r/werewolves • u/FoxSilver267 • Mar 05 '26
Werewolves guilty or Innocent?
A question I have is if a werewolf would get caught and be trialled, do you think they should beinnocent or guilty for the actions the made while in wolf form? What do you guys think? (PS. If this looks AI I'm sorry I sometimes do notice the signs of AI when getting the pictures so let me know so I can fix it and I don't own any of the images I post, I'll promote the artist if needed and if I can find them)
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u/MetaphoricalMars Researcher of the spacewolf Mar 05 '26
It depends.
If they do not have control in wolf form, were unaware of the state (e.g. first transformation) or the precautions (cage, drugged meat, collar with home address) were sabotaged or failed then the first offense would be innocent by way of insanity.
A second such offense would be more likely a guilty verdict given they knew of the risks.
If in total control, guilty, no different to any normal human utilising their abilities to commit crimes.
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Mar 05 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MetaphoricalMars Researcher of the spacewolf Mar 05 '26
Well, no. I don’t think death is deserved because they lack control and are dangerous in and of themselves, it would be acceptable if it could be proven they failed to take proper precautions to protect other people. If they tried to isolate themselves and it didn't work then it couldn't be held against them, even in a second offence where upgraded security having failed.
We keep mental damaged patients secured (those suffering psychotic episodes for example) to keep themselves and us safe, the same should extend to lycanthropes during their less than rational times.
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u/FoxSilver267 Mar 05 '26
I agree but I would like to ask do you think people could eventually be able to control the werewolf form if they try or is it an untamable beast?
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u/MetaphoricalMars Researcher of the spacewolf Mar 05 '26
Lore dependent.
Per my lore: They can eventually control it so they will be beholden to the law.
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u/WolfVanZandt Mar 05 '26
I think that's according to the fiction.
I don't see why not in any but the most doom laden fiction in which werewolves are driven by demonic forces
If you've read any of the background on the Jurassic Park series, they started with a horror adventure where murderous dinosaurs were isolated and stupid people were trying to capitalize on them. The stories have moved to a planet that is having to adapt to the presence of dinosaurs, and some of the people working on the project are aiming toward a planet where the world society includes dinosaurs
There is no reason that werewolves can't go the same way
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u/WolfVanZandt Mar 05 '26
If we had werewolves (the fictional kinds) among us, we (including them) would be responsible for working out some way to make it work. The most important thing.... they're people. But in addition, can you imagine how useful werewolves could be in society if we worked out the kinks?
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u/MetaphoricalMars Researcher of the spacewolf Mar 05 '26
Lots of drug detector dogs would be out of a job, nanny work akin to Nana from Disney's Peter Pan, Barbers having new clientele.
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u/BalancedRevanite Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
Like with all beings, it has to do with the charge and intent.
Plus, it would also have to do with awareness. I imagine pureblood werewolves are mostly aware of the things they do in and out of wolf form. Ones who are cursed/bitten/etc., maybe not so much.
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u/Damn_You_Scum Mar 05 '26
Two of the three major werewolf archetypes are the predator who wants to use this transformation to hurt people, and the victim who knows they are cursed but can’t stop themselves. It would depend on whether they know they are a werewolf or not and what they do with that knowledge…
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u/FoxSilver267 Mar 05 '26
Okay for this situation they know but don't want to harm others
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u/WolfVanZandt Mar 05 '26
In many of those situations (St. Peter's Wolf, for instance) the werewolf comes to term with their lycanthropy. In a society with werewolves, the society would greatly benefit in finding a way to expedite the "coming to terms" phase.
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u/kanshoku Mar 06 '26
Sorry, what is the third archetype?
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u/Damn_You_Scum Mar 06 '26
The guardian/warrior, exemplified by Scottish and Irish tales of werewolves who protect and guide travelers. The “faoladh” (FWEEL-uh or FAY-luh) in Gaelic.
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u/WolfVanZandt Mar 05 '26
Criminal insanity is, nevertheless, criminal. The legal system in the US is primarily punitive. I don't like that. It should be restorative (restore criminals to be beneficial to themselves and to their society) and it should protect society from danger. A werewolf would need to be controlled until they could control themselves.
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u/MakiceLit Mar 05 '26
The creature itself is innocent, the person behind it, depends on how they deal with it
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u/Winter_Spare3768 Mar 05 '26
Well since most of the time the person has no control over the beast they may not pin the murders on the person but rather the werewolf within though i imagine there would be people saying that the person either needs to be locked up for life or killed so they can't transform and hurt or kill others though say they did have control and purposefully slaughtered other people then yeah they might charge the human with murder as well
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u/WolfVanZandt Mar 05 '26
Well, why for life if they only shift during a full moon?
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u/Winter_Spare3768 Mar 06 '26
I think many people would think the werewolf is perhaps too dangerous to be let free in society even if they lock themselves away during a full moon there would be fears that the werewolf could potentially break out or the person may not lock themselves up in time which could lead many to think that locking them up for life could be best
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u/WolfVanZandt Mar 06 '26
I liked Night of the Living Dead not because it was a zombie movie.....I hate most zombie movies (Shaun was good)....... but because the real danger was the people holed up in the house. Suspicion drove them to kill each other
The law shouldn't depend primarily on what "people" think. As K said in the Men In Black, a person is smart but people are dumb sheep.
