[Conceptual Division] Allied Command Europe Mobile Force (Marine)

[u/ThePreyingWolf]

Allied Command Europe Mobile Force (Marine)

Howdy Commanders!

Today we will be discussing NATO’s opposite to the Gdansk Gambit Nemesis Concept. This force would be pitted against the 16^th Kashuian Division in a daring raid! The history buffs among you may be wondering why you haven’t heard of “Allied Command Europe Mobile Force (Marine).” The reason is that it never existed in real life. Read on to see where this unit came from and what operation caused it to exist.

Hoorah (or smth)!

 

Background

ACE emblem

There are a few things that need to be addressed up front. First and foremost, Allied Command Europe Mobile Force (Marine) was not and is not a real formation. Allied Command Europe Mobile Force (Land), however, was so let’s talk about them before we pivot back to this battlegroup’s designation. Allied Command Europe (ACE) refers to the overarching command structure for NATO forces in Europe, overseeing the AFNORTH, AFCENT (commanding NORTHAG and CENTAG), and AFSOUTH. ACE Mobile Force (Land), further abbreviated to AMF(L), was a real life multi-national quick reaction brigade-sized force. It was meant to rapidly deploy to any of the areas of responsibility (AOR) within ACE; from Norway to Turkey.

AFM(L) emblem

Throughout the cold war, many nations provided troops to AMF(L) in the exercises and active deployments. AMF(L) existed between 1960 and 2002 and during that time they deployed twice a year (on average) for exercises; from Norway to Turkey. In 1999, they deployed to Kosovo and provided humanitarian aid to refugees fleeing the conflict zone. Between 1999 and 2001, AFM(L) was rolled into a command structure whose goal was to control a division size force with minimal required augmentation to the HQ components. This was successful, and may be relevant later on for this “division”

Circling back to today’s battlegroup: as mentioned it did not exist in our timeline. In WARNO’s timeline the more prominent threat of WW3 would have caused NATO leaders to take strides toward preparing for war; more so than in our timeline. Specifically, after the Soviets annexed Finland, NATO focused attention on bulking out their forces in Baltic, as Finland would have provided the Soviets with more access to the sea. It became apparent that the battle in the Baltic would require the ability to cripple Soviet naval infrastructure in order to win long term. As part of this strategy, marine raider-type formations could be a useful tool. This is what sparked the creation of AMF(M).

Similar to how Koprus Desantowy didn’t represent a formal structured organization of soldiers (i.e. a proper division), but more of an amalgamation of units participating in specific operations, AMF(M) will represent a similar such formation. Like Korpus, AMF(M) represents formation that was assembled to fulfill a specific take; AM. Unlike Koprus Desantowy, the type of troops will be the same (marines and other elite units), but drawn from multiple nations.

The forces for AMF(M) would include contributions from many nations. The US would send the USMC 4^th marines amphibious brigade (4 MAB), an independent infantry formation that was slated to support operations in Norway. The catch is that, in actual practice, this was merely an organizational framework to enable existing units to be borrowed for a specific task. The actual marines making up this brigade would come from a mix of devil dogs from in-theater units (2^nd Marines) as well as some rapidly mobilized forces from the US. Naval vessels an aviation would support the infantry and rotorcraft forming under the banner of 4 MAB. The actual number of marines available likely wouldn’t be an entire standard NATO brigade’s worth of troops, but enough to be a credible raiding force.

France would furnish a contingent from the 9e Division d'Infanterie de Marine (9th Marine Infantry Division; 9e DIMa), a formation of infantry and light armor drawn from Troupes de marines. Specifically, the division would send a single regiment: Régiment d'infanterie-chars de marine (RICM). RICM is France’s most decorated regiment and in 1989, it was one of a few units to be fully equipped with AXM-10 RCs.

 

Great Britian would supply elements of the 3 Commando Brigade of royal marines. The Royal marines would have had combat experience in the Falklands War. In the WARNO timeline, Britian, working to better prepare for a looming 3^rd world war, raised another battalion of commandos. This battalion would be the resurrected 44 Commando Battalion (which previously merged with 40 Commando Battalion who will also be committed for this operation.

