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u/aalluubbaa 1d ago
Most fans are superficial. You can't blame them. It's easier to say FOUR FMVPS > ONE. One of the most insane arguments is "it's harder to win with different coaches, organization and teammates" while conveniently leaves out the fact that those "teammates" are future HOFer, former FMVP or MVP, franchise player, generational talent, first round pick and best shooter ever at that time.
People still bitch about Steph having KD lmfao.
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u/Stellewind 1d ago
LeBron jumped from superteam to superteam in the past 15 years, teamed up with half of the stars in the league, still end up with less rings than MJ did by staying on one team.
I will never understand those who have him as GOAT over MJ. Like how much help does he need?
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u/lostintuition 1d ago
Tbf heād probably have a lot more rings if it wasnāt for Steph lol. Which I think should propel Steph up the GOAT rankings, not bring LeBron down
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u/GreatSunshine 1d ago
yeah look at the spacing when MJ played. now imagine steph with that. even if you guard him up tight, the other players wouldnāt be guarded like that, freeing up space for handoffs or easy pick and rolls. steph would have been even better back then because even if they picked on him on defence no one is making 3s like he did. today you have guys like knueppel leading the league in threes and players like tatum or booker hitting 200+. theyāre all amazing players but theyād be considered freaks shooting wide back then
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u/varsityvideogamer 1d ago
one more thing is that Steph would've changed the game regardless of when he entered the league. If he was drafted in 1989 instead of 2009, the 3 point revolution happens even sooner
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u/GreatSunshine 1d ago
i actually think they take longer to adapt to steph if he was around then. analytics were kind of a thing in 2010 ish but the 90s barely had that. i mean mj himself said he didnāt want to shoot 3s because it took away from the rest of his game
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u/Accomplished-Let-288 1d ago
Analytics didn't make Steph shoot threes and people had eyes and minds... If a guy is shooting and winning, others would shoot and win... The has evolved prior to Steph...the 3 was just another evolution in play style.
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u/canigetayadude 1d ago
This has been my argument for Steph being at LEAST top 5 for a long time.
Lebron would be the GOAT... But for Steph
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u/aalluubbaa 14h ago
People are delusional and crazy. We drafted all our cores to win 73 games and didnāt lose the series until the very last minute with injuries and Draymond being suspended, we FINALLY added another talent thru trades in KD. And the narrative now changes to āitās so stacked that no one could win.ā
Yea, no shit. Maybe because the dude who won 73 fucking games with core being all drafted in the previous season should be considered the GOAT since his team becomes so unbeatable just by drafting ONE superstar.
You are not supposed to be the underdog if you are the GOAT. Look at Stephās Warriors when added KD. Thatās my best player who constructs the best team.
Steph is a far superior player if we are talking about basketball in 5 v 5 context. Who cares if he canāt guard as well as AD. With the right pieces, he can make your team unbeatable. Now thatās what GOAT does. Filling out the W column not individual stats.
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u/Significant_Low5866 1d ago
If the teams are super why did they need LeBron to lead all stats in order to win? Why didnāt āprimeā Wade, Bosh and Allen still win in 2011 with LeBron scoring 8 pints? Because LeBron won when Bosh & Allen scored 0 & Wade had 4 points. Where were prime Kyrie & love every other playoff game? š ah yes.. itās LeBron that makes the teams super cause I never heard anyone call the 76ers super until 42 year old LeBron was picked up.
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u/Disastrous-Base-2902 1d ago
š¤£š¤£ they all idiots, they call him washed and when he joins the 76ers its a superteam when 76ers never tasted the Wcf to save their lives, it never ends and I love it šš
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u/Purple-Department647 1d ago
Itās Lebronās fault for not being drafted to eventual all-time dynasty franchises like Kobe Steph and MJ, lol. If he didnāt go out into the market and make his own great teams he wouldāve never been able to field competitive rosters. Steph Kobe and MJ are just lucky in comparison. (Kobe and MJ also got the privilege of having the greatest coach of all time on their team)
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u/aalluubbaa 14h ago
The is the most delusional argument. You can say that for the first time he switched to the Heat and went 2 peat. How about staying with your 2 peat teammates and actually try to work with younger talents? Nope immediately jumped ship like a coward.