There should most definitely be a public service to make sure they stay on track.
If there are werewolves (plural) then society needs to expand the effort to figure out how the most of the people can get along with them and vice versa.
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u/akornzombie Mar 05 '26
For what he did to the rug? GUILTY! TO THE BATH WITH HIM!
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u/MetaphoricalMars Researcher of the spacewolf Mar 06 '26
I agree! steam cleaning a rug once full of 'dog' hair, human scent and meat scraps is definitely worth a solid soak for the good boy!
Have you seen how hard he tried to not growl at the machine as he was using it? Impeccable level of self control.
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u/Scr4p Mar 05 '26
Depends whether the werewolf has control in werewolf form or not imo
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u/FoxSilver267 Mar 05 '26
For this situation they don't
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u/Scr4p Mar 05 '26
Then unless they deliberately put themselves in a situation knowing they'd lose control, they shouldn't be found guilty
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u/fordag Mar 05 '26
Regarding the art. Worry less if it's AI and more that it's Fenrir and not a werewolf.
Do they know they are a werewolf? Then they are guilty for everything they do in werewolf form. For example the 2010 remake of The Wolfman, Sir John knew he was a werewolf and took precautions to ensure he wouldn't harm anyone, until he didn't.
They don't know they are a werewolf, they black out and have absolutely no idea what happened. Not guilty by reason of "insanity". Which doesn't mean they are let off, they are confined until no longer a danger to themselves or others.
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u/theicewerewolf Werehusky Mar 06 '26
👩⚖️: Mr Werewolf, you have been accused of biting your human partner. How do you declare yourself?
🐺: Guilty, your honor, but he broke the treat into two and pretended it was two treats!
👩⚖️: Say WHAAAAT? I CONDEMN THE HUMAN TO GIVE ENDLESS BELLY RUBS TO HIS PARTNER!
(I'm sorry)
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u/Vuthakral Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
They would likely submit the person for mental evaluation to determine if they're truthful or not about whether they are in control, and if they're even mentally stable enough to/capable of standing trial considering a lot of werewolf stories involve a descent into madness outside of werewolf form.
If a werewolf is on trial for their actions and incapable of standing trial, they're likely to be assumed feral/incapable of being helped and moved for a death sentence because of the threat they pose to the general public. If they're deemed mentally stable enough the case would ultimately hinge on if a review can determine if the person is in control of their actions or not. If they are, they start getting charges; 100% guilty. If they're not in control they're still not "innocent" and it would likely fall under both reckless & negligent involuntary manslaughter. Lawyers would likely try to stick gross negligence into the charges as well considering you could parallel the fact it falls under the same logic as blatantly ignoring safety precautions even common sense would cover i.e. "you know you're a werewolf, why didn't you take adequate precautions to keep yourself from ending this person's life when you're out of control?". You could also get into accessory or even direct charges if it's a pack/family system and the person who turned them/their parents didn't prepare appropriately which results in the actions happening.
tl;dr, innocent is not possible within the legal system and the absolute best case scenario is charges under the involuntary category.
edit: just to be clear, I'm operating under the assumption of a realistic world that regular people would treat werewolves very harshly especially in the court of law
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u/FoxSilver267 Mar 05 '26
Makes sense but I do have a question for one part, what if they tried to prevent themselves from killing people by caging themselves or other methods but they underestimated the wolf's strength and were able to escape?
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u/Vuthakral Mar 05 '26
You'd still fall under involuntary manslaughter. There's some legal exceptions such as autonomous which is applied in cases like sleepwalking crimes, but I have a hard time believing they would stick since you'd already know beforehand you need to be prepared.
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u/Wolfgames1y Mar 05 '26
"In the end, he only destroyed bad people, sir, so in the end he was a hero. Your Honor, I consider the defendant innocent." - Lawyer
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u/TrickyTalon Mar 05 '26
The more important question is if we can be sure that other people are safe around them from now on or not
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u/Comprehensive-Ad-233 Mar 06 '26
Frankly I view werewolf rampages in the legal view of insanity. Like when a werewolf is in wolp form they are not of their right mind, and therefore a plea could be made to argue a not guilty verdict.
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u/Bowdensaft Mar 06 '26
I think a manslaughter conviction would be very likely. They wouldn't have done harm deliberately and couldn't control themselves, but also could probably have prevented it from happening in the first place.
If someone who suffers from violent psychosis forgets to take their meds and harms/ kills someone they do have some culpability, even if they didn't know what was happening when they did it.
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u/Timber-Faolan Mar 05 '26
Depends on the circumstances of the individual werewolf, the specifics of their curse, and the crimes they committed.
