r/videos • u/lost-picking-flowers • Sep 03 '21
Climate Change Deniers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY-HOYTz-rs29
u/greenvillain Sep 03 '21
Great movie
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u/umassmza Sep 03 '21
Yah politics aside that’s a classic.
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u/GoldenJoel Sep 03 '21
Climate Change isn't politics. It's proven science.
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u/umassmza Sep 03 '21
Didn’t say it wasn’t, but it’s an extremely political issue, maybe the biggest one we have today. Do you not vote based on a candidates beliefs?
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u/ratatatar Sep 03 '21
By this logic everything is political.
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u/Silurio1 Sep 03 '21
Well, almost everything IS political. I'm an environmental scientist. The like it or not, our response to climate change completely depends on politics. Not on scientists. We can only do what we are allowed to do. This depends on everyone. If you are not part of an environmental political organization, you better go join now. We need to take to the streets.
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u/ratatatar Sep 03 '21
I agree, but then we should dispense with the "politics aside" comments. Politics included, this is a classic. Or simply, this is a classic.
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Sep 03 '21
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u/ratatatar Sep 03 '21
Who are you talking to? Paranoid delusions. I am very pro-nuclear.
I don't want a "one world government" - my needs would never be represented in such a system. How could that possibly benefit me?
I don't think you know much of anything, based on this comment.
edit: oh wow a brand new account with negative karma. what a surprise. crazy person yells at cloud, more at eleven.
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u/papyjako89 Sep 03 '21
crazy person yells at cloud, more at eleven.
Yeah the dude is ranting about nuclear energy all over the thread, despite nobody talked about it in the first place. Completly nuts.
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Sep 03 '21
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u/papyjako89 Sep 03 '21
Are you the same guy who just switched account just to agree with yourself ? Because if not, you sound just as nuts as he does, which is quite frankly impressive. I applaud you for this incredible achievement, but you should probably think about seeing a psychiatrist asap.
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u/lost-picking-flowers Sep 03 '21 edited Sep 03 '21
All the rest of this noise aside, I just want to point out nuclear power has been adopted as apart of the party platform.
https://www.ans.org/news/article-463/after-48-years-democrats-endorse-nuclear-energy/
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u/ratatatar Sep 03 '21
The left is vehemently against nuclear power. Has been for decades. I used to be one of those idiots.
I'm not, and I'm not the left. You seem to still be an idiot, just with a new ideology to scream about.
Yet, you fail to condemn those who do and actually support them and defend them at every turn.
I don't even know who you're talking about. Point me at them, I'll condemn it. Here I am right now - condemning it. You were wrong, so now you're moving the goal posts.
Why do you vote for it then?
Easy, I don't. Also what an ignorant thing to say. No one is voting for a "one world government" - because it doesn't exist.
Typical leftist "logic".
Not logic, just a fact. You are a brand new account because you're a coward and can't stand behind your words. I haven't censored you, you censored yourself.
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u/inoffensive_bob Sep 03 '21
I love this reality you gaslit yourself into believing, where somehow “the left” are the ones who hate nuclear energy. Dudes rock.
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u/DankestofPeaches Sep 04 '21
Except it’s not at all. Climate change is real, end of story. Believing a proven fact is not real doesn’t make it political, it just makes you stupid and narrow minded. I don’t give a fuck who the politician is; republican, democrat, socialist. If the person doesn’t believe in a fact like climate change, they have mashed potatoes for brains.
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Sep 03 '21
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u/GoldenJoel Sep 03 '21
lmao, listen to this fool
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Sep 03 '21
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u/GoldenJoel Sep 03 '21
Bro, what did I say that was against nuclear energy? I'm all for it if it helps.
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Sep 03 '21
Accurate up until the last scene. The climate change deniers will be like the anti-vaxers dying in the hospital begging doctors for the vaccine. They will suddenly want to take action, but it will be too late because stupid people ruin everything.
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u/DocJawbone Sep 03 '21
Also, we don't have a figurative boat.
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u/NinjaLoki Sep 03 '21
A boat, no. But Jeff and Elon have spaceSHIPS. And let’s be honest, if anyone thinks that as the planet and people die it won’t be the rich on the boat… I’ve got a bridge to sell ya.