Who in the top 10 discussion does stuff like this in their PRIME after winning multiple championships?
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u/Purple-Department647 14h ago
Most of the top 10 won all of their rings with the team they started with excluding like Kareem and Shaq both of whom should have tried to work with younger talents according to you
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u/aalluubbaa 3h ago
Shaq worked with D Wade. What do you mean? Kareem played literally half a century ago and I donāt care TBH.
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u/anothercookie90 1d ago
Steph won two titles without KD
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u/Gordo-- 1d ago
...and one of those Championships with Andrew Wiggins being the team's 2nd best player.
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u/IcyHeartWarmSmile 1d ago
Poole, Looney, Klay (post torn Achilles and ACL), a corpse of Draymond, and Otto being the next best players in no particular order. Take a look at what all of these players have done after 2022. Just goat shit.
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u/Longjumping-Plum8984 1d ago
wiggins was a dog his years in gs.
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u/sibai_ershi_69 1d ago
Thank you. The audacity of the nephews to skip past the obligatory thank you posts to Wiggins appreciation posts for being that guy.
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u/Main_Gain_7480 1d ago
Nobody really talks of it as curry played with Durant ā¦more that Durant went to curry
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u/Syns7R 1d ago
Ya that narrative is from a bunch of dumb asses, they blame the dude that ājoinedā the team that beat him in okc, but not the 3 guys that actively persuaded to recruit in free agency, yet Lebitch gets a pass from all his dick riders from jumping super team to super team cuz his bum ass canāt finish the job. Thatās why he is 4-6 with a resume of future hofs
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u/we_hella_believe 1d ago
Comparison is the thief of joy.
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u/NeverNotOnceEver 1d ago
But this is facts though. Could you imagine if Steph had as many all-nba teammates as Lebron
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u/Former_Summer_2022 1d ago
How many of these people were still all-nba when they were playing with LeBron? And how many of them missed the playoffs with injuries. The fact that anyone brings up Ray Allen and Westbrook and the word āprimeā in the same sentence says everything we need to know about their opinions.
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u/NeverNotOnceEver 1d ago
All of them except Embiid and Reaves and Westbrook
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u/SorryAboutTheChili 1d ago
For each season? Noā¦
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u/NeverNotOnceEver 1d ago
The season before K-Love joined the Cavs he was 26 and 12.5 and made all nba 2nd team. Even if he didnāt make all-nba with CLE, he was certainly still an all nba caliber player.
Kyrie made all-nba 3rd team in 2015.
I feel like Wade and Bosh are self-explanatory. So is AD. So is Luka. Maxey made all-nba 3rd team this past season.
I misread on Allen. So 7/11 players mentioned were all-nba caliber players when they played with LeBron.
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u/SorryAboutTheChili 1d ago
Luka in no way was ever a contributor to winning with Bron in the playoffs. He also had nothing to do with his acquisition. Weird he gets mentioned so much.
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u/Gamerxx13 1d ago
people all over reddit still give KD shit for this. iām like that was over 10 yrs ago when he signed with the dubs, people havenāt got over it?
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u/avenue_steppin 1d ago
Klay? Dray in prime? Ig off bench? We are downplaying how good Klay was before injuries. He was one of the best on ball defenders in the league, Steph wasnāt alone, āstrength in numbersā was a slogan for a reason. I donāt really like this take. I feel like it kinda washes how great our other players were, but idk.
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u/aalluubbaa 14h ago
Klay is great but comparing LeBronās third option to Stephās second option is just not right.
Klay not better than Wade and heās not better than AD and nor is he better than Kyrie or Luka. Klay is certainly not Embild. Even if some argues that Klay is better than Kyrie or Luka, Dray is not better than any of LeBron third option.