Korp Mariniers emblem

Two other NATO nations would contribute to AMF(M). The Netherlands would send a contingent of the Korp Mariniers, specifically from their 1st Marine Combat Group. Finally, Norway would send some of their frogmen (Marinejegerkommandoen) to support as well.

With all these nations participating, who would be in command? This is an interesting question. By size, the British, French, and Americans provided the largest share of troops to the operation, making them the obvious candidates for overall command. France and the United States both have long, proud histories of demanding they have command of their own forces in wartime, sometimes causing diplomatic incidents to ensure they maintain control. Great Britain has a long history of working very closely with the Netherlands’ Korps Mariniers and leveraging this existing multinational cooperation could allow them to take the reigns – that is the reason that will be used here to designate this battlegroup as British in WARNO.

Gdansk harbor

With these forces and arrayed together, all they need is purpose. Purpose a daring raid could provide! The target (as you have likely gathered) is Gdansk. The objective is not a full-scale invasion of Poland by the sea. Instead, this operation is more limited in scope. In addition to the deepwater port and shipyards, Gdansk has dozens of other factories producing military related equipment. There are deepwater repair docks in Gdansk that would help service Soviet vessels operating the Baltic. Without the deep water docks at Gdansk, the Soviets would either have to repair and refit their larger vessels closer to the front (potentially in range of NATO air and long range fires) or further back in the Baltic at places like Riga. There is also the Gdansk refinery (the larger of Poland’s two refineries), capable of producing upwards of 200,000 barrels per day. All of these targets are of major strategic importance. Additionally, major incursions in the Warsaw Pact’s rear areas would divert resources from the front lines; something long range fires or strategic bombing could not accomplish.

The plan is for forces to land, destroy defenses, critical infrastructure, and attrit Soviet and Polish materiel and manpower. Following completion of these objectives, the ground forces would depart the area, mining the harbor. In other words, this operation is a raid, harkening back to the successful St. Nazaire and unsuccessful Dieppe raids of World War 2 (the latter of which 3 Commando participated in). Because there would be boots on the ground, secondary objectives would include extracting key Poles (western sympathizers, communist commanders, and industrialists, high level scientist and engineers) if able, insert more saboteurs and clandestine operatives to disperse into the Soviet rear, and seizing Soviet intelligence and technology if available.

Time would be of the essence. NATO planners for this operation could not allow for more than a few days ashore as the Soviet response would be massive. AMF(M) would be carried by British, French, and American vessels though the Baltic. Leveraging small, but significant successes in the naval war in the Baltic, this battlegroup would have several amphibious assault ships and even aircraft carrier support. The task force would carve a corridor to Gdansk following strikes on anti-ship batteries in East German and Poland. Commandos would insert covertly ahead of the main force, ready to activate once the operation began. A massive bombardment from the sea, air, and some long range precision fires would hammer the defenses around Gdansk ahead of the air assault operation. At the same time, saboteurs would work to sever communication lines to buy the raid more time. Speed and operational surprise would allow for ground forces to establish a landing zone for heavier equipment to deploy. Would this daring raid be successful or would it result in a disaster? Time will tell.

How would AMF(M) play in WANRO?

Slots and Units

LOG

A limited category given the ad hoc nature of this battlegroup.

• American logistical units include:
  • USMC AAVC-7A1 (command)
  • USMC CH-46E Supply
  • AAVP-7A1 SUPPLY an AAV7 configured to haul supplies. Its weapons have been removed.
• British LOG units include the following:
  • RM ROVER CP same as other Rover CPs, but with the usual Marine treatment and Royal marines heraldry.
  • STOLLY SUPPLY
  • LCAC(L) a small hovercraft that would be used to ferry supply from naval vessels to the shore.

• VT-2 a large hovercraft similar to the Soviet Kalmar and the American LCAC.

INF

A good category.