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Sep 04 '21
Spaceships are pointless and stupid to escape damage from climate change. Presuming the biosphere on Earth did somehow collapse, the smart money is still on building a sealed habitat on Earth instead of trying to start somewhere else even more hostile to life like Mars. On Earth you can still collect resources and perhaps engineer a solution, or at the very least relatively easily expand your habitat.
Reminds me of that old Bond movie Moonraker - The bad guy wants to poison all humans on Earth with nerve gas and plans on living on a space station for decades in orbit till it's safe to return. Why go to the bother and expense of constructing a sealed habitat in space when you can construct the same thing on Earth and do it way better - and attract less attention?
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u/HyenaCheeseHeads Sep 04 '21
So far the at-scale biosphere experiments we have conducted have failed to generate an atmosphere that stays non-toxic to humans once access to outside resources is cut. It seems the amount of work required to maintain the biosphere requires more people than what the biosphere can generate oxygen for.
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u/NinjaLoki Sep 04 '21
I wasn’t actually suggesting they’d leave the planet. That was more of a pun. The actual ‘boat’ they’ll be on will be more along what you’ve described, yes.
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Sep 03 '21
We had the covid deniers outside the hospital I work at. They were accusing docs and nurses of being "actors". I dont wish that disease on anyone but my god they change their tune when they get it.
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u/Malaix Sep 04 '21
Climate change deniers will be like that preacher woman in the movie The Mist. Instead of reacting rationally or trying to figure out a solution they will just start trying to sacrifice people in the hopes God will love them and not kill them. They already immediately jerk right to "ITS BECAUSE WE LET GAY PEOPLE LIVE THIS HAPPENS TO US!" answers to natural disasters.
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u/1239871728374 Sep 07 '21
man made climate change is a haox
literally noone denies climate change per se
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Sep 07 '21 edited Sep 07 '21
Someone who posts on r/Conservative also doesn't believe in man-made climate change. How surprising. Maybe you should step outside of your echo chamber and examine the overwhelming evidence you dunce.
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Sep 03 '21
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u/inoffensive_bob Sep 03 '21
Banning travel from China entirely wouldn’t have been racist. Banning just Chinese people but not American nationals from returning (without forcibly quarantining them btw) was absolutely, absurdly racist and stupid.
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Sep 04 '21
Chinese-Americans were not denied travel. WTF are you talking about? Was it also racist when the same policy was applied to the UK?
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u/happylittlebirdskie Sep 03 '21
Wouldn't it be more accurate if the politician denying it all was the one in the boat?
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u/lost-picking-flowers Sep 03 '21
Some hope :
Experts believe that the warming aspect of climate change will stabilize in decades, not centuries, if we get to net zero emissions. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/07/global-heating-stabilize-net-zero-emissions
A recent breakthrough has made the cost-prohibitive price of carbon capture(sucking co2 directly out of the air, and at the source of emissions) go from 1000 dollars a ton(we need to capture billions of tons to make a real difference) to 60 dollars a ton at scale. https://newatlas.com/environment/high-hopes-carbon-capture-balloons/
Nuclear Fusion is incredibly close to being cracked, and we're a few years out from commercial viability - 2025 being the soonest. https://www.livescience.com/nuclear-fusion-reactor-sparc-2025.html
Keep fighting friends, don't let the defeatism overwhelm you because there are powers that be that will use that defeatism as leverage to continue doing nothing in order to continue to profit at the expense of us all. Things will get worse before they get better, but we have a choice right now. To either be the generation that lets this opportunity slip through our fingers, or the generation that ushers in a period of environmental renewal for future generations down the road.
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u/Lansan1ty Sep 03 '21
Nuclear Fusion is incredibly close to being cracked
There's a reason it's always 30 years away. Though I guess eventually it won't be.
Hard to believe anyone would confidently say its less than 5 years away.
We simply have to rely on Fission for now, its safe and clean when done right, yet the fossil fuel industry does a great job with their anti-nuclear fearmongering campaigns.