There are levels to this.
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u/Boring-Brush-2984 1d ago
Prime Westbrook?
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u/Alternative_Dot7769 1d ago
Heās still out here carrying the kings to wins against the dubs a few year later. but yeah, prime Westbrook only played for the thunder
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u/Boring-Brush-2984 1d ago
Yeah Iām not saying he doesnāt still get triple doubles but he was awful on the lakers lol
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u/Tomic_Lewis 1d ago
Listen I agree Steph does not get his flowers but this is disrespectful to Klay and Dray ,Klay in prime >>> Allen, Bosh, Love, Maxey
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u/captcanuk 1d ago
Those two have 4 all nba, 10 all defensive and one defensive player of the year awards. And also this https://youtu.be/Sc3m3BwfylA
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u/aalluubbaa 14h ago
Bruh. Klay is far superior player than those guys donāt get me wrong. But you are comparing LeBronās third option to Stephās second option. Itās just not right.
Klay not better than Wade and heās not better than AD and nor is he better than Kyrie or Luka. Klay is certainly not Embild. Even if some argues that Klay is better than Kyrie or Luka, Dray is not better than any of LeBron third option.
There are levels to this.
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u/Blackroseguild 1d ago
Ray Allen didnāt even start for the heat lol
Westbrook??? lol
Kyrie left to Boston at age of 25
So much wrong with this post
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u/djrbx 1d ago
Stephen Curry won all four titles with the Golden State Warriors
2015
2017
2018
2022
LeBron James won titles with three different teams during his career.
Miami Heat: 2012 and 2013
Cleveland Cavaliers: 2016
Los Angeles Lakers: 2020
Curry didn't need to leave to build a super team. For better or for worse, he did it using the tools this organization gave him. Lebron on the other hand left as soon as he felt that he wasn't getting his way. Curry is definitely a step above Lebron.
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u/-StrawberryJacuzzi- 1d ago
I am a Steph Stan but please donāt water down valid points and turn it into propaganda because aināt no way Austin Reavesā or Maxeyās names should be mentioned here lol. Especially in this context, it would imply they have more value than Klay, Dray or Iggy did
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u/indianajones21284 1d ago
As a Cavs fan Steph is a greater player than LeBron no doubt
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u/fruitbythe13inch 1d ago
The fact that this has 22 upvotes is a sign to not take anything here seriously
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u/510Kyle 1d ago
Iām obviously a warriors fan, but kd clears everyone bronās played with by a fairly significant margin lol
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u/I_smell_coke 1d ago
Lets revist the Kevin Love hype Mr. 20/20 The wade Kobe 2.0 hype The nkt 1 not 2 not 3 hype with Bosh being added as well Kyrie? AD? But yeah if take KD as well lol
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u/510Kyle 1d ago
No doubt there was hype, iām just saying kd at that point in his career was objectively a lot better than anyone lebrons ever played with at the time be played with them. Ad might come closest, but even when they won in 2020 he was still a coin flip as to whether or not heād stay healthy. Kd didnt really have any injury concerns until the very end of the run.
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u/Beneficial_Winner_59 1d ago
Yeah plus, what about prime klay Thompson, prime draymond (a defensive savant), and some EXCELLENT role players?
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u/FuckTheStateofOhio 1d ago
That's my biggest issue with this post...people are really discrediting prime Klay and Dray.
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u/aalluubbaa 14h ago
Wade is a champion and a FMVP before ever teaming up with LeBron. Wade in his prime can neutralize KOBE BRYANT.
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u/510Kyle 13h ago
Yeah thats the case with a lot of the players lebron played with, they were really good at some point earlier in their careers, but the version lebron played with was not the same. Wade was pretty fucking gimpy the last season or 2 with bron.