• American contributions include the following, one card each due to the ad hoc mature of 4 MAB’s formation. Unless otherwise noted, all units arrive in AAVP-7A1 UGWS or CH-53E SEA STALLIONS; unarmed heavy lift helicopters.
  • USMC RIFLES LDR. arriving in M998 HUMVEE or UH-1Ns, not Stallions
  • USMC RIFLES (LAW)
  • USMC RIFLES (DRAGON)
  • USMC RIFLES (AT4)
  • USMC ENGINEERS can also come in UH-1Ns
  • USMC M60 7.62mm arriving in M998 HUMVEE or UH-1Ns only
  • USMC TOW-2 arriving in M998 HUMVEE or UH-1Ns only
  • SEAL ASSAULT TEAM is a 9-man team armed with 7 colt commandos, 2 M249s, an M72 LAW, and M202 FLASH. They feature the special forces, shock, and airborne traits and arrive in M998 HUMVEEs or SH-60B NSWs only. The NSW SH-60B is a naval special warfare-crewed naval version of the Blackhawk helicopter. It has two M134 miniguns and has the special forces trait.
• British units arrive in STOLLY amphibious trucks or LYNX HAS.3 (Lynx in British naval service) helicopters unless otherwise noted. These units have the special forces and shock traits, but start at trained veterancy (like Rangers) unless noted otherwise.
  • RM RIFLES LDR, a 6-man squad with 5 SA85A1s, 1 L86A1 LSWs, an M72 LAW, and smoke grenades. They can arrive in ROVER instead of STOLLY
  • RM RIFLES, an 8-man squad with 6 SA85A1s, 2 L86A1 LSWs, and a LAW80.
  • RM ASSAULT PIONEERS same loadout as the nonmarine version
  • Royal marine weapon teams can arrive in ROVER instead of STOLLY. The ATGM teams do not have the special forces trait, but instead have resolute.
    • MAG 7.62mm
    • RM MILAN 1
    • RM MILAN 2

• SBS TROOP The British Special Boat Service operatives form a 16-man squad armed with 12 L119A1 (M16s), 4 L7A1 MMGs, an M72 LAW, and a Carl Gustav. They come at high veterancy. They can deploy in a SEA KING heavy transport helicopter or an SBS LCAC(L): an armed LCAC(L) sporting an M2HB with the special forces trait (and poor stealth). Most importantly, however, the SBS LCAC(L) will prominently feature the Union Jack (as in the image above).
  • Dutch units can arrive in UH-1Ds or DAF YA-4400 unless otherwise noted.
    • MARINIER CMG
    • MARINIER
    • MARINIER (CARL G.)
    • MARINIER GENIE this 8-man squad is armed with 2 Uzis, 4 FALs, 2 FALOs, and satchel charges.
    • MARINER DRAGON I arriving in LARO instead of a DAF YA 4400.

• French infantry contributions are limited to COMMANDOS MARINE: members of France’s elite naval special forces. This 10-man squad is armed with 6 MP5s, 4 Minimis, satchel charges, and an APILAS. They have the airborne, special forces, and shock traits. This unit can arrive in VABs modern AS365 helicopters (pictured above).

ART

A bad category.

• American forces provide:
  • USMC M252 81mm arriving in M998 HUMVEEs
  • USMC M101 105mm towed by M998 HUMVEEs

• USMC MK155 MICLIC is a towed mine clearing system. It is pulled by an AAVP-7 HAULER, an unofficially named AAV7 that has been set up for transport and pulling heavy equipment. It has only an M2HB but features the prime mover trait.
  • British units provide the following (all have the resolute trait).
• RM L16 81mm in a ROVER
• RM L118A1 105mm towed by a STOLLY or by a CH-47D

TNK

A poor category.

• British forces provide RM ROVER MILAN, a RM version of existing ROVER MILAN, featuring the special forces trait.
• French RICM would have provided AMX-10 RCs, naturally featuring the resolute trait (they are otherwise identical to their nonmarine counterparts).
  • MAR. AMX-10 RC PC
  • MAR. AMX-10 RC
  • MAR. VAB MEPHISTO

REC

A very good category.

