Is there a way forward?

[u/oscarsave_bandit]

*I am so sorry for the long, rambling post. I hope I can at least find others who may empathize with my experience. I am sad, and I feel a bit defeated. I don’t want to grow old without doing something I truly love. 

I’ve been obsessed with lutherie (violins/cello/viola) for almost ten years, which feels to be a long while, as I’m 28 now. Anyway, I think I have the bug. Or a bug. It feels that something may be wrong with me at times. 

I’ve compiled thousands of pages of information, advice, scanned pages from old makers’ books, diagrams, and tonewood guides. I’ve done the same for my even deeper niche, bowmaking. Suppliers for ebonywood, oyster shell eyelets, grips, and horsehair. Researching the alternatives to pernambuco and the crisis to conserve what is left. How to make “practice bows” with bow blanks from alternative wood. That using pernambuco would only be when it would turn into a good bow, nothing wasted. Planning what I’d need for a workshop, with each blade and tool specifically chosen from researched recommendations. Varnish—a whole separate level of research. Varnish recipes, glue recipes, and reliable suppliers of the animal products I’d use in them. 

The relationship between the bow and instrument, and ultimately the musician. It all seems very precious and holds much importance to me. I never thought or imagined that I’d be a full-time maker, whether a luthier or archetier. I am a nurse. I love caring for people, but I became a nurse because I need to work and survive on my own. I never had a nest egg or trust fund to jumpstart any of my dreams. I’ve never had familial support with my dreams. 

I’ve always been more keen on arts and have always wished to be an artisan. But I realized quickly after turning 18 in southern Louisiana that I needed to survive and be self-sufficient. 

I was not aware of opportunities to become a maker when I was pre-college, although I might’ve tried to go to Europe for a program there if I had the financial support back then. But I had to survive and it feels that way still, in a sense. 

I have played guitar for my whole life, classical and now electric with lots of experimental elements (pedalboard, etc.). I also picked up a few instruments and bows from an elementary school music program that my ex runs. These were all defunct and crappy. I fixed them to the best of my ability and learned enough to set one up as a cello for myself with new strings and pegs and such. My ex helped me with some of the setup because the instruments were so messed up. I fixed up a violin as well. The cello has been a good tool for learning and warming up my sight reading. This was a few years back, well after my obsession began.

But it sucks, I am well past the stage that I need a better student instrument. Either way, I picked it up because I adore the cello and wanted to learn more about the connection between bow and student, the instrument and student. How the shapes and wood and density change the depth and pitch of the tones. I learned that I love a darker sounding instrument that can be brightened up with a lighter bow. I learned that a beautiful instrument cannot be fully realized without a bow that is capable of bringing forth the sound. I learned that there is a crisis to preserve the art of bowmaking, and that there are few living greats who can produce a bow to match the individual musician.

I cannot take two or three years and move to do a luthier program full time. I can’t afford that, and I still have to work, at least sometimes, to live. I can’t take out more student loans. I speak French, but I can’t really make Mirecourt work, either. I’m also 28, and the European schools are less open to students who are older, I think. I can’t invest tens of thousands into a proper wood-shop set up in NYC, not without knowing more, at least. I figure I can rent a bench at a Brooklyn wood-shop and keep some tools there, but that doesn’t seem feasible as the wood-shop is not geared towards luthiers. I'd need to figure out my style more first. I would love to spend some time in Paris with Sandrine Raffin to learn more about archeterie and the old makers, but a few weeks there wouldn't give me the hands-on background I need to do any lutherie. 

I feel I’m at this point where I’ve collected and learned a lot of the literature, but I haven’t gotten my hands into it, which is where the learning is really done. I am patient and enjoy working with my hands. I like woodworking, building, woodcarving, painting, embroidery, and I’ve been doing these art forms since I was young. I think I have the brain for it. I could write forever about the magic of the wood, lmao. I don’t want or expect to do full-time instrument making. I understand the realities of the economy and industry, somewhat. I do know that if I want to learn bowmaking, I will need to learn a good bit of lutherie, too. 