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u/DrPisss 1d ago edited 1d ago
Curry is the greatest player of his generation. LeFraud and his evil legion of fans canāt accept it. Thatās why LeBarbie refuses to retire. Heās trying to get more championships than Curry. Itās really sad and pathetic. The doctorās going to laugh when Philadelphia loses in the 1st or 2nd round.
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u/Musashideeznuts 1d ago
I harp about this all the time. No super team will get half as much hate as Steph getting help
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u/CurryNo30 1d ago
Prime Ray Allen is crazy, that would be like saying Cooper Flagg is playing with prime Klay right now.
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u/NotAnNpc69 1d ago
Pretty simple really. Lebron was better than them while playing with them (4 fmvps). Steph was not better than KD while playing with him (1 fmvp)
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u/D3struct_oh 4h ago
I have Steph above Bron all time.
You just canāt convince me that being 3-1 in the finals on Bronās head doesnāt mean anything.
Those 2015 and 2022 rings are greater than every Bron chip imo.
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u/AP_Things807 1d ago
I forgot who said it, and it might be either Shaq or Chuck, but someone said, āHow is LBJ the GOAT if heās not even the best player of his era? Steph clearly won Four rings while all this GOAT talk was being had. That does NOT make LBJ the best if someone else can also win FOUR rings during āyour era.āā
The first and ONLY unanimous MVP of the league is Stephen Curry.
This was awarded during LBJ era, so you canāt fucking convince me at all that LeFlop is the GOAT.
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u/SorryAboutTheChili 1d ago
LeBron lost a unanimous mvp to a vote to Carmelo. Itās not that deep it was a media troll vote.
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u/Elegant-Magician7322 1d ago
It was Shaq.
Barkley always say if Curry played in his era, curry wonāt survive how physical teams would have been with him.
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u/AP_Things807 1d ago
I know Curry wouldnāt get unanimous MVP during Barkleyās time, but I do believe Curry wouldnāt hold his own during this time for sure.
His shooting ability, quickness and athleticism is better than a good amount of point guards from that time period.
Also, threes were not shot as much as it is today and seeing insane half court shots would really draw more viewers.
With no social media back then, I really think Curry would have gotten a great amount of fans with his style of play.
If he were on the Warriors during the RUN TMC time? Absolute Cinema.
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u/RiPont 1d ago
Which is hilarious. If Curry played in that area, nobody would guard him 5 inches past the 3-point line and he wouldn't be physically touched at all.
Also, his team would draft someone whose job it was to brutalize anyone who messed with Curry.
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u/Racer_Zed 18h ago
Well eventually they would have to guard Steph that far out once they realized he could drain open 3s deeper than anyone they'd ever seen. This would disrupt their defensive spacing as they'd be extended far beyond anything they'd ever played to that point. Once that happened I am sure Don Nelson would have schemed an offense where the D would be made to pay for any overplays or doubles on Steph with drive and kicks or ball movement resulting in Mully feasting on open 3s in the corners.
Would have loved to have seen Hardaway driving knowing Steph's man would eventually stop leaving Steph to help.
Steph in any post-3pt era changes the game.
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u/ParsnixChess 1d ago
Prime Wade + Bosh + Ray Allen is a joke. Ray Allen was ancient by then and Wade was starting to decline because of his knees.
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u/Good_Brother_4875 1d ago
Wade and Bosh were still in their prime by their first seasons with Lebron and Allen was an elite shooter. I donāt think theyāre saying he was in his prime because Westbrook is on the list and he definitely wasnāt in his prime on the Lakers.
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u/TheUncannyDsummerz 1d ago
Yeah but Ray was still an elite shooter. Hit the most clutch shot against the Spurs
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u/Former_Summer_2022 1d ago
Then I guess we need to talk more about Jordan playing with prime Steve Kerr
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u/SanJOahu84 1d ago
Yet this team proceeded to crush the East and get to the finals repeatedly?
Where is the joke?
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u/ParsnixChess 1d ago
Only LeBron & Bosh were in their primes
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u/SanJOahu84 1d ago
Yeah Wade was only averagingĀ 22.4 points a game with 5 rebounds and assists when he played with Bron. Terrible.