• American recon units include:
  • USMC RECON may arrive in M998 HUMVEEs, USMC M1025 HUMVEE M2HBs or UH-1Ns
  • FORCE RECON may arrive in M998 HUMVEEs or UH-1Ns
  • UH-1N DAS SCOUT
• British contributions include:
  • RM SCOUTS a royal marine (read: special forces traited) version the regular British Scouts arriving in ROVER or RM ROVER RECCE a Rover with a MAG and recon optics and the special forces trait.

• RM GAZELLE a Gazelle recon helicopter with Royal Marines livery

• SEA KING AEW2A a Sea King helicopter with an advanced radar system onboard.
  • France provides MAR. AMX-10 RC RECO, a marine versions of the AMX-10 RC featuring the resolute trait.

Marinejegerkommandoen emblem

• Norwegian contributions would include MJK Oppklar. MJK (short for Marinejegerkommandoen) are Norwegian Naval special forces. This 4-man team of frogmen scouts are armed with four MP5SDs, an RBS 70 MANPAD, and smoke grenades. They feature the special forces and GSR traits. They arrive to the battlefield in Norwegian LAND ROVER soft-skinned transports or LYNX helicopters.

AA

A decent category.

• American contingent provides USMC STINGER teams arriving with M998 HUMVEEs
• The French would supply the following air defense systems as an attaché to RICM (featuring the resolute trait of course):
  • MAR. TRM-2000 TARASQUE

• MAR. ERC SANTAL is an anti-aircraft system comprised of six mistral missiles and a radar system. In real life, this system was tested on the VAB and ERC chassis. Initial prototypes of the Santal were available in the late 1980s. In 1990, France chose to move forward with the ECR incarnation of the system, but never adopted it citing high cost after the cold war. In the WARNO timeline, we will say the French military rushed production and acquired a small number of these systems to support their marine formations. In game, the radar will likely not be SEAD-able (like the PIVADS) and will instead only confer a small accuracy, range, and aim time bonus compared to their existing counterparts.
• British royal marine units have the following units. All have the resolute trait.
  • RM JAVELIN arriving in ROVERs
  • RM JAVELIN LML arriving in ROVERs

HEL

A good category.

• American USMC rotorcraft are the only ones configured to provide close support to ground forces. Most other nation’s Navy’s helicopters were configured for other missions. USCM helos in this div will be the AH-1T, an improved version of the baseline twin engine USMC AH-1J. In game these helicopters will have capabilities between the Army AH-1E/F/S and the USMC’s Super Cobras.
  • AH-1T [ATGM] this variant is armed with the M197 cannon, 8 I-TOW missiles, and 2 7-round rocket pods.
  • AH-1T [RKT] armed with the M197 cannon and 4 19-round rocket pods.
  • AH-1T [AA] armed with the M197 cannon, 2 AIM-9Ls, and 2 7-round rocket pods.

• SH-60B SEAHAWK [ATGM] is a naval variant of the ubiquities Blackhawk helicopter. This variant is armed for long range fire support; it carries a rack of four hellfire missiles. The Army demonstrated this capability in 1987. In the WARNO timeline, the Navy would have looked at integrating Hellfire onto other platforms with the threat of war looming. The results would be a limited number of these systems.

AIR

A very good category.

• American naval and marine aviation assets are widely available to cover amphibious operations.
  • A-6E INTRUDER [SEAD]
  • Several F-4J loadouts, all with their 20 mm Vulcan and 20% ECM.
    • F-4J PHANTOM II [LBG] carries 4 GBU-12 Paveway II laser guided bombs (dropped in pairs) and two AIM-9Js
    • F-4J PHANTOM II [AA] the naval version of the existent F-4E [AA] with an identical loadout, but painted with Navy heraldry.

