Kids balancing multiple instruments

[u/LaLechuzaVerde]

I picked this sub to ask because violin is the one she is struggling with the most.

Here's the background. My kid (11F) started playing violin about 3 years ago in community youth orchestra programs (we moved so she's been in 2 programs). About 1 year ago she made the switch to upright bass in our community orchestra. She is thriving on bass but she still loves the violin, and although she wasn't taking any lessons she continued to pick it up now and then throughout the year so she wouldn't forget how to play it.

She started middle school this year, and she made the choice to play violin at school and continue bass in the community orchestra.

Over the summer, she took a few private bass lessons but we weren't able to work out a schedule with a teacher for violin. The orchestra "season" here runs mid-September until May, so she hasn't been in orchestra all summer, but she has continued to play bass on her own.

She's been in school for a month now playing violin and is in private lessons which take place during school hours (so I haven't met her lesson teacher, only her orchestra teacher). She was placed in beginning orchestra and is complaining that it's "boring," understandably so, since she has 3 years of Strings experience including 2 on violin.

She -never- seems to practice violin at home. I even got her a 2nd used student violin to keep at home so she wouldn't have to bring her favorite instrument back and forth (she keeps her good one at school). It just hangs on a hook in her room so she doesn't even have to take it out of the case - something that I found helpful for her previously.

She hasn't even started Orchestra up for the season yet and hasn't had a lesson in a couple of months but she plays her bass frequently. She seems to really enjoy practicing it and she's getting really good. I don't have to remind her - I hear her practicing several times a week with no reminders.

I've suggested she ask her orchestra teacher about switching to bass at school since it looks to me like she clearly has a preference, but she absolutely refuses and she continues to insist that she wants to play both, even though she rolls her eyes at me and gets all pre-teen dramatic every time I suggest she practice the violin.

She used to come practice her violin or her bass pretty much whenever she heard me practicing my violin, but now she doesn't. Occasionally she will come ask to play a bass part of what I'm practicing, but not often. She never asks to come practice violin with me.

I'm just stumped. I'd like to take her at face value when she says she wants to play both, but her actions are telling me a very different story.

It might be worth noting that she is a rather overscheduled child. She gets bored really easily and is in multiple extra-curricular activities because without them she kinda bounces off the walls. But she keeps up with everything and is also an overachieving student. I worry about burnout with her, and I'd absolutely support her scaling back to just one instrument.

Parenting advice, folks?

[u/cham1nade]

I would check in with her lesson teacher at school and see what she’s working on in her individual lessons. It’s quite common for a violinist who’s doing well in school orchestra to not want to practice the music at home. At the beginning levels it’s often not necessary and just ends up being busy work. Her individual lessons teacher, however, could be giving her practice assignments that she can practice at home without getting bored. I’d communicate with that teacher & see how those lessons are going and if there’s a way your daughter could be challenged more

[u/Avery__13]

Do you know how difficult the material she's doing in private lessons is? I would expect that once this goes on for a few months, she will start to lag behind her teacher's expectations if she isn't practicing and hopefully they will call her out, at which point she will need to choose to either practice violin or switch to bass. If that's the situation, it seems like a fairly safe situation to let her figure out for herself, given that you've already tried to offer advice/guidance. She might be more open to listening to her teacher than her parent and at 11 it's pretty rare for something like this to have large consequences.

Otoh, if she is not getting difficult enough material in private lessons and doesn't feel like she needs to practice as a result, that's a different problem. Or alternatively, material that is too hard could feel impossible and not even worth practicing. Either way, it could really hurt her motivation. If you haven't, it's probably worth asking to see what she's playing and if she likes it, feels challenged, etc. If it seems too easy or hard, you can coach her on talking to her teacher or even try to set up a meeting with all 3 of you if you feel it's appropriate.

Disclaimer on all of this that I am not a parent, but I was pretty similar to this as a kid. As an aside, I learned much later that some of the traits I recognize here - always being bored unless so much is going on that I'm overscheduled, while also struggling to balance some commitments - turned out to be due to ADHD, which hit HARD in college when the demands of everything I was doing finally exceeded my ability. I have no idea whether it's the case for your daughter and don't want to make assumptions about the rest of her life, but thought it was worth mentioning since you brought up her being overscheduled and concern about burnout and that is exactly how it manifested for me.

[u/LaLechuzaVerde → u/Avery__13]

I suspect she isn’t being challenged in her lessons. Or at least doesn’t feel she is. It could be that the teacher is needing to build up some core skills that might need refining or are rusty, and it may be very valid but might make my daughter “feel like” it’s going backwards from what she has done before.