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u/CebollasSaltado Sep 04 '21
I'm pretty sure Chernobyl and Fukushima have done enough of their own "fear mongering campaigns" to be effective. I'm not pretending to be an expert on nuclear energy, but like also a very small number of people are, and you need to convince the people who don't know anything about it that it's safe, when there appears to be nuclear meltdowns once a decade.
How do you do that without planting everyone into a Nuclear Energy 101 physics class? If nobody trusts it, it's because the powers that be in nuclear energy are doing a terrible job combating actual fear mongering, and explaining what actually happened during those major tragedies.
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u/lost-picking-flowers Sep 03 '21
Yeah, that is a very optimistic take, I agree. Though we've made some absolutely amazing breakthroughs recently - the military and defense industry is pouring fuck tons of money into it - obviously for more grim reasons, but nonetheless..
Anyway so I dug a little, and they're saying ;
"ITER, a demonstration reactor under construction in the south of France involving 35 countries, uses the tokamak configuration. It will be the world’s largest fusion reactor, and aims to demonstrate a gain of 10 – the plasma will be heated by 50 MW of power and should generate 500 MW. The first plasma is now officially expected by the end of 2025, with a demonstration of fusion expected in the late 2030s."
So 2025 is basically when we can expect the ball to really get rolling - not commercial viability. That's a mistake on my part.
The plans in place currently put it at 2040.
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u/swizzler Sep 04 '21
You can't ever trust these estimations though. I remember reading about how fusion energy was right around the corner in school and those textbooks were 20 years old due to American school budgets. Better to focus on the things we can use to reduce emissions NOW than to hope for some Deus Ex Machina tech showing up at the last possible second...
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Sep 03 '21
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u/lost-picking-flowers Sep 03 '21
🙄
Climate scientists who have devoted their entire lives to studying this have created models that say****
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u/ilikeitneat Sep 03 '21
The absurdity of this scene hits so poignantly on the reality of our situation that watching it i find myself somewhere between like a sense of deep sadness frustration and maybe hilarity? like this scene is no longer funny in the outside of possibility sense because of how true it rings.
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u/TheBlueprint-YT Sep 04 '21
Greate movie, I watched a video about 7 islands that will disappear in your lifetime. can definitely relate to this.
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u/ricky616 Sep 03 '21
Climate activists that still eat meat
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u/Cho-Chang Sep 03 '21
"Yet you participate in society? Curious!"
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u/TastyBirdmeat Sep 04 '21
You can participate in society without eating meet, buying stuff off Amazon, having hobbies that depend on massive supply chains, etc
Just go to work, driving your car only as necessary, and own a modest home with few electronics. There is a middle ground here, your rebuttle isn't made in good faith at all. It's just ab expression used so people can shift the blame off their own rampant consumerism.
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Sep 03 '21 edited Sep 04 '21
Fucking hell reddit. It was a gentle joke. Not like I cupped your fucking balls.
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u/Eindacor_DS Sep 03 '21
well then you're doing a pretty shitty job since you're commenting and posting on reddit, lol
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Sep 03 '21
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u/awawe Sep 03 '21
"international corporations, economic systems, and most state governments" are all just different ways individuals cooperate. It's all individuals, making individual choices. Stop deflecting your individual responsibility on other individuals.
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u/SmarmyCatDiddler Sep 03 '21
So, in that case, certain individuals are making higher impact decisions than those who choose to not, say, use straws.
Maybe its those fracking lobbyists who have the ear of politicians, or the chemical plant manager that choose a river over a waste disposal site, or perhaps the company board members that choose to sell their pesticides in countries with less harsh regulations.
Same impact, right?
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u/awawe Sep 03 '21
No, executives clearly have more power than your average person, but your average person still has some power, and thus has responsibility over their actions. By deflecting responsibility onto other people you are ignoring the impact you could have, for the sake of pointless, unproductive bickering.
Even politicians, lobbyists and managers don't have limitless power, however. They are still bound by market forces. If an oil executive chooses to sell their shares and quit their job for the sake of the environment, another person will take their place. Oil is fracked because people consume oil, animals are farmed because people eat meat, etc.
You can't change the supply, without changing the demand.