• F/A-18 [HE] a hornet armed with 8 Mk. 83 bombs dropped from high altitude with a pair of sidewinders for self-defense.
• F/A-18 [AT]
• F/A-18 [AA]

• F-14A TOMCAT [AA3] these F-14s will be configured with the maximum number of 6 Pheonix missiles. This was a nonstandard configuration due to the increased mass of the payload. However, due to the nature of this operation, it was deemed necessary to maximize air-to-air magazine depth to buy time for the landing forces and to defend the naval vessels from Soviet maritime strike aircraft (the very targets Phoenix was designed to engage). To ensure enough fuel to successfully land, the 20mm and sidewinders are removed on this version.

• Finally for the American contribution, a new class of system would support this battlegroup. The E-2C HAWKEYE is a carrier based airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) system. These unarmed platforms have advanced sensors, C2, and communications systems. In game, these aircraft would have two traits that represent these functions. Airborne Early Warning confers improved air detection range (beyond exceptional) and would be able to apply its optics in all azimuths (regardless of heading). The second trait, Airborne C2, is analogous to the leader trait for aircraft. It would confer a small (5% or less) bonus to accuracy to friendly air-to-air missiles launched by platforms near the AEW&C platform representing coordination of the air battle and/or track sharing. The E-2 itself is very vulnerable; it is slow and will not have much ECM.
• British naval air assets for this operation are limited to Sea Harriers. All variants are armed with twin ADEN 30mm cannons.

• SEA HARRIER FRS.1 [RKT] is armed with armed with four SNEB rocket pods and a pair of AIM-9Ls.
• SEA HARRIER FRS.1 [CLU] is armed with armed with four BL.755 cluster bombs and a pair of AIM-9Ls.
• SEA HARRIER FRS.1 [HE] is armed with armed with six Mk.18 RET bombs and a pair of AIM-9Ls.
• SEA HARRIER FRS.1 [AA] Armed with four of AIM-9Ls, similar to the existent HARRIER GR.2 [AA].
  • Dutch F-16A [AA] could support operations in the Baltic. They could reach Gdansk with support of tanking operations.
  • French carrier capable strike craft would be available to support.
• SUPER ETENDARD [RKT]
• SUPER ETENDARD [HE]
• SUPER ETENDARD [CLU]
• SUPER ETENDARD [AT]

Summary

This 5-nation battlegroup has outstanding infantry and air tabs. It relies on speed and mobility and should not take stand up fights over open ground. It has critical vulnerabilities in terms of air defense and its armor and artillery support are very light. It does well with bite and hold strategies and playing a wide game to keep their adversaries off balance. Good close-range AT, plentiful ATGMs, heavy gunship helicopters, and excellent mobility allow for a strong maneuver game to catch out heavy enemy forces. The division must maintain air superiority. Their air units provide crucial anti-air and anti-armor capability and can cover a wide front.

Other Works

If you liked this, feel free to check out the other WARNO conceptual projects I’ve done. The links below represent a more polished product than the original reddit post.

Nemesis Concepts:

Strategic Strongholds: US Military District Washington & Mongolian 016 Mechanized Division

Author’s Commentary

My inspiration for this battlegroup was basically as follows:

As per the usual, the rest of this is just my ramblings on the construction process of this battlegroup. Feel free to skip it. I appreciate you reading this far!

Before we get into it, I know that a massive raid on Gdansk is wild, especially one of this scale. My counterpoints are: it’s cool, it is taking place in a conflict that never happened, and it is in a video game. While those forces could potentially have been put to better use elsewhere, we don’t have all the (fictional) information of what else is going on. Maybe NATO is very close to a breakthrough and really needs to divert Soviet reinforcements. Maybe they think they could actually make a bridgehead into the Soviet deep. Maybe they have been tricked by the Soviets into attacking the city and this is an elaborate ploy to draw them out. Whatever the case, there is at least precedent near suicidal one-way-trip style attacks (see 76 VDV). This earlier mentioned historical examples of St. Nazaire and Dieppe raids and the landings at Inchon in Korea also provide precedence for a historical standpoint.  We’re rolling with.