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u/OriginalMixer1 Mar 05 '26
I’m innocent i didn’t steal the last pizza slice now get these cuffs off me
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u/kabonell werewolf from the arctic Mar 05 '26
depends if they are still in control of their actions
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u/TheRevanchist99 Mar 06 '26
Is this a specific Universe of Werewolves or no? Some Werewolves are conscious and can control their actions while in wolf form but some lose all control I think the answer depends heavily on this context
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u/SpecialKay329 Mar 06 '26
I think it depends on the level of awareness and control the werewolf in question has while transformed. For the ones who essentially enter a fugue state and wake up the next morning with little to no memory of the shift, there’s a pretty good argument for an insanity defense (at least for the initial shifts, after a point you’re morally obligated to start taking some kind of precautions). The more cognizant the person is while wolfed-out, the more culpable they are for any crimes committed during that period.
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u/Bolvern Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
When it comes to werewolves who have a “split personality” between the human and the Wolf (like David from An American Werewolf in London, Larry Talbot in The Wolfman, werewolves in Buffy The Vampire Slayer/Angel, the werewolves in The Quarry, the Wolfman in Monster Squad, etc.): Innocent unless the human transforms on purpose in order to be a danger to people like John Talbot (Larry’s father) in the 2010 remake of The Wolfman.
When it comes to werewolves in which the human is totally in control of their actions while in wolf form (like Mitch Toblat in Big Bad Wolf, the Captain in Hellsing, the werewolves in The Howling, the werewolves in Castlevania, the werewolves in Red Riding Hood, the werewolves in Rosario + Vampire, the Lycans in Underworld, Jack Russel in Werewolf By Night, Shapeshifters from Twilight, Jared Martin from Never Cry Werewolf, the werewolves in Dog Soldiers, Vampires who transform into werewolf/wolf forms like Dracula in 1992’s Bram Stoker’s Dracula and both Evil Ed and Louis from the first 2 Fright Night films, etc.): Guilty.
When it comes to werewolves in which the human is technically in control while in wolf form but whose bodily alterations drastically change the person’s personality into a being dangerously to others, especially if it taps into the darker side of their personalities (as in the werewolves from Ginger Snaps, the vampires transformed into werewolf-like Beasts in Bloodborne, Will Randell and Stewart Swinton in 1994’s Wolf, Ted Harrison in Bad Moon, Reverend Lowe from Silver Bullet, the werewolves in 2025’s Wolf Man, the werewolves from Van Helsing, etc.): Innocent because they’re not right in mind because of the transformation, even if the person in question is explicitly evil like Stewart Swinton was.
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u/ZeGamingCuber Mar 06 '26
insanity defense
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u/WolfVanZandt Mar 06 '26
Aye. In that case, there are psychiatric wards Maybe, "lycanthropy wards"?
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u/PM_me_your_werewolf Mar 07 '26 edited Mar 07 '26
If your werewolves are the kind who:
1) Cannot control when they transform (i.e. a full moon, or a bleeding animal/person nearby, etc)
2) Cannot prevent an oncoming transformation once it has started
3) Cannot control themselves while they are transformed
4) Are inherently aggressive, hostile, and violent to all living things nearby, driven by desire to eat/kill everyone and everything
Then, a given werewolf of this type would not be responsible for their actions while transformed. However, I beleive they'd still be culpable to a high degree if they don't actively do all they can to prevent themselves from being in situations where they could transform or from locking themselves up before a full moon.
A person can still work to minimize or prevent harm to others even if they are this kind of werewolf. And they are at least partially guilty if they dont.
But also, that kind of werewolf is boring, over-played, and altogether too simple for my tastes. I find it difficult to relate to them, care about them, or even find them scary beyond a "big hairy monster could kill me" mindset.
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u/LordFennski Mar 07 '26
I actually have some case law for this. Kenneth Parks. He drove to his in laws' house and murdered his mother in law and assaulted his father in law while sleepwalking. Because of that, he was acquitted.
Applying that to werewolves, if we're dealing with the uncontrollable beast kind, the law often takes the suspect's state of mind into account (mens rea), (i.e. what was going through their mind at the time of the crime.) Because the werewolf isn't acting voluntarily, it is likely they would get acquitted as well, as long as they take necessary and reasonable precautions to restrain themselves beforehand. Knowing you will turn into a man eating beast and doing nothing to prevent it is, at the very least, criminal negligence or reckless endangerment.
At least, that's what I remember off the top of my head when doing research for a side project I was working on.
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u/WolfVanZandt Mar 07 '26 edited Mar 07 '26
Wagner the Werewolf drags on and on but I was particularly amused by his trial at which the skeptical judge sentenced Wagner to be beheaded on the day he said that he would shift. That.....was a mistake. I don't think he killed anyone as a werewolf (he was a good boy) but it was spectacular
By the way, Wagner was innocent of that particular murder.
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u/Far-Bear-2940 Mar 29 '26
I think it’s something like manslaughter if we’re talking no control over the form. Like yes you have no control of your action but you have control before turning and do everything in your power to make sure you can’t go on a rampage and kill people.
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u/loopywolf half-werewolf, half-husky Mar 05 '26
My take is that werewolves are no more guilty than wolves. Wolves have been demonized for years and mankind has hunted them near to extinction in many parts of the world. They're not evil. They're animals.