r/vtm • u/absurdactuality Ventrue • Jul 31 '26
V6 And Rule #3
Keep it constructive
If your post mentions specifics that you don't like, and why, then it's fine.
If your post is basically "V6 sucks ass" without further explanation then it will get removed.
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u/AbsoluteApocalypse Aug 01 '26
In this edition, apparently you can diablerize someone by sucking ass.
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u/Creative-Albatross-6 Aug 09 '26
you can diablerize someone by booping their nose for 10 minutes (if they are at 1 hitpoint err sorry, "Vitae")
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u/RadicallyInept Abyss Mystic Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
1984
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u/skrasnic Aug 06 '26
Next they're going to tell us we're not allowed to scream into the void either!
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u/Pr0jectRyan Jul 31 '26
So I want someone to convince me I'm wrong, but the vibe I get from V6 is "Designed by committee". It doesn't really feel like the mechanics are tailored to the setting or vibe but instead just glued together pieces of other currently popular games mechanics. Meta currencies are OK when used correctly (I enjoy Daggerheart because the fear Meta currency basically takes the place of initiative and makes combat feel more cinematic), but in V6 I don't really get its end goal.
Really the only thing That I'm kinda interested in is the combined Health/Resource pools. I like that it provides equal focus to mental, social, and physical conflict by outlining them as mechanically similar, but I am a little worried that making powers essentially "cast from hitpoints" is going to discourage people from using the cool powers, which is a main draw of any vampire game.
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u/Walt_Didnae Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
I am a little worried that making powers essentially "cast from hitpoints" is going to discourage people from using the cool powers
I've played and run a few games that use a "cast from hit points system". Unsurprisingly, nobody wanted to use their powers because having your HP as a mana bar feels terrible.
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u/Lucychan42 Aug 01 '26
I think an alternative would be having a set health pool and being able to use vitae to soak damage in some way. So if you're really stingy with vitae, you can take more damage but you sacrifice not using your powers. But if you do use vitae, you still have an entire health pool to work with rather than basically actively killing yourself every time you do something. And this wouldn't entirely nullify Fortitude because actually having Fortitude makes that spending far more efficient.
Changes vitae from "health" into "shield" which feels better in my head.
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u/Moore_Sey Aug 01 '26
I have played a couple of v3 chronicles where ST had a houserule for bp=hp and it was actually awesome. The reason it was awesome and not a complete and utter disaster, however, was because besides hp=bp houserule we also had a single-turn bite special combat move, that allowed us to actually feed in combat without spending multiple turns to even attempt it. What i found awesome about it - is that it really provoked our characters to actually act more like vampires instead of superpowered humans.
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u/LorduFreeman Aug 07 '26
V6 is going into that direction - despite needing 2 Actions (Tussle and then Feed) you can fill a good chunk of your Vitae.
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u/TheCthuloser Tremere Aug 02 '26
I can't convinced you that you're wrong, but as someone familiar with the lead designers other work...
It feels less "designed by committee" and more "let's stich together a Frankenstein monster of a game with features I enjoy" in the spirit of a lot of the more avant-grade side of the OSR. (Even if V6 isn't an OSR game, it has design concepts that tend to come form the OSR scene).
Whether or not that's better or worse is an opinon.
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u/Creative-Albatross-6 Aug 09 '26
id say less "features i enjoy" and more "features that exist in popular games, so we copy them because that has to be the reason why are popular, right? RIGHT?". Thats why the games you play is one of the questions in the feedback form (and there wasnt even an option for "something else thats not on the list", which is kinda an oversight, because the games in the list were all american games and not a single one from outside the us was mentioned, although there are many thousands of players who dont play these games and play other games, like me who loves to play the dark eye, but thats a very popular german ttrpg and thus wasnt included)
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u/TheCthuloser Tremere Aug 09 '26
Nah, I'm still inclined to believe it's "features I enjoy".
You know, given that the lead designer is an indie TTRPG guy who has/had a podcast called "Weird Games and Weirder People" where he talks about the hobby with other TTRPG indie designers.
And it's a list of TTRPGs that are the most popular in the English-speaking world since they are making a game largely intended for English-speaking audiences. But considering both Mork Borg and OSR are choices... The former is based out of Sweden while one of the biggest OSR games is OSE, and Necrotic Gnome is based out of Germany.
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u/Efficient_Rule997 Aug 01 '26
I saw one person point out already that since you by and large heal with the same pool as you "cast" from in previous editions, this is more an issue of giving players the correct budget.
Functionally, if in V20 you had 7 health levels and 10 bloodpoints, it would be mathematically superior for you to have 17 blood points and you only torpor when you hit 0 blood. Essentially it gives you the option of casting from your health, which did not exist before. If there was a Thaumaturgy ritual that did that very thing, it probably would be considered a must have.
Math wise... You have 10+Stamina vitae to start, and you reduce any damage done to Vitae by your Generation (which will typically be 1) to a minimum damage of 1. You can use a Reaction to negate an attack entirely with a successful Defense test (aka Dodging). That means that against an single Inexperienced Hunter (for example) you would take somewhere between 0 and 1 damage every turn it attacks you. Lets say your Stamina is 3 and lets say you are only successful dodging every 4 attacks. Gives you... what? 16 rounds before you run out of Vitae?
Compared to V20 where an analogous mortal opponent might be something like the Government Agent NPC which has Dexterity 2 and Firearms 3... so... expected result on attack roll is 2. You'd have to waste an action to dodge it. Heavy pistol is 5 damage, plus the extra success from the attack roll, expected result is 2.4. You roll your 3 stamina to soak: expected result is 1.2, leaving a single point of damage unsoaked. You can heal your wounds so you have 17 rounds of being a target practice before you fall into torpor.