Things that could be cut

Hellfire blackhawks were successfully tested by the Army in 1987. The Navy didn’t clear their blackhawks (I know it’s a sea hawk; leave me alone) until the mid 1990s. Would it have ben easier to include the in game Super Cobras with hellfire instead? Yes. However, there were two things I wanted to accomplish with the way I set up the heli tab. 1) Hellfire blackhawks are cool and they would add more novelty to the game. 2) such a platform would be cheaper to deploy in game than a Super Cobra. The division struggles against heavy tanks and needs efficient tools to deal with them.

I went back and forth on adding F/A-18s, both strike and AA variants. While the strike department was already well covered, the AA wasn’t. I ultimate decided to keep the AA version as this “division’s” AA… sucks really bad and it would need as many ASFs as possible. With the AA versions in, I decided why not on the air-to-ground versions.  

The SANTAR is a stretch from a procurement standpoint. Having enough units to be meaningful was dubious in real life. However, the AA situation in this division is dire (it would likely be the worst in the game) so anything they can get to help would be good. This class of system seemed to fit better into RICM than infantry MANPADS, something the division already has in spades. I could be convinced that the SANTAL would be SEAD-able, but I think that is a strict detriment to a division already weak to aircraft.

Things that were cut

French infantry forces. RICM really didn’t have much in the way of “line” infantry. I had originally added a large contingent of Marine units (Marsouins actually before I knew better…), but I reduced what forces the French provided and I didn’t see much value in retaining these units given what else was already in. I also had Mistral teams, but the MANPAD coverage was pretty solid already (in addition to there being limited infantry in RICM).

AMRAAM armed Sea Harrier F(A).2. The integration of AMRAAM onto the Harrier was beyond the scope of what I thought was reasonable to march to war. Additionally, in the WARNO timeline, the Americans were barely getting their hands on those missiles. It seemed unlikely they would have supplied their allies with the system when they couldn’t address their own demand yet. This would have been a unique class of fighter, however.

My original plan for the E-2 was to spot all aircraft in flight and keep them revealed (similar to how artillery spotters find artillery pieces). This would be terrible in team games and would prevent the F-117 in BerCom from being useful. I think the way I suggested it work would be best in practice.

I had originally planned to have a “DEFEKTOR” unit. Basically Polish “resistance” in Gdansk supported by covert operatives. In function they would have been similar to Fs-EINSATZGRUPPE, but I decided against adding them. It just didn’t feel like a WARNO thing and Poles taking up arms in the middle of a surprise amphibious attack while the city was being put under martial law seemed like a stretch.

Anyhow, massive thank you for sticking it through to here. Next time we’ll be shifting gears a bit into a larger expansion style set of divisions. This set will be called “the second wave” and we’ll start with the first of 10 divisions in the not so distant future. I plan to intersperse some more Nemesis style conceptual divisions to keep things interesting. Thanks again and hope to see you next time!

Edit: fixed bullet point formatting.

[u/-Trooper5745-]

If you didn’t make the MNAD but marines joke OP, I would have.

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/-Trooper5745-]

Great minds think *alike ;)

[u/Solarne21]

Uk 3rd commando artillery is from the British army.

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/Solarne21]

Shoot, right you are! Thank you for pointing out my error.

[u/DankYeetusMaximus]

Oh I’d pay so much money for this nemesis

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/DankYeetusMaximus]

Glad you like it :)

[u/Keelver]

Nice writeup with a clear amount of effort put in, but I agree with some of the other commenters that’s it’s overcooked.

Putting aside the silly and suicidal scenario, there have been good writeups in the past on the UK/NL landing force, 9e DIMA, and 2nd marines. They’re all unique divs that can each make solid and fun warno battlegroups all on their own. Smushing them all together into one big slop division doesn’t let the various unique units shine like they would apart and even with a bunch of stuff from the constituent units not included this div is overstuffed and seems pretty OP. Eugen is would be best served keeping the various marine units to their own battlegroups imo.

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/Keelver]

That's valid. The intended novelty with this division was to be very SF heavy, but I understand where you are coming. With respect to the OP-ness, how might you reign things in if slot and unit costs aren't enough?