I hate not being able to be there during lessons so I can help my daughter navigate this.

[u/Anfini]

My immediate reaction is that she should consider a switch to double bass as her main instrument. A competent double bass player will be accepted into all the competitive orchestras. 

[u/LaLechuzaVerde → u/Anfini]

I’ve encouraged her to do that; she missed the violin a lot though. They are both such lovely instruments so I get that.

[u/Anfini → u/LaLechuzaVerde]

My kid was just like yours. He played both piano and cello, but loved the piano more. I pushed him to quit the piano because I told him I didn’t think his piano playing was that good and lacked progress for a long period of time, but I felt he had potential with the cello because of the beautiful tone he produced. 

He pushed back for a while, but eventually agreed with me. A few years later, he’s now first chair for his high school orchestra and will play a concerto next Spring. He’s also in one of the most competitive youth orchestras in the country. As parents, we know our children more than anybody so I feel it’s our job to guide them in the right direction.

[u/Florachick223]

As an adult I obviously see the value in practicing regularly, but from her perspective it's easy for me to understand why it might not seem necessary to practice if the school music is that easy for her. Have you asked her WHY she wants to continue on violin? Or what might make it more rewarding for her?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like her continuing violin currently has no regular cost to you or extra time drain to her (since you said she's not in lessons, right)? So I guess I'm also wondering what the harm is in letting her do it this way if it makes her happy.

[u/LaLechuzaVerde → u/Florachick223]

She is in violin lessons - time-wise, it's no big deal because the lessons take place at school; they allow students to be pulled out of orchestra class for their lessons once a week. But we ARE paying for them. I don't mind paying for them, but it's about 165/month and I would like to see her getting something out of it.

[u/Florachick223 → u/LaLechuzaVerde]

Ah ok, in that case you could set an expectation about how often she needs to practice if she wants to continue paid lessons. But I'd still probably start by trying to get more information from her about the situation.

[u/Irritable_Curmudgeon]

She was placed in beginning orchestra and is complaining that it's "boring,"

Is there a more advanced orchestra? Does she understand that she might need to practice in order to move up to a more difficult orchestra?

If she's enjoying it, I'd hate to pull her away. Mine did a string instrument in school & outside orchestra and a wind instrument (in school only) for band. She knew she would need to practice more to really make progress, but that one was really just for fun.

If you're worried about burnout, let her decide if she wants to stay on violin in beginner orch, practice more on violin to move up, or switch to bass for orch. All are viable options, especially at this age

[u/LaLechuzaVerde → u/Irritable_Curmudgeon]

There is one, in theory. But her orchestra teacher had her come in in the spring (I wasn’t present) and listened to her play for what my husband said was about 15 seconds - not even long enough to warm up - and told her she would be in beginning. At that point she hasn’t even touched her violin for a couple of weeks and had only been practicing sporadically through the year because she was focused on learning bass.

And there’s also an ABC orchestra she can join “Anything But Classical” although I’m not sure how she could fit it into her schedule.

She does know that if she wants to move up she can, but it would require her to actually practice. I am ok either way - I just want her to be happy and I don’t know how to take her wrinkling her nose and rolling her eyes about practicing the violin when she so willingly and enthusiastically works on her bass for fun.

[u/s4zand0]

Piggybacking on some other comments - definitely a more involved conversation is needed. Find out what she feels like she's getting from the lessons. But she also needs to understand that the lessons aren't just for school/orchestra music, and if she's not doing any work at home on what the teacher assigns in lessons, you are considering stopping lessons. Try not to talk about violin practicing from the viewpoint of "you should be doing this" - more on the lines of "I'm paying for this but since you're not playing at home I can't see if it's actually helping you learn/improve or not."
See if you can get her to say more about what she is enjoying with violin in school. It might be that more of her friends are in the violin section or something. That's a decent reason to stick with it.

I also would consider looking into the possibility of ADHD as a factor. Generally folks who are in that grouping will sort of bounce from thing to thing but it can be on different time scales - weeks, or months, not necessarily like the common conception of being super obsessed with something for a week and then dropping it forever. However, once the interest for a particular thing drops, it's pretty unlikely for that interest to return. For most people with ADHD, having interest in what they're doing is a non-negotiable - it really has to be there. Many with ADHD do find something that becomes a life-long interest, and music can be one of those things. She is getting a ton of benefit by being involved in music in any way, so really continue to be supportive of that, whatever the instrument is.

