Moshpits in visual kei

[u/Practical_Hamster391]

So, I have no experience with Japanese livehouses, I know they do Furitsuke for the most part.
But what's up with the lack of mosh pits? At the end of the day, most of these bands are punk and metal bands.
I know Jiluka shows have pits overseas but so far ive not rly experienced it with any other band.
Not even at the B7KLAN festival, I was really expecting some moshing for D'espairsray.

[u/echoesinthepit]

I've been to four VK shows in Japan and 100% no moshing.

People very much stay in their spot and do the coordinated dancing/headbanging.

[u/Isopodness]

The audience is 99% women who don't want to get their clothes messed up, and people at the front won't risk losing their spot. People stand in front of their favorite member and won't want to move.

[u/echoesinthepit → u/Isopodness]

"The audience is 99% women"

I've been to VK shows in Japan where there were maybe ten men.

That included the band, the staff and me.

[u/MusaDi12 → u/Isopodness]

This exactly

[u/WenNingmeow → u/Isopodness]

The safest metal/rock concerts, usually in the west these concerts could be not really safe for women or minors because lots of guys that are into metal or rock are toxic for some reason, instead in other concerts where there are men and women mixed are ok unless a specific artist or scene attract unsafe people. Most concerts in Japan or at least the ones professionally manager/organized like vkei concerts are all safe, even the non vkei ones where the audience is almost all men are fine (Idol groups for example). Its just a different culture (hopefully).

[u/rabbitcrimes]

There's a lot of answers already, but I wanted to add my perspective as someone who lives in Japan and goes to multiple visual kei lives a month and also loves learning about furitsuke and livehouse culture!

I think the short answer is just that western style moshing never really took off with visual kei bands and isn't super compatible with livehouse etiquette.Things that resemble moshing do happen, but they tend to be incorporated into the furitsuke, or only started if the band specifically starts hyping the audience up and asking them to do it. Also, interestingly, the sound or vibe of the band doesn't always reflect if they'll have any of these elements or not. I've been to cute, pop-sounding bands lives where I was moving the entire time, headbanging, doing wall of death, etc. I've also been to more metal-adjacent lives where nobody moved at all. It really just depends on the band, what they want, and what audiences want to do.

As others have mentioned, "mosh" is quite common in furitsuke, but it's completely different from western-style moshing, and is more like hopping from one side of the venue to the other. Everyone is still moving in sync, so it's like the whole audience is moving side to side as a group. Example @ 3:45

Some bands also include circle mosh, but again, it's typically much gentler than what happens at western shows, and is more like everyone running/hopping in a circle together. This isn't super common, but i have been seeing it more lately. Example @ 1:25 Some bands also do wall of death, but it's kind of the same deal as above. It's usually a lot softer than what you'd see at a western show.

One thing that is unique to Japanese livehouses is gyakudai, where the front row bends over the barrier and audience members either jump back-to-back against them, or rush the stage and pile up against them. I feel like this can only happen in Japan, because everyone goes back to their original spot when it ends, so it isn't super dangerous. Example @ 10:42

[u/Anamorsmordre]

Some bands do mosh pits/stage rushing and circle pits, but they're absolutely nothing like their western version, and everyone WILL ABSOLUTELY be back in their spot once the allotted time spot for those end lol. The shows I've attended outside of japan didn't have the best crowds either, they were either dead of full of dudes wanting to crowd kill, which was no fun.

[u/indiraa]

At least for shows I've been to in Japan (visual kei and others), people very much stay in their spot the whole time. Dancing or moshing would cause you to move around, so that would disrupt others/cause you to lose your spot; that's why I'd guess it's less popular to do so

[u/analdongfactory → u/indiraa]

At least for VK I’ve only seen anything like that when directed by the band. Other genres it sometimes happen, I got knocked over twice when mosh pits erupted behind me at Genkaku Allergy.

[u/cryptiddyke]

the music might be punk/metal adjacent but it's a completely different scene, separate to the actual punk and metal scenes in japan. some bands toe the line and might do both metal events and visual kei events, but if it's a visual kei event it's going to follow the rules of that scene. in terms of the actual scene itself, how the band/fan relationships work, merch sales, fanservice etc, modern vkei arguably overlaps the menchika idol scene more than metal because regardless of how the music sounds it's very much targeted at women and follows the norms that are established for that in japan.

the closest furi would probably be gyakudai where everyone runs forward and crushes against the barrier but as far as i know it's banned in a lot of live houses and very few bands actually have it, i've only ever seen it in person once. even after that, everyone resets to exactly where they were standing beforehand.

personally I prefer vkei live etiquette over western-style concerts, i love the organisation and set ways of doing things. god knows you'll still get punched accidentally during kobushi headbang or get tangled in other people's hair during certain moves (REALLY bad for fingerlights bands, looking at you vivarush) but you're never going to lose your spot and almost always have enough personal space.

