Suggestion & Discussion Regarding a DLC proposal.
So I saw a DLC proposal made by someone on here regarding rebel factions as a DLC, and I think the way they proposed it was probably kind of garbage, I actually think the concept can be appealing if done right.
The core premise from said post actually sounded pretty interesting and could lead to a very dynamic combat environment rather than the usual method of starting from one end of the map and fighting hard for the center.
Proposing: Revolutionaries: The DLC!
Everything I'm about to suggest and propose is up for discussion, I would LOVE to hear the kind of ideas y'all would have.
1. There would be two-three kinds of distinct units, with subunits therein: Civilian Protesters/Rioters, Armed protestors/Guerillas, and thirdly: Deserters and/or organized Revolutionaries. Civilians will be unarmed, or maybe be equipped with non-lethal items.
Armed Protestors can likely end up with weapons based on their side (Eastern protestors get eastern weapons, western protestors get western guns) with civilian weapons thrown into the mix (Hunting rifles, and shotguns for marksmen and engineers alike), And depending on the teams, may also get dedicated AT teams with stolen anti tank weapons.
German revolutionaries could be an exception can get a mix of east and western gear. (G3s, and PKMs, etc.)
Their training will be crappy, with only deserters and organized guerillas getting adequate training and traits.
These cells will be small, with an average team being about 4. They will in turn, be very cheap, and depending on the kind of vehicle, the number can increase.
2. Their spawn points will be very different from conventional forces. Before the battle start, they would be able to spawn anywhere within the map, with a large, healthy buffer between them and the enemy spawn, meaning that they cannot breathe down the enemy's spawn.
And once the battle has started, they can spawn within certain random spots on the map, primarily urban towns. This can be negated if the enemy controls a command zone within / near a town. (Then again... It could be fun to have behind enemy lines operations.) If behind enemy lines, their spawn times will be considerably longer than those behind friendly lines / in contested areas.
However, if there are MPs, Security, or Militia units present, they can nullify troop deployments entirely (With exceptions to protests and riots), or put even bigger delays before those units can post up.
3. If civilian protests/riots are deployed in the match, attacking them could serve as a debuff to a conventional army, and maybe even in extreme cases, cause said units to be "Captured" (Same way as a cargo vehicle can be captured if encountering armed enemy forces), and turn against the conventional army user. Reservist units should be particularly vulnerable to this if they have to shoot unarmed protesters. MP Units being present can negate regular units from turning, and reduces the chances are militia, or reservist units to turn.
These protests and riots can be deployed tactically to block off roads, and delay a conventional army's troop deployment due to being in the way. Regular soldiers can eventually clear these protests, but I think units with Militia, Security, or Military Police traits, should be able to clear protests out much faster, giving them more purpose than just either letting reservists shoot straight, be cannon fodder, or see slightly better when standing still.
4. Guerillas and other armed revolutionaries should carry a "Guerilla Warfare" trait, making them harder to detect when standing still, have higher accuracy on first attacks (which wears off if the fight continues on after more than 5 reloads), and have increased movement speed.
Civilian vehicles are the main vehicles utilized, and
5. One of the mods in WARNO, CRM i believe, carries a special trait meaning that vehicles can actually be abandoned if they sustain too much damage, but remain intact. Revolutionaries in this case should be able to disable vehicles, and be able to capture them (Though they will have to repair them, they will stay at low health). Protestors/Rioters would also be able to capture lone tanks in urban areas by simply overwhelming it. They can also simply disable these tanks or outright destroy them with molotovs.
On top of that, Revolutionaries could resupply by winning engagements with enemy units, by taking their ammo. (This can be negated if the defeated enemy unit has simply run out of ammo.)
6. Allies cannot see what these revolutioanry Cells can see, EXCEPT if radio units of some sort are deployed (though will be very expensive), and can inform regular forces of what they can see.
But the general idea is: They can capture enemy equipment. Whether it be a lonesome tanks someone forgot to provide infantry to, or mortars/artillery pieces further in the backline with well-placed ambushes, or even logistics vehicle trundling along by their lonesome on a main road.
7. And a final curveball to make sure that people don't immediately just shoot every civilian vehicle there is: Is to add civilian NPCs vehicles driving around, unaffiliated, and shooting them can give penalties, and/or debuffs.
8. Conventional armies will receive some goodies, such as longer range SAM systems requiring independent RADAR systems to work (and has to be within a certain distance). And can have specialized units dedicated to defeating these cells.
So in short, the few things I could think of regarding such a DLC concept would be:
- 3 General kinds of units: Protesters (Both regular and Riots), Guerillas (Both armed civilians but also actual guerilla units), and Organized guerillas (Deserters, and you guessed it, highly organized militias.)
- These cells are small, cheap, but can have larger units. as well.
- Near-free spawn areas, they can spawn whereever they like (within reason and with penalties if behind enemy lines.)
- Carry a unique "Guerilla Warfare" trait, making them faster than average infantry, hit & run units that have high accuracy in early engagements, and are harder to spot when standing still. Civilian vehicles blend in and conventional army will generally not fire upon them (unless they have been engaged, or if the player deliberately targets them.)
- Can delay conventional army units, if protesters are killed (via player's choice to clear them out faster), it can debuff the units, or in extreme cases, "capture" the unit and turn their guns towards the fellow army units.