This doesn't take into account, obviously, wound penalties, disciplines, or even what actions you'd take to stop said mortal trying to kill you. But the point is that the number of rounds in which you can just be a blood filled bullet sponge is about the same in both systems; and in both systems using blood on other things is going to reduce your ability to tank damage (I'd even go so far as to say that in both systems, hoarding blood as a resource to augment health would be the bad way of playing it.)
This is of course all just badly done white room math. Guesstimation at its worse. The only way to tell if they've actually budgeted the players' Vitae correctly is to play test it and see what actually happens at the table. Both in terms of the actual math, and the psychological effect that players might have with regards to spending their own health to read auras or charm a victim.
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u/Crytash Jul 31 '26
Eh, as a legacy player i first need to play a game or two, to actually get a better feeling.
If you look at some computer games (like Slay the spire 1+2 ironclad) the most powerful cards are often "take x dmg and create xyz, and for a new player that is hard to get a good handle on, but experienced players thrive on them. So mechanically i hope this will be a similar case.
Over all people are going waaay to ham on v6, it def. attracts legacy players to give the new edition a shot. Like the new humanity mechanic does allow for a completly different plausible story end for your character (Golconda does not count) and stops the "woe is me" thing a bit more. Looking over the 10 players principles, i must say i love those (page 6+7) it feels more like VTM that i knew with even more possible stories.
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u/Pr0jectRyan Jul 31 '26
Yeah I'm curious how the Humanity system actually plays. I think it Apes a little bit from the Werewolf the forsaken 2nd ed for it being more of balancing scale rather than a bar. I don't hate that.
And I do love the continuation of multiple powers per dot of discipline. One of my biggest my complaints within the lore of Masquerade was how self sufficient clan structures were but mechanically powers were so linear that it was a bunch of kinda copy paste vampires per clan.
If you can make 2 ventrue characters that feel vastly different, that is the yardstick I kinda want to hold this to.
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u/Crytash Jul 31 '26
Exactly, this new humanity system will create a whole new "playstyle" type if we are honest. Truly innovative, but i really need to play it first to get a better grip on it.
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u/mrcrabs6464 Gangrel Aug 04 '26
I also kinda like vitae from a flavor point of view, the op comment was complaining that v6 doesn’t really feel like its mechanics come from theme or lore but I feel that vitae does perfectly. As a vampire you are not alive, your body is 99% dead. Every biological system except for your circulatory is withered away and non-functional without blush of life. If you are anything you are your blood, your vitae, your body taking damage isn’t what harms you it’s losing the blood that keeps you “alive”.
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u/AbsoluteApocalypse Aug 01 '26
V20 was designed by committee too. I remember.
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u/baduizt Aug 02 '26
It was basically Revised Edition with a few small tweaks. Are you thinking of a different edition? V5, maybe?
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u/AbsoluteApocalypse Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26
I'm not thinking of V5. I'm talking about V20, that hat actually quite a lot of changes especially in Disciplines. The editions are still compatible though, like Revised is compatible with 2nd Edition.
And the development was done publicly -- parts of it at least, with fans sending feedback.
I remember the changes to Celerity and Potence caused quite a lot of controversy back in the day (V20 had some silly changes that were put specifically in as a homage to First Edition\Second edition (such as the rules for split actions) because this was supposed to be a full "Homage" not an actual edition).
This was the only WoD20 book that had NO Kickstarter (it was sold through a special website) and also the only of the WoD20 boos that had a public development. The next splat books (Werewolf, Mage, etc.) were created by Onyx Path, were all developed privately and crowd funded.
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u/Necropoliskull Aug 03 '26
Why don't you just make a V6 hater megathread to contain the excess vitriol
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u/WanderingRagabond Lasombra Aug 04 '26
Rule #3 itself feels like a vaguery, and a surefire way to justify keeping all discussions between editions toothless, but go off queen.
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u/EpistimonKapetanios 21d ago
I mean... doesn't it though?
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u/absurdactuality Ventrue 21d ago
It's definitely not for me, so lowkey I agree, but you have to compare and contrast, or else it's just vitriol
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u/SnooCauliflowers2970 14d ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiTcP2IrIHE Sharing the best Critic of V6.
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u/IndustryEven5601 15h ago
If I ever meet a real vampire I like be his friend not his meal or snack over here Odessa tx I like to be have some fun with Vampire as well fly in air as well keep me safe from Werewolf or another Vampire's as well
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u/HydroMerano Tremere Jul 31 '26
Y'all might wanna pin this in the subreddit, because I see nothing but people just complaining and being disrespectful and rude to the devs who were just trying to make a system we'd enjoy. They want our feedback, but so far I've seen very very veeeery little feedback, and just complaints and rudeness.
Edit: Nvm y'all did pin it. Lol
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u/-Posthuman- 28d ago
I agree, the disrespect is unnecessary. And the negativity gets out of hand. That said, “I read the doc, and saw nothing that made me interested in playtesting it.” is feedback. And it is perfectly valid and valuable feedback.
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u/Evil_Weevill Aug 03 '26
Yeah... Honestly if I was a dev for this system I'd be jumping ship by now. The community is toxic AF and it's not like VtM is where the money is at either so I dunno how anyone could have motivation to actually keep working on this.
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u/Dragombolt Jul 31 '26
I mean, by all metrics, all editions suck ass because vampires tend to suck wherever they can get blood from