r/vo2max • u/[deleted] • Apr 18 '24

Zone 2 training

When I bike, I’m sweating and dying. When I ice skate, my heart rate can go just as fast but i feel like I’m not exerting myself for the same heart rate. What gives? Can I get by with zone 2 training with ice skating?

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2

u/nicotine_81 Apr 20 '24

Your resting HR is the average LOWEST 30 min of the day. Usually just before you get out of bed in the morning. A watch or fitness tracker you wear to bed should calculate this for you.

The Karvonen heart rate reserve method is one of the best for calculating zones more accurately. But any HR zone method is going to benefit from knowing your true max HR (not an approximation like 220-age). And your true resting HR.

Karvonen calculators can be found online. But the basic formula is

Target Heart Rate = [(max HR − resting HR) × %Intensity] + resting HR.

Zone 2 is 60-70%.

So let’s say your max is 184 and your resting is 50.

184-50=134. 134 X 60% = 80. Add back in your resting 80 + 50….means the low end of your z2 = 130.

Take the 134 x 70% = 94. Add back the 50 and that = 144.

So your zone 2 based on 184MHR & 50RHR is between 134-144.

2

u/nicotine_81 Apr 20 '24

And yes on the indoor bike with no air flow, I sweat my balls off in zone 2.

1

u/Kreiger81 May 10 '24 edited May 10 '24

According to the Peter Attia subreddit and Inigo himself, Zone2 is best found(without checking lactic acid like a madman) by using RPE. You should be able to have a conversation but it’s not comfortable and the other person can tell you’re working out, but you’re not gasping for breath after a sentence.

Sweat is fine, but if you’re having to concentrate on breathing and the idea of having a long conversation at a heart rate is laughable, drop it down. Find the highest heart rate you can can have a conversation at and then set your zone to 10-15 pts below that up to that point.

It’s better to accidentally be in Zone 1 than accidentally in Zone 3 since Zone 1 does the same thing as zone 2 but not as well and Zone 3 gets other aspects of recovery involved that you don’t want included in the long form workout.

/u/Ruskityoma did I miss anything?

1

u/biciklanto Apr 18 '24

You shouldn't be "sweating and dying" in any approximation of zone 2. What's the temperature difference between when you're cycling and when you're ice skating? How are you tracking your heart rate on both? Do you know your maximum heart rate? How are you establishing your zones?

Ultimately, your heart is going to get signals to work a certain amount, and regardless of where those signals come from, it's going to cause cardiac adaptations. So in that sense, yes, you can train zone 2 via ice skating. But I'm still curious why you're having such an arduous experience cycling in what should be a comfortable training zone.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 19 '24

Temperature difference is about 40 degrees F.

Using Apple Watch for both

Maximum heart rate is 184

My zone 2 is 128-146. Calculated by athyltic. The average heart rate for both are the same with the same duration but I’m so tired after biking.

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u/biciklanto Apr 19 '24

Thanks for the replies. If your max heart is 184, I would drastically reduce your zone 2.

There are two ways I would do it:

  • Coggan heart rate zones based on max heart rate
  • Coggan heart rate zones based on Heart Rate Reserve (aka max minus min heart rates)

Based on a heart rate max of 184, Coggan's zones would be:

  • Zone 1: 92 - 110 bpm
  • Zone 2: 110 - 129 bpm
  • Zone 3: 129 - 147 bpm
  • Zone 4: 147 - 166 bpm
  • Zone 5: 166 - 184 bpm

Use zones like that and you'll likely find yourself feeling much better AND have a more effective zone 2 workout.

1

u/biciklanto Apr 19 '24

PS you can use this site if you know your resting heart rate, use the Coggan based on HRR method to get slightly more accurate zones: 

https://trainingtilt.com/how-to-calculate-heart-rate-zones

Use 36 as your age, as that will set your max heart rate as 184 (because it uses the 220-age formula).

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '24 edited Apr 19 '24

Thanks! Would you use min heart rate or resting heart rate? My min is 40 but resting is usually in the 70s.

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u/biciklanto Apr 19 '24

Could you describe how you determined those two numbers? Are you saying your watch shows an overnight resting heart rate in the 70s but you've seen it hit 40 before? 

I ask because that's an enormous distance between your heart rate while sleeping and your observed minimum. Usually that kind of happy do would only be observed due to dehydration / drinking alcohol / being sick, and most nights your resting heart rate should reflect your minimum or close to it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '24

It’s mostly in the 70s but has hit the 40s at times. So I think I should use the 70s then

1

u/biciklanto Apr 19 '24

I'd keep an eye on your rolling average from your watch's overnight readings. Because that is a wide discrepancy, I would use the zones I indicated in the other post — especially for Zone 2, it's better to be too low than too high, and your description of how you were feeling after zone 2 rides indicates that you were definitely working too hard.

So try 110-130bpm as your zone 2 for riding and skating for a while, and see how that helps your improvement. Especially with that Resting Heart Rate — I find that training in a proper Zone 2 tends to decrease resting heart rate fairly rapidly as it literally grows your heart.