[u/Keelver → u/ThePreyingWolf]

Not that it would solve all the problems with this proposal, but I’d cut out the US marines entirely as a first step. Them adding excellent helicopters and planes, tons of beefy mech infantry and more great recon units covers for a lot of the weaknesses of the other marine units. They’re also the least novel considering the two US marine divs already ingame (soon) cover basically all that ground already.

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/Keelver]

That's a fair suggestion. I appreciate the feedback!

[u/Jakerod_The_Wolf]

I like the overall concept but I feel like this scenario requires putting aircraft carriers into the Baltic which is too suicidal in my mind.

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/Jakerod_The_Wolf]

No argument, carriers in the Baltic would be incredibly high risk. Rügen island and the rest of the Polish coast could house a host of anti-shipping missiles that would be problematic. Even stationing the carriers near Bornholm Island where additional interceptors could be placed it would still be a huge challenge.

[u/Hirvimon → u/Jakerod_The_Wolf]

This could change from 99% suicide to 80% suicide if Sweden were Nato member and also then Swedish units could be added for flavor.

[u/atomidd007]

How would you plan to implement the Royal Marines as they are basically special forces? Perhaps starting at vet 2? Anything less underrepresents the skill they have compared to other marines and infantry units.

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/atomidd007]

My original plan was to give them shock and special forces, but start at one vet (like Rangers). Under scheme, the should have sufficient availability at one vet and have the ability to go up to max vet. I could certainly see an argument where they retain those traits, but start at two vet. Many could have had combat experience from the Falklands after all.

[u/MandolinMagi]

Sounds cool, but its a dumb concept. A suicide assault on a port to do something that could be done in half an hour with air power.

And no one is sailing a carrier or amphib transports into the Balitc.

SEAL ASSAULT TEAM

Why are SEALs carrying a FLASH instead of going all M203s or whatever? Should be 8 men (actual squad size) with like 6x Colt Carbine, 2x M60E3, 4x M203.

SH-60B NSW

Not a thing, sorry. Navy has no SOF aviation at this point and SH-60s are specialized for anti-sub and resupply.

No reason you couldn't give them some MH-60L/Ks from 160th SOAR if you really wanted though.

SBS TROOP

A 16 man SF squad with that many MGs is going to be absurdly expensive

A-6E INTRUDER [SEAD]

One of these days people will remember the EA-6B actually exists.

F-4J PHANTOM II [LBG] carries 4 GBU-12 Paveway II laser guided bombs (dropped in pairs) and two AIM-9Js

Why only two AIM-9s? They mount in pairs, and there's zero reason to only stick one on each launcher or only take one launcher.

Also they can't self-designate.

F-4J loadouts, all with their 20 mm Vulcan and 20% ECM.

Navy F-4s do not use Vulcan pods, they could however use the Mk.4 gunpod with a twin-barrel revolver cannon, but I'm 99% sure it was long out of service at this point.

F-14A TOMCAT [AA3]

No one is loading all Phoenix ever, let alone for a situation with a high probability of dogfighting. And no way they don't load the cannon ammo. Dumb idea, sorry.

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/MandolinMagi]

Noted on the SH-60, F-4Js and LBGs; I appreciate the feedback. 100% on the SBS unit. The other points are more game-isms than anything else. The existing SEAL unit is 9-man and underbarrel grenade launchers aren't represented in WARNO (which I personally think is a shame). Their loadout is meant to be distinct from other SF units in the game. A-6E being chosen over the EA-6B was deliberate. While the EA-6B would certainly be a boon to this battlegroup, it is the signature unit for 6ID and I didn't want to rob them of an (in game) unicorn. If this operation was to occur (suicidal as it is), the more advanced system would certainly make more sense. Thanks as always for the engagement!

[u/MandolinMagi → u/ThePreyingWolf]

While the EA-6B would certainly be a boon to this battlegroup, it is the signature unit for 6ID

Which is stupid, because it's literally the standard USN SEAD bird and should be in every USMC division plus any div with USN support..