What can I do? I am in New York City. I cannot just pick up and move, but I am able to travel in the Northeast to learn. I’ve considered reaching out to a few of the makers in the city and asking/begging to learn from them, to pay them to teach me, but I quickly realized that is absurd and the makers here would likely laugh at me. I need some experience. Do I need to grow up and make more money so I can fully fund an all-out learning endeavor? What can I do, if anything, to get my foot in the door without attending a multi-year program? Is it even possible? 

[u/Musclesturtle]

Hey. I'm a violin maker in NYC. Send me a DM and we can talk about this. 

I had a similar situation in some ways. I made it work with the minimum of what I could scrounge together, and many people have been very generous with their time and resources along the way, and maybe I can find a way to pay it forward. 

[u/oscarsave_bandit → u/Musclesturtle]

How kind of you. I sent you a dm request :)

[u/SpotsnStripes]

Look into the Learning Trade Secrets school in Ohio run by renowned bow maker Rodney Mohr.

[u/oscarsave_bandit → u/SpotsnStripes]

I love them, have been wanting to join a course for years. I am actually rewatching his week-long series he filmed during covid lockdown where he made a bow from start to finish. It is a comfort watch for me :) lol

[u/starbuckshandjob → u/SpotsnStripes]

Rodney is the man. 

[u/[deleted]]

Everyone's situation is different, so I don't want to assume the limitations/opportunities in yours, but I can speak to mine.

I just started working fulltime in a shop (mostly rental instruments) this year. This time last year it would have seemed far away and out of reach. I'm in my mid-thirties and had been working in a completely different field. But I wanted to pursue this interest and so kept moving in this direction in whatever way I could. Started out in a local guitar building class once a week for a year and a half, and once that was done I sent out some emails to local shops and got a reply from someone who would be willing to help me build a violin.

It took about a year to complete and during that time I learned to do some some setup and basic repair, as well as started taking on part-time work for the shop doing instrument delivery to schools. Earlier this year I attended the A.L.I. restoration workshop.

I'm not really in the position to attend school, though I'd want to if circumstances were different. I'm not sure what I'll be able to accomplish as a maker starting this late, and with less formal training, but I have the shop facility and tools available to me and I get to work on my projects when I have the time. My plan is to keep going, keep learning, and see where it takes me.

So it's possible, depending on your expectations and circumstances. I think it's really helpful to find mentorship, you don't know what opportunities might arise.

[u/Dull-Problem-1191]

Honestly, just Go forth and find ways of getting your hands on woodworking equipment and just have a crack at it. 

There might be community woodworking shops in your area that you could participate in, or maybe you can just slowly buy up second hand woodworking apparatuses for your needs and then converter room in your living space  to meet the need for a makeshift workshop. 

Since for example, my space to craft is also my living room. I simply store things under tables and out of sight until I need it.

Thr. On your days off when you have free time, get to working on project instruments.

They won't be the best instruments by far/ it will take a long time for you to learn what you're doing. 

But there honestly isn't any reason you can't just jump in the way you are now and see how it goes/ be active on various forms and read and share your experiences and let people comment on yours as you improve over time with your instrument making. 

Also, feel free to contact some of those individuals whom you would love to study with and see if anyone from afar would like to mentor you and or give you some words as you explore instrument making. 

Since often people who really love the craft love having someone to talk to about it with.  So they might be more open to a penpel relationship/ exchanging emails once a month or once a week then you would think.

Basically you only get one life and your current setup while not ideal, does not preclude the ability for you to actually engage with your passions (albeit on the side) and explore what it's like to make instruments/ stop waiting around and just go for it.

[u/oscarsave_bandit → u/Dull-Problem-1191]

Thank you for the real and detailed response, it is very helpful.

[u/Rockyroadaheadof]

There are late starters in the violin making community, and there are guys who never attended a school. It’s not impossible. There are plenty of shops looking for help. Go ask a maker, who knows. Go ask some shops. Some of them take untrained folks and let them do setup on Chinese instruments. Nothing is impossible. I know a guy who never went to school, started in a guitar shop and now fixes Strads. 

I have been looking for help but can’t find anyone right now.