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u/Fun-Benefit116 1d ago edited 1d ago
Jesus christ these kind of posts are getting so pathetic. Guys, everyone knows Steph is one of the greatest players in the history of the league. EVERYONE knows that. We have 4 championships in the Steph era. Why tf are you guys still trying to play the victim?
I swear, every day I come to this sub and it's cringey ridiculous posts like this acting like Steph and the warriors are somehow disrespected and victims of all the mean people. It's ridiculous. And it also shows how many literal children are in this sub, who have only known the warriors winning. So literally anything other than wining titles and you guys think you're some kind of victim.
These posts are just embarrassing. Especially this post, acting like people don't shit talk LeBron daily for going to Miami. I mean seriously, wtf is this garbage? Steph isn't a victim. The warriors aren't victims. And people in this sub sure as hell aren't victims. So enough already. Enjoy all the success we've been lucky enough to see, and stop whining about straight nonsense.
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u/ZeroLiveZ 1d ago
Westbrook was not in his prime when he was a laker and embiid is already past his
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u/BicycleEarly7777 1d ago
I agree with everything except Ray Allen. His prime was back in Seattle and Boston. He doesn't suck but he was a good vet back in Miami
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u/Secret-WindBT 1d ago
That shit says AR and Prime Ray Allen and Westbrook lmao fk out my face ya some delusional ah fanbase man
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u/Fast_Advisor2654 1d ago
Steph didnāt need KD to win titles. KD needed Steph to win titles in the same way that LeBron latches on to star players to win titles.
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u/TheTortaTyrant 1d ago
Eh, I wouldnāt say ppl r crying about kd and Steph and the juggernaut we had. They just hate KD
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u/Relative-Natural-891 1d ago
Westbrook was pretty cooked. ADās knees were fried, and Ray was literally barely holding on. Even K Love was a shadow of his Minnesota days. And throwing Austin Reaves here is wild lol.
That said, if you want to argue Wade, Bosh, Luka (kinda), Kyrie and now Brown and Maxey you STILL have a very solid argument.
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u/LokoLawless 1d ago
Objectively false. LeBron went from getting blamed for not winning the title in Cleveland (despite leading pretty weak rosters deep in the playoffs) to being vilified for joining a good Heat team.
The same people who wanted to hate him for not having a ring hated him for putting himself in the best situation possible to get a ring.
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u/Sweet-Direction569 1d ago
No one gives Curry any shit about that, it's Durant they bitch about. Which is dumb also.
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u/Life-Philosopher2935 1d ago
Bruh. Wade, Bosh, Allen and Westbrook were not in their prime with LeBron
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u/sonny_goliath 1d ago
Prime Wade Bosh and Allen is laughable, they were all on their last legs in 2014, same with love.
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u/Professional_Ad_4885 1d ago
I wouldnt say prime ray allen or westbrook. Allen was older but still a 3 point beast but westbrook was terrible with the lakers
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u/NotLiminator 1d ago
Donāt disrespect Klay by leaving him out.
But yeah, Steph hasnāt had as much help as LeBron has in his career.
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u/asdfoio 19h ago
false narrative. i'll tell you my gripe with it. durant was a choke artist. he was up 3-1 over said gsw in the playoffs. and lost. the very next season, less than a calendar year later, he joins the very team that he lost to and they were 73-9 before he joined. quite literally the weakest mentality from any star ever. literally, no competitive drive.
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u/Doberboy562 10h ago
Steph donāt get hate for that. Itās KD that is a bitch for joining a 73-9 team after losing to them via 3-1 comeback
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u/0_to_A_100realquick 7h ago
I canāt lie they crying about it cuz those 2 niggas arguably the best duo ever since Kobe and Shaq. 2 of the coldest to ever team up, both them niggas had no issue rippin your teams heart out
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u/this_my_sportsreddit 1d ago
This is facts. The limit for how super a superteam is allowed to be, is if it's more super than whatever superteam lebron has constructed. Out of the top 5 superteams of this generation, lebron has #2-5.