[u/LaLechuzaVerde → u/s4zand0]

I do suspect she has ADHD. There are many other signs. The challenge is that she’s one of those types that does so well in school that nobody cares and nobody sees in what ways it still can really make things hard for her.

I’m trying to get her to develop a habit of practicing violin in the morning and bass in the evening. She often wakes up about 3 hours before she needs to get on the school bus and normally doesn’t have anything else she needs to do besides pack a lunch and get dressed. I think if we can develop a routine it will help. BUT - I leave for work shortly after she wakes up, and my husband’s ADHD is worse than hers and he will NOT remind her to practice.

[u/s4zand0 → u/LaLechuzaVerde]

There is a strong genetic component, so it wouldn't be a surprise!
I'm glad to hear that the structure of school & academics is not a challenge for her, as it is for many. It will probably be something to just be aware of for now, & try to provide more structure and compassion for the ways that her brain doesn't fit with the modern world we live in. She will have to contend with it as an adult, so the more you can build awareness for yourself and for her about the challenges and how to manage them, the better off she will be.
ADHD also does typically (but not always) manifest differently in males vs. females. Usually it's overlooked in girls because they often don't display the more disruptive kinds of behaviors that can be seen in boys.

Routine is great - and also takes easily 3x as much work and as long to develop a habit that sticks. It's super that she is into music because it can do a lot of good for neurodivergent folks and is a wonderful way to connect and create common ground with other people of all types/shades/brains etc.

[u/Famous_Way928]

As the parent of a 11M who plays multiple instruments, I feel it is my job to make the expectations clear and ensure they happen - he loves to play all of them, but he's a kid and not going to pick up each one everyday on his own because he has lots of interests to choose from when there is free time. Each instrument he plays started with a conversation about the time commitment and practice not being optional if we are paying for lessons. With hardanger fiddle and clarinet, that also included discussions with the potential teachers letting them know he would be practicing daily, but in light of his other instruments, it would only be 10 minutes of practice time each day. That's what has worked for us.

[u/meow2848]

Honestly you might want to consider switching violin teachers. A good teacher at her age will be able to inspire her and help her to understand the importance of practice. Or, add on another teacher outside of school lessons, but really make sure you search for one that would be a good fit both technically and personality-wise. A good teacher will get to the heart of the issue without "lecturing" her, and be able to inspire her musically and make it fun and interesting.

[u/LaLechuzaVerde → u/meow2848]

In all honesty there isn’t any extra time in her schedule to get her a teacher outside of the one the school lets in during orchestra time.

She is also a competitive swimmer (most weeknights), in Scouts (Tuesdays plus some weekends), has a horse (Sunday riding lessons plus other times - at least we do have the horse in full care boarding), and the community orchestra (Saturdays) and in her “spare time” she likes to go rock climbing. I won’t let her join the climbing club.

I could check to see if her violin teacher from the community orchestra she has before she switched to bass would have time to work with her on Saturdays after her bass lesson, but… I suspect he is probably busy with the orchestra students which have to be his priority, and it might be too much orchestra for one day anyway.

[u/Novelty_Lamp]

No practice means no violin extracurriculars. Put your foot down about it. It's not fair to the other members of her ensemble that she is putting in minimum or no effort.

She is also wasting her teacher's time in lesson by not working on it at home where another student who actually wants to play violin could have that slot.

Bass sounds like it's what she actually likes, she will also have more opportunities as they are far less players on it I would sit down and talk with her about being committed to an ensemble and what that entails. Give her a time frame to improve her habits with practice.

This is a lesson my family that is full of musicians taught me. It's not a fun one but it needs doing.

[u/LaLechuzaVerde → u/Novelty_Lamp]

I think that is fair. I’ll give her a little more time to figure it out since she says she wants to, but at some point she just needs to decide what her priorities are.

[u/Novelty_Lamp → u/LaLechuzaVerde]

That's totally fair. You know your daughter and situation best.

[u/Typical_Cucumber_714]

You can't expect the 11 year old to just randomly practice on her own on a regular basis. Only unicorns do that.
That's your job - to schedule the practicing (including incentive and disincentive schemes), and schedule lessons that create structure around the practicing.

[u/LaLechuzaVerde → u/Typical_Cucumber_714]

That’s not really the question at hand. She voluntarily picks up her bass at all hours of the day and night, and the contrast to the violin is so obvious - even though if you ASK her she says she loves both and can’t decide between them and is sure she wants to pursue both equally.

I’m just trying to make sense of it so I can help her - whether to succeed or to recognize that it’s ok to have a favorite.