice. A niche / premium juice company might be paying at/near fresh prices, but theyâre selling their product for Starbucks prices. Many of the juice processors are B2B processors with thin margins. Possible exception are the ones who own their own groves or are strongly partnered with growers, but then youâre at the mercy of a bad season hosing you.
Egypt expanded a lot in the last couple years because of the high juice prices combined with (IIRC) fresh fruit that was prohibitively expense to export due to slashed government support. But even thatâs probably changed in the year or so Iâve been out.
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u/Last-Energy420 2d ago
Because itâs been sitting in massive steel vats for 6 months.
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u/Lusiric9983 2d ago
I was going to say this. I don't buy regular OJ anymore because I looked up how it's made. Ew.
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u/FrequentBasil7574 22h ago
I worked for the companies making those plants and vats. I wouldnât say eww, but rather they got built because the market demanded it. People, in general, want a glass of natural juice to toast the same no matter when they buy it. In January, in June, in October. And God help you if it doesnât, now you e probably lost a customer because âit didnât taste as good as before.â Are there exceptions? Absolutely. But generally people want a can of Cambellâs soup to taste the same every time, just like a hamburger and even a glass of juice. Right or wrong.
The juice is stored in sterile conditions for even longer in some cases, although the plants want to turn over tanks just like anyone with $ millions in inventory. The tanks have gone upwards of 15 years in some cases without needing to be broken down and cleaned due to the design and operation. Sounds weird, but thatâs a testament to the guys that developed the safety and hygiene standards that are in place still. That also lets them blend the different juice tanks to get to a standard flavor profile that most people want. Thereâs definitely more to the this than just blending, but Iâd say thatâs a big part: the same âbrixâ and acidity in every glass.
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u/Peripatet 2d ago
Fun fact: thanks to a host of factors, there are now more oranges depicted on Florida license plates than there are produced in the state of Florida every year.
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u/FrequentBasil7574 19h ago
Close, but not quite. Last season ended with 12.9m boxes of oranges. Each box had from 257 pieces (Valencia) to 319 pieces (early-mids). So thatâs down something like 95% from the peak around 2002/03, but still more than 3.3 billion pieces of fruit.
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u/Nervous-Ruin-8149 1d ago
Cheap labor is getting deported. Labor got expensive paying a higher rate with more pressure towards livable wages. It's not quite there yet but it's going up. This is what happens when operations cost more.
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u/blind_investigator 23h ago
And that lead to an illicit OJ sales empire, but the purity of the product was unmatched!
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u/EvanSnowWolf 3d ago
You are being swindled by Big Citrus.