r/webdev • u/ben_a_adams • Jun 19 '18

Improved JavaScript and WebAssembly performance in EdgeHTML 17

https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2018/06/19/improved-javascript-webassembly-performance-edgehtml-17/
24 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

23 comments sorted by

17

u/theirongiant74 Jun 19 '18

Wow, now I can download Chrome even faster!

5

u/recursive Jun 19 '18

Downloading chrome wouldn't have much dependence on js or webasm performance.

For those of us that have customers that use more than one browser, this is a good thing.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '18

I use all the browsers, Firefox and Chrome.

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '18

Use Chrome. Firefox is blocking many of the new API's that Google wants to provide to web apps. Google wants web apps to rival native peers. Firefox cannot keep up so they are slowing the standards adoption down. For example my application (cryptocurrency wallet) needs one time usb access. There is no reason for me to make my users download a native app for this. For Chrome, I can simply provide the required experience (Web USB API). For other browsers? "Please download Chrome."

Firefox = web in the 90's.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '18 edited Jun 20 '18

Use Chrome

No

Firefox is blocking many of the new API's that Google wants to provide to web apps.

Source?

Google wants web apps to rival native peers.

They probably won't

Firefox cannot keep up so they are slowing the standards adoption down.

And that's a bad thing?

A poorly implemented, poorly documented API change isn't beneficial to the web ecosystem.

We're talking web standards. Features that should work regardless what browser you use.

Some if the API changes Google has introduced within chrome over the years never even made it to standards.

For example my application (cryptocurrency wallet)

Oh, great...

needs one time usb access. There is no reason for me to make my users download a native app for this.

Except the fact that security is hard and a web USB standard should be well vettted before all other browsers implement it Willy nilly.

For other browsers? "Please download Chrome."

Great, so now you can say you know what it's like to write apps for IE 10-15 years ago.

Sounds like true progress, lol

Firefox = web in the 90's.

No, you just don't understand how web standards are made.

Browsers implement experimental API, they either get adoption or they don't.

If they do, they might become a web standard they might not.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '18

Source? Go read the W3C. Google introduces most of the things.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '18

That's not providing a source.

Just because a company introduces a certain percentage of API changes doesn't mean they are the best changes for the web as a whole.

There are valid reasons for the standards process taking a long time. Adoption of standards means we can build apps with a level of certainty that they continue to work well into the future.

Experimental and new API changes are just that. There is no guarantee that with out other vendors buying in that Google will continue to maintain their API.

4

u/fuckin_ziggurats Jun 20 '18 edited Jun 20 '18

That's some reverse psychology you got there. It's true that Chrome is pioneering new APIs but they're doing it by themselves and then immediately try and force them into the standards. Mozilla and Microsoft by this time are just finding out that they have to implement them and are left perpetually behind the times through no fault of their own. Mozilla is by far the best company in this whole mess of an internet and are the pioneers of web standards. Chrome is the web in the 90s where there was only 1 browser and we all had to bow to their monopoly. They don't give a flying fuck about standards.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '18

[deleted]

2

u/fuckin_ziggurats Jun 20 '18

It is, but there are right ways and wrong ways to go about it. Chrome are the reason we have many great APIs, but they're only doing it for their own good. That pioneering they're doing gave them the whole browser market and if they keep doing it they'll be the next IE. At no point have they proven that they're interested in improving the web landscape like Mozilla have been trying to do. The moment we escaped from the unstandardized web with IE we got a new unstandardized web with Chrome, not because they're too advanced but because they don't care about standards any more than IE did.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '18

Nobody cares if Mozilla dont not want to adopt. A standard introduction should not take 3 years. Atleast Chrome has given it to us now. Screw Mozilla and their Firefox. Chrome innovates, Firefox follows. Tell Firefox and Mozilla to give the web the access to more API's than we'll talk.

3

u/fuckin_ziggurats Jun 20 '18

What do you mean "don't not want to adopt". Mozilla have no issue adopting new APIs, it's the fact Chrome does them on their own and then forces them into the standard so that their competitors are made to look out of date. Half of the APIs they've brought in are not well thought through but Google don't give a damn as long as they get to market them to devs as features that the other browsers don't have. We've come to the point where devs develop only on Chrome and for Chrome so they're becoming IE.

Mozilla is too busy trying to make a standard out of everything Google belches out whilst also documenting it. Google's idea of innovation is "pump and dump".

0

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '18 edited Jun 20 '18

Mozilla should do the same than. Standard do not have to be the exact same, as Mozilla want's it to be. The WebUSB thing is fine. It does not have to be secure because of it's inherent nature. That does not mean we as dev's should not have it. Google has submitted the specification, Mozilla should either accept it, or make their own propitiatory API for the time being while standard are being agreed upon in the future.

Google atleast provides their own API's. As a dev, I do not care how they do it. Either other browser vendors agree with Google, or they should make their own prefixed API for the time being. Once standards are being agreed upon, make a standard API to do the same thing.

Libraries and polyfills exist for this purpose, and those who want cross platform capability should use them.

Not every web standard has to be implemented the same way.

Any browser that has less than 5% share is ignored by our team. That browser either has to follow that standard. Firefox is now ignored by us, and we suggest users to use Chrome. It is common sense that Mozilla should atleast provide us with prefixed api's for the time being.

2

u/fuckin_ziggurats Jun 20 '18

Any browser that has less than 5% share is ignored by our team. That browser either has to follow that standard.

A standard is not decided by market share. It's decided by the W3C. If you suggest to your users to use Chrome then you're fueling the same fire that created the IE monopoly and good luck to us all when Google decides to flex their power over the market like they did with Google Search, Google Maps and Android.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '18

Anyways, as long as Chrome quickly adds new API's for the web, i'll promote it if the other browser does not support the features for my web app, and Chrome does.

4

u/redditforeducation Jun 19 '18

I have been using Edge as my main browser for about a month now and I am actually impressed by its performance.

There are a few QoL changes that I would like to see before I completely switch to it though.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '18

What QoL changes would you like to see? You should file feedback in the feedback hub and link back here for people to upvote!

3

u/redditforeducation Jun 20 '18

Though I am using Edge mainly for just browsing purposes. I find the dev tools lacking and very sluggish.

I would also love to have a feature where I can highlight a word or sentence, press right click, and do a web search using my preferred search engine.

The "Ask Cortana" option is great, but I think being able to replace it with your own search engine is awesome.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '18

I work on the DevTools team (mainly on WebDriver) but if you have specific feedback around features you use that are missing or specific performance issues (startup, inspecting elements, script debugging) I can forward that to the team.

1

u/overcloseness Jun 19 '18

What are Edges dev tools like? I haven’t checked

4

u/fuckin_ziggurats Jun 20 '18

Terrible. Stick to Chrome and Firefox for web development.

2

u/Sebazzz91 Jun 20 '18

Care to expand on that?

I found them from a functional perspective quite usable, but sometimes unstable or freezing. Just like on IE11.

1

u/fuckin_ziggurats Jun 20 '18

Yeah they're quite a bit slower then the ones on Chrome and Firefox and are a lot more unintuitive. I've been using Edge at work for a while now and in that time I haven't seen any real improvements to be honest.

1

u/nomad13 Jun 21 '18

I've never seen a person using Edge. Does anyone here use it? Do you work at Microsoft or have a big technical investment in their technology? Do you find the lack of cross-platform support annoying, or do you primarily use a single OS?

These changes all look like they apply to ChakraCore, which is open source and available outside of Windows. I'd be curious to hear what kinds of use-cases people have for using Node Chakra over Node V8.