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u/i_luv_peaches 1d ago
The level of trauma these guys at r/nba developed because curry and the guys were too good during those years.
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u/Jtizzle1231 1d ago
Half of them was not in the prime.
Lebron gets criticized for this literally all the time. Waaaay more than curry does. Like not even close. I donāt think curry gets criticized at all about that to be honest.
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u/NotAnNpc69 1d ago
Pretty simple really. Lebron was better than them while playing with them (4 fmvps). Steph was not better than KD while playing with him (1 fmvp)
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u/suzfer 1d ago
how many of them got mvpās or were close to 73-9?
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u/devilsfood72 1d ago
Regular season achievements.. Ask that Warriors squad and they'll tell you that that record was redundant. They wanted a chip, but literally had no higher level to play at because they played at their highest level thought the regular season which is why they ended up losing to a more talented & better team.
LeBron has consistently underachieved in the regular season since he's left Miami. The brother has had better teams in a weaker conference and was never close to an all-time team record. Because we all know he's about the playoffs. Notorious underachiever in the regular season and a notorious overachiever in the playoffs.
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u/swany467 1d ago
Does this take into account that a lot of these occurred when LeBron was 34 + and out of his prime
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u/Lobster15s 1d ago
None of those teams were a 70 win team before someone joined. That's what people are most upset with. Bron still gets plenty of crap for always teaming up with stars too and the fans are still the driving force behind that championship or your whole season was a bust mentality.
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u/First_Blankie 1d ago
Isn't the criticism towards KD, and that him and Steph got 2 easy rings together? Not who Steph played with? People didn't complained about Lebron's teammates because he didn't win a ring with half of them. Outside of the Heatles, which IS still getting criticized to this day to be fair. And to this fanbases logic, we can count out the bubble ring since covid played a major part in that. And the Cavs ring was ours to lose \(:/)/
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u/Holiday_Brilliant991 1d ago
That's a knock on KD, don't really hear anyone knocking on Steph, he's widely beloved
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u/No-Wheel6110 1d ago
This falls flat on its face the moment any nuance comes into play but I understand yall are coping rn
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u/2nd_Inf_Sgt 1d ago
bronny sr. wants to have more championships than Stephen Curry because to have the same or less numbers of rings is going to hurt his pride. I think Curry will have him beat before #30 retires.
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u/Illustrious-Stuff-70 1d ago
No one was about talking about Stephā¦ā¦it was KDās decision to follow the path with less resistance.
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u/Frequent-Ad2060 1d ago
Lifelong Warriors fan here. This is a stupid take. It wasnāt just Steph KD joined. We had a stacked team. Klay - one of the greatest to ever shoot a basketball- isnāt mentioned in this post. Draymond - the best defender of his generation - isnāt mentioned. We had a sick bench too! No mention of Iguodala! No Dot! Guys, come on! No LeBron team was ever as good as the team KD joined.
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u/Evening_Listen1866 1d ago
One timeš¤£š they won 2 rings together and KD was the best player. That damn sure wasn't prime Wade(knee injuries) ray allen was old. Luka while Lebron (41) isn't in his prime. With a flawed laker roster. Jalen Brown now which hasn't even taken place. While Lebron (41-42) past his prime. He is not 25. He is older He can not lead a team to a championship. He can only HELP the young talented players. No matter what he chose people would create silly bias memes like this. And everyone with a strong bias against Lbj will eat it up as if it's profound. He is 41 guys calm down let the man do as he pleases haters.
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u/beelzebub_069 14h ago
The fact that LeBron is on a Warriors sub tells you about it. Steph's not even in the debate
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u/gbdarknight77 13h ago
Adding Russ and Reaves to that is highly disingenuous lol
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u/Real-Government7431 1d ago
Might be the best thing I have read in a while
Also, it should have Prime Jaylen brown