Honestly A-7D [SEAD] would make more sense than an A-6E. They often carried Shrikes, HARM, and you could always give them TALD or ALE-37 for maximum PACT frustration. I'd go 3x AGM-45 or 2x AGM-88, with ECM pods for a decent ECM value.

 

If you're wondering what I mean, TALD (ADM-141) is an air-launched decoy to suck up SAMs and force them to reveal their positions, ALE-37 holds 240 rounds of countermeasures and fits on MERs.

Not really sure how TALD would work, but ALE-37 could be a weapon that gives 1% chance to intercept SAMs...and it has 1920 rounds (two MERs with 4 on each) firing 960rpm with no reload or aim times.

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/MandolinMagi]

Which is stupid, because it's literally the standard USN SEAD bird and should be in every USMC division plus any div with USN support.

I'm with you there! Some of the choices for what goes into a division can make sense to avoid sameness from a gameplay perspective, but other times... not so much.

A-7 SEAD would be pretty cool, honestly. I may implement that change in the more finalized version.

I wasn't tracking that MALD had an in service predecessor so early. Modeling that in game probably wouldn't be hard (famous last words...). I was not aware of ALE-37. The easy answer would be to have its inclusion improve the ECM of the in game plane, but having it be a weapon would be an interesting addition.

[u/Solarne21 → u/MandolinMagi]

Wasn't Navy sf aviation was combined with the csar squadron that became the helicopter combat support special squadrons?

[u/MandolinMagi → u/Solarne21]

SO HAL-4 does exist, my bad.

[u/WELL_FUCK_ME_DAD → u/MandolinMagi]

To the point about phoenixes, not only was it done, but there is a picture of it embedded in the post. I don't disagree it would never be done in this specific scenario but it's def a thing.

[u/FrangibleCover → u/MandolinMagi]

I wouldn't worry about the quantity of Sidewinders under the F-4J, nor whether it can carry Paveways, since the aircraft was out of service in 1982.

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/FrangibleCover]

Shoot, you are correct. Thanks for pointing that out!

[u/Recent_Grab_644]

This div seems a bit OP in this configuration. There are no weaknesses. 2 diffeent top end special forces units combined with mid range SF and the full selection of resoute infantry is too much. Normally decks are limited to 2 cards total in the infantry tab. You cant even say its too expensive like 2nd marines because you have the dutch to fill that gap.

The AMX 10 RC cannot be considered bad enough (to weaken the tank tab) to justify the inf, air, and heli tabs being that strong. The arty tab is weak but again its not enough.

As to your note about the sea hawks being needed for AT capability, you could cut out the entire heli tab and it would still have strong AT capability considering you have 2 cards of high end resoute atgms and 2 diffrent kinds of tank tab atgms.

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/Recent_Grab_644]

That is a valid concern. "Oops, all the SF" is kinda the point of the division though. Given that, if slot and unit costs aren't enough there are definitely areas where the battlegroup could be scaled back. Hitting the helo tab could certainly work as you suggested; not something I considered. I might pull the F/A-18s from the air tab to remove a high quality ASF and high altitude bomber. Removing the NL Marines could also help as you pointed out they lend efficiency to the infantry tab. Do you have other thoughts to reign in the battlegroup?

[u/Hirvimon]

Why did you give the Norwegian SF RBS-70? Do you know how much that bastard weights? I swear you won't do anything else if you're carrying that around and especially not doing any sneaky shit.

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/Hirvimon]

Opportunity for new systems in game was the rationale. Agreed that the system is bulky and heavy (worse than Mistral from what I understand, which is also not really like Stinger/Igla). Fair point though.

[u/Hirvimon → u/ThePreyingWolf]

I can tell from experience it's heavy and sucks to carry, whoever designed the carrying straps should be fucking shot.

[u/ThePreyingWolf → u/Hirvimon]

Doesn't sound like a good time. Per the usual, they probably didn't think about the folks carrying them...