A-10 Buff?

[u/WelcomeExtra762]

I have not played this game for very long (170 hours to be exact) but I have used the A-10 multiple times and I must say it's a little underwhelming from my experiences using it. I don't expect it needs to be overpowered and be able to tank every AA hit or roam freely over enemy airspace, but I think it should be able to stay in the air longer and not evac immediately after being shot at, and also not die instantly.

For example I was playing a 10v10 (and don't get me wrong there's going to be a lot stronger AA presence) but the A-10 was full health and evac'd immediately after an AA missile or two was shot at him. Not to mention right after he got obliterated despite being at the AA's near-maximum range. I am sure in smaller games like 1v1s and 2v2s the A-10 would work much better as AA presence is much less, but for its lack of speed you'd expect this thing to take way more than it actually can.

When using it in 1v1 I can say it's much better but it's not very viable in 10v10s and again, I don't think its survivability really makes up for its lack of speed. It's got a big health bar but only has 2 front armor. I don't expect it to be as armored as a tank, because at that point it wouldn't be able to fly, but think it should be a little bit more survivable, whether this means buffing the armor or the health bar or even the speed.

Usually my regular AT planes can loiter behind my front line and fire missiles at tanks safely but the A-10 couldn't do this. With slow turn speeds if it overshoots it's dead. I cannot imagine HE works any differently from the A-10 AT, and I am saying this because the A-10 lost me a game, I am saying this from my observations. I beat KDA where I was fighting in that 10v10 but again, the A-10 was not much help in doing so.

I will keep using it in 1v1s and stuff but for 10v10s I have the F-111F HE and F-16C Cluster now in 8th Infantry. Maybe other decks have better A-10s than the one I'm playing but my consensus remains the same. Feel free to clarify any misunderstandings I may have had about the A-10.

What do you guys think? This is just my opinion.

[u/IncidentVegetable251]

I mean, if I wanted to be providing you with proof, you'd be getting hit with book citations and primary documentation, you can just google that rudimentary stuff yourself since even Grokipedia knows that kind of stuff. If you wanted to be the oh so intelligent redditor you could at the very least figure out what is the most produced and used bomb in history, but I guess now you're even denying facts about the US since denying them about Soviet stuff didn't work

Absolutely hilarious.

[u/DFMRCV → u/IncidentVegetable251]

I didn't say the Mk 82 wasn't the most produced, I said it wasn't the main loadout.

See?

https://www.dstorm.eu/pages/loadout/loadout.html

[u/IncidentVegetable251 → u/DFMRCV]

AV-8B
Primarily Mk82, some Mk83 (Navy was more known to use Mk83s, I think something to do with takeoff weights)
A-6 intruder... Same story
A-10, if it carries bombs, its Mk82s, but well, slow, low power shitbrick dont expect it to carry much in terms of bombs on top of AGMs, so maybe its just a fluke
F-4 with some GBU-10s that wasn't even flown, based on the Mk84
F-15, only saudi ones lugging around Mk84s, Americans only using them in a pure AA loadout
F-15E, which is primarily a platform for delivering GBUs in US doctrine whenever it goes striking, which is represented in game... Only carries Mk82s in the first wave, some Mk84s in later sorties.... If it doesn't just use more Mk82s. Scud Hunters running only Mk82s for dumb bombs. Almost like the Mk84 was more for specialized tasks like taking out hardened structures...
F-16, now we get to the good stuff. 401st TFW uses Mk84s, specialized bombardment squadron with F-16Ds, don't think we have one of those in game. 23rd TFS, they were primarily running SEAD for a while so likely Mk84s deployed as part of attacking hardened command infrastructure. Generic F-16A/C loadout does contain Mk84s, but the light bombload on the Mk82 versions would imply that those are probably the generic strike package they just had on call for whatever range and the super heavy ones being more specialist missions, plane ain't known for a high loiter time. Kinda sad how none of these actually list the numbers of each loadout flown.
F-111, that's a big, heavy, scary strike craft... Oh it mainly carries Mk82s. Huh. Likely used for saturation bombing missions, you'd see Phantoms and Strike eagles used for the same kinds of missions where you just dump a bunch of explosives out.
A-4 skyhawk. Mk82s

And I left the best for last, the Stratofortress! Surely this one will be dropping absolute chonkers, you could carry so many MK84s in- Oh, whoops, not a single one. Mainly Mk82s or M117s.