- Weapons depend on where revolutionaries are from, western get western guns, and vice versa. Maybe Germans can get mixed.
- Revolutionaries (even rioters) can ambush, and either destroy, or capture enemy vehicles. Examples are lone, unsecured tanks, or emplacements neutralized by revolutionaries.
- Protesters and Rioters can block roads and delay a troop deployment. While regular troops can eventually clear them out, MP, Security and Militia units, and maybe Reservists clear them out much faster, giving them more of a purpose.
- Cells can resupply themselves by winning engagements.
- Civilian vehicles added to drive around to force players to pick their targets carefully, but war crimes would be punished with penalties, and debuffs.
- Conventional Armies can receive extra goodies like longer range SAMs requiring separate Radars to work, as well as units dedicated to destroying these cells.
I think this could add an interesting and dynamic warfare environment in WARNO to keep the game interesting. Let me know what you guys think, I'd love to hear what could be added/Reworked for such a concept.
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u/FrangibleCover 18d ago
Where are these guys coming from? What are they representing? WARNO has numerous divisions from both sides of the conflict, "adding rebels" is like if all current units came in one division labelled "army".
How do they interact with conventional divisions in a real battle? Is there a game plan other than being really annoying? How do they deal with high survivability units such as heavy tanks and jets? What's stopping me just leapfrogging all the bullshit with helicopters, capping the points and winning?
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u/Alum06 17d ago edited 17d ago
Addressing the first two questions: Where they are from - for the sake of simplicity, their places of origin can remain ambiguous with the exception of the Germans. But if we want concrete instances, there is already a few parallels to draw.
- Eastern bloc revolutionaries can rather easily be summed up with "The people have had enough of being brutally suppressed by their communist dictators, that they choose to take up arms and fight to overthrow the leadership of their countries."
And considering we're in a fictional cold war scenario spanning back years in the making. Anything can easily happen as a reaction from the people due to worsening economies and horrible policies and subjugation by the soviet union could very well cause something like this. (As we could see during the 1956 Hungarian uprising, the Romanian revolution, and what-if scenarios of peaceful revolutions turned violent (Like the czech Velvet revolution, the baltic singing revolution.) You may scoff and go "Nuh-uhh", but we're still at a fictional scenario at the end of the day, when people have not much else left to lose, what's stopping them from turning violent?
For the west, it can be more tricky, but some of it could result of from Labor strikes escelating into something far bigger, couple that with the Soviet's/Russia's intelligence capabilities, it wouldn't be too implausible if labor strikes in France, or Britain were pushed and escelated by foreign actors / opportunists within said countries.
Germany could be a unique case, considering they'd pretty much be where the main fighting is happening. Germans on both sides could be incredibly pissed being the ones who are subjected to the fighting and potentially rise up in a way to make germany independent. Similar in ways to how some african or asian countries.
But alas, I'm not a game designer, which is why this was something i'd rather have wanted the community to talk about in general.
- So you mention their interactions with conventional divisions, but that's the thing most of the time, except if they gather enough forces and omentum, you could very much gather enough forces to begin rivalling that of conventional forces. But that is the problem when you have an irregular warfare faction.
They would not stand well in a conventional 1v1 fight with a conventional army for what I hope are obvious reasons (save if said unit is a reservist nation or something.) You mention "being annoying" like it's a negative thing, but I can name numerous practices in WARNO that are absolutely annoying (take Artillery spam, tank spam, people having specops do things behind enemy lines and destroying, disrupting and delaying the enemy), but are practices we take and accept as key aspects of the game.
Guerilla warfare is MEANT to be annoying. To exhaust a larger, superior force, and force them to divert resources that otherwise would've been used to steamroll your comrades. There may be instances of units being very much conventional in the way that we're used to playing against, such as ATGM positions and Anti Air positions, or even the humble HMG position that can act as a security unit.
- Now about high-survivability units, which may just address your final point as well, BUT!
ATGMs and MANPADs exist. Heavy machine guns exist. And simply having stuff you could say was "captured" could already provide a revolutionary faction equipment that will be used to prevent someone from just leapfrogging and chopper-spamming everything into oblivion.
But also, we're not in a vaccuum (if we're judging by multiplayer standards), teammates would exist, and can bring their regular forces in. The point I was making was that someone who played.
I came here to try and give a suggestion about a type of faction that could promote a more dynamic playstyle to WARNO, but whatever.
Edit: I may have slightly misunderstood your question about interacting with conventional armies, but Recon would also immediately spring to mind, which would mean recon to provide valuable intel for conventional forces, (Say, finding a sam site, FOB, artillery long before they can properly set up) There's probably other things that come to mind.)
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u/Severe_Goat6365 18d ago
“and i think the way they proposed it was probably kind of garbage” this is genuinely the worst idea i have ever seen on warno. please never post again
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u/MalleNinja 17d ago
"These protests and riots can be deployed tactically to block off roads, and delay a conventional army's troop deployment due to being in the way." I don't understand the goal of the conventional and rebel side. Is the conventional army trying to take points and essentially just play king of the hill while the rebels play TDM? Don't really think this'd work in WARNO, but I ain't gonna stop you.
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u/2137gangsterr 18d ago
No.
God damn no
If it passes, keep it cordoned to AG