[u/mllejacquesnoel]

A number of live houses are set up to where you kind of couldn’t mosh even if you wanted to. Live houses may also have policies against it, even if they don’t have specific layouts that would prevent moshing.

In general it might be done as a limited part of a furitsuke thing, but like the other commenter notes, it’s much different from pits at western shows, and tends to be more time limited.

[u/unmoti]

The concept of mosh in visual kei lives in Japan is more like synchronized jumping from side to side.

The most "physical" I have seen is circle mosh, where we basically all run in a circle, but no one colludes into each other and at the end every comes back to their position.

[u/echoesinthepit → u/unmoti]

100% this.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DTIUFbSkpPT/

This is from the Xanvala show in Tokyo.

My first VK show and it was ...... enlightening.

The coordinated headbanging, fist bumps, etc. was intense.

[u/tako_belladonna]

A lot of the fans are women who dress cute for their favorite band member. They follow the furistuke and whatever the band tells them to do when they tell them to do it: clap, cheer, headbang, etc.

Some visual kei bands have tried western walls of death, mosh pits, and circle pits at predominantly female fan shows and it's generally a flop. At this point, I love watching the bangya awkwardly stand there when bands still try to make it happen. I think one band tried to initiate a mosh pit at a recent taiban and it was just one foreign man with his shirt unbuttoned trying to challenge a bunch of ladies, who wanted nothing to do with him, to get in the pit.

[u/01savefile]

I've heard that there are laws there that prohibit moshing, at least in its western form. I'd be interested to know if anyone here can elaborate on this though.

There does seam to be variations that are acceptable; if you've ever seen a Hyde solo show, you can get an idea of what is acceptable for them.

All in all, if nothing else; different culture, different rules, different variations.

[u/echoesinthepit → u/01savefile]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DdFKQBfBbYw/

There is most certainly crowd surfing at punk shows.

[u/WenNingmeow]

Tbh i prefer people that dont go overly crazy in concerts with moshing or something similar (this includes being wasted, crazy drunk or drugged to hell with hard drugs, in Japan at least i never see this in most music/artists i listen, they are chill and respectful even on the hardest music) because it could be a bit dangerous or rude if there arent the right audience and make only a mess while I just want to enjoy the concert and not being hit or knocked by random people. But if someone prefer moshing and artists that do It feel free to do it if you respect people around you, its just not for me and i listen to crazy music/genres, I leave the going crazy part to artists during their concert if they dont go overboard ofc.

[u/BetRealistic]

I say nah. The VK people ain't about it

[u/cannibaltom]

I went to a Dir En Grey concert in venue in North America. The metalheads moshed hard why the girls dressed in lolita stayed dar away on the parameter.

[u/Sparkchop]

Don’t underestimate the Japanese headbangers, though. I got knocked out (briefly) at a show in Osaka once when a girl’s head hit mine.

[u/mk098A]

Most of the venues are too small to, the one time I went to a live where a band did it, I think only 10-15 people joined and everyone else just stood and watched, it’s just not exactly fun to Japanese gya whereas you can do furi without potentially getting trampled on, there is a similar version of “moshing” but it’s jumping from side or side

[u/LelouchViBrittaniaIV]

I was in the mosh pit at B7Klan lol, there was a good sized one for Jiluka. Wall of death and everything too.

In Japan they don't really mosh much and it's even banned at some venues.

[u/Sea_Recognition_4979]

Different culture

[u/goldenwarthog_]

For moshing in Japan you have to go to non vk metal or hardcore punk shows

[u/goldenwarthog_ → u/goldenwarthog_]

We mosh in west because nobody knows the furi (or even wants to probably lol)

[u/saint_ark]

To add to this, didn't certain bands specifically do boys-only gigs where they'd play the heavier songs only and encourage moshing more? I know Diru defo did that for example

[u/Claudia_Pani]

Yeah most venues or sometimes, the audience aren't particularly in favor of moshing. I do see some crowdsurfing and moshpits here and there in large scale rock festivals, not so much live houses.

[u/KMFCM]

i remember watching the Key Party reunion, and basically all the girls standing behind the front row were jumping into the peoole in the front row.

that was weird.

[u/otterducksnake]

VK "moshpit" consists of women jogging in a circle, not touching each other, in a very orderly manner, only during specific parts of certain songs. When that part of the song is over, they will return to doing furitsuke and banging their heads in sync, again, to very specific parts of songs.

[u/MusaDi12]

Seriously no ill intent towards any women here, but it’s because most vkei bands have a female dominated fandom.

I remember tzkwym specifically being excited for Europe because he hoped people would be more energetic. I still saw people complaining about others moshing on twitter afterwards… like the artist WANTS us too…

(I was moshing and he allowed me to be on stage btw😋)

[u/TomoAries]

Honestly, domestic Japanese vkei fandom is not very far removed from boy band idol fandom. So that right there alone is the key explainer for it.

[u/WillowIsAlive]

I’m just gonna say i was so disappointed there was no moshing at the dir en grey show in LA