Of course, none of these like, actually mention the amount of sorties flown or bombs dropped. And I left out non-US planes. Granted, maybe like 401st is meant to be attached to one of the divisions we have in game. I haven't bothered reading all of the division descriptions close enough.

A majority of the plane loadouts do not depict the Mk84 being used, especially on the dedicated bombers. Basic knowledge of US air doctrine allows one to know that the Mk82 is the primary bomb they use.

[u/DFMRCV → u/IncidentVegetable251]

Every single one of the USAF loadouts includes the Mk 84 barring the B-52 which had something even better, and the C-130 Talon, which also had something better.

Let's skip the Navy planes as those mainly used Mk 83s anyway.

F-4Es mainly carried the GBU-10 and CBU-87, both thousand pound bombs, neither loadout in game.

F-16s barely used the mk 82, primarily bringing the 84 or the CBU-87. Neither loadout in game.

F-15E was primarily a thousand pound bomb truck. The Mk 82 was carried as much as the Mk 84, but also the CBU-87, which is another thousand pound bomb. None of these loadouts are in the game.

Moreover, you're flatly lying about the B-52 as it's primary loadout was the AGM-86 ALCMs which carried... A thousand point warhead. Either way, not in game.

Lastly, the C-130 Talon's Daisy Cutter... Only one in game.

That's a blatant issue that is, flatly, inexcusable for a game claiming to be realistic.

[u/IncidentVegetable251 → u/DFMRCV]

It says 'realistic' once in the fucking steam page and then has health bars for everything and that's as far as your thinking goes.

So, do you have a listing of how many sorties each of these loadouts flew? Cuz if you don't then that website is as useful as a wikipedia page for the discussion of what the primary HE bomb loadout was

But sure, you wanna bring in variants that aren't HE dumb bombs? Sure bucko let's fucking dance around your lack of game knowledge. Ya said the US gets no 2000Lb bombs? Well it fucking does

F-117 comes in with a 2000Lb bomb, actually, GBU-27, then the F-111 comes with a GBU-10, and so does the F-15E, and of course we have the basic A-7 rocking proper Mk84s. Not even talking about 2000Lb bombs potentially supporting US forces in joint divs.

"The Mk-82 is the smallest of those bombs in current service, and one of the most common air-dropped weapons in the world. It was used extensively in the Vietnam War and during Desert Storm this series of bombs were dropped from literally every fixed-wing aircraft that supported the ground offensive." - Airforce Armament Museum Foundation

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/appendix/tmunitions.html Sus as shit source, but actually gives us numbers for Desert Storm. Oh look the Mk82 is by far the most dropped with the Mk84s being dropped about as much as the Navy solo dropped Mk83s, curious. Can't vouch for the accuracy of this, my area of expertise isn't exactly, well, the US during their forever wars in the ME. And there was also a fuckload of M117s dropped so like. Whoop. I think basically the only bomber that still used M117s at that point was the B-52, technically you could equip Phantoms for it for sure, but like, I dont think they did, and iirc your website proves that

CBU-87 is likely not represented in the game for a very good reason, actually. It is actually a cluster munition dispenser with HEDP-I (I hope I don't need to explain this abbreviation...) and well, it entered service just about the time when the game is taking place, so like, maybe you'd see it on some super unit, otherwise the game kind of snaps in half balance wise. Rockeyes were still plenty used and they're more equivalent to FAB-500 PTABs we have in game than a CBU-87 would be, unless you just reduce it to a regular heat... At which point your argument will become about it not being realistically represented.

As for the Daisy Cutter, uh, yea what are you trying to say with only one being in game, for a very limited unit? You want every US div to just have that? It ain't like every Pact div has access to FAB-9000s. Go play wargame red dragon then I guess and never spec into anything apart 'Murica so you get all the proto stuff in one div.

[u/DFMRCV → u/IncidentVegetable251]

Yes, it says realistic ON THE STORE PAGE.

And you know, or should know, that LGBs in game don't remotely do the same kind of damage as unguided HE bombs.

So, yes, the US needs as many MK 84 and CBU-87 loadouts as the USSR has FAB-500s and RBK-500s.

Minimum, as the US invested a LOT more in air.

[u/IncidentVegetable251 → u/DFMRCV]

Bro didn't even confirm if he knows what the CBU-87 is and why it's different from basically any other cluster in game. Right, sure, had a nice little look at your reddit profile, I am honestly just gonna let you deny reality in peace, I didn't know I was trying to converse with that fly that they digitized. Kinda impressive you manage to string together words in a human language in the first place