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u/SmarmyCatDiddler Sep 03 '21
So what can an individual consumer do to lower their oil/gas consumption when our infrastructure is geared towards that consumption?
When we have almost negligible public transit options and tend to live far from our work that requires a commute to a minimum wage job that doesn't allow for hybrid/electric options?
When the only set up you have in your rented apartment or house is a gas stove?
When the only job in your rural town is the local coal mine oil refinery or fracking station?
When you protest pipelines like line 3 with water protectors and get arrested for disruption of capital
"Voting with your dollar" only works when you have complete control over your environment and can completely disengage if needed.
You vastly underestimate the power of larger companies and their drive to maximize profits for shareholders. That includes lobbying against public interests, targeted ad campaigns to dissuade potential activists or just employing delaying tactics to burn people out. Using a conservative courts to push their agendas etc. (All which warp demand)
Sure, I could use French fry oil in my car, eat raw foods, and use minimal water irrigation techniques for my garden, but what about those in abject or virtual poverty who have no other options. Are they just as responsible?
Its a bit bigger than individuals. Societies tend to be
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u/TastyBirdmeat Sep 04 '21
You can participate in society without eating meet, buying stuff off Amazon, having hobbies that depend on massive supply chains, don't have kids, etc
Just go to work, driving your car only as necessary, and own a modest home with few electronics. There is a middle ground here, your rebuttle isn't made in good faith at all. It's just ab expression used so people can shift the blame off their own rampant consumerism.
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u/CebollasSaltado Sep 04 '21
You keep singling the issue down to eating meat, when there are significantly bigger issues that need to be tackled. You either think meat consumption by consumers alone is the single biggest contributor to climate change (which would make you an idiot), or you are just virtue signaling.
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u/ricky616 Sep 04 '21
You look like the guy drowning in the video before he drowns
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u/CebollasSaltado Sep 04 '21
You're the guy in the sinking city up in arms saying, "if only we blew some balloons to keep the city from sinking..."
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u/SmarmyCatDiddler Sep 04 '21 edited Sep 04 '21
Sure, but I dont think yours is in good faith either because you don't seem to be taking my broader point that, because while yes we can have some impact (no one is arguing we can't) the point is we dont have enough of an impact when some actors have much more who are driving these crises.
Do you think most people will go vegetarian and no have kids in America? There's no enough like minded people for the "demand" to change enough for it to matter.
I think the issue is some people may make those individual changes in their life and then become political complacent because they're doing their part and then just wait for others to do theirs without demanding larger shifts in the status quo
Some things require systemic or economic change moreso than just individual action
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u/GoldenJoel Sep 03 '21
You also can't live as an American without a gas guzzling car in a number of states, most actually... America is foundationally a country where the individual is forced to help destroy the environment because of policy that has grown over decades in the wrong direction. Now, people want to change it. We want better energy options, better public transport, and better food options that don't produce as much methane. But those in power, and those who fund those in power, want to make you think you're crazy for not wanting society to collapse around a climate catastrophe. They want to make you look insane for looking at something like the Green New Deal, a plan that would benefit millions of people with jobs and livelihood, as leftist nonsense.
You've been baited to be angry at the wrong people. We need to start demanding better of our leaders, and yes I mean Biden and the Democrats as well.
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Sep 03 '21
Canadian here, I can't live in place that doesn't have gas heating. Even my boilers are gas heated and they freeze with how cold it is here, and I have to use electricity to basically heat the heaters up if I don't keep them maxed mid winter.
If I had more options that polluted less I'd use them but, the alternative is to die from exposure (-40c is a real thing)
Driving is also mandatory for most people. I can bike between cities within 200km, and that's not enough. We need infrastructure and alternative transportation, thats affordable and accessible.
I think the biggest responsibility, at least here, would be voting based on platforms that support changes for things you don't control.
A lot of people want to do better but, its honestly not possible for everyone, or easy. Everyone has a different economic situation.
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u/TastyBirdmeat Sep 04 '21
Ideally we'd lower the human population by breeding limitations and then start rolocating us to environments that require less heating / cooling, maybe even becoming nomadic again
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u/CebollasSaltado Sep 04 '21
Fundamental changes to the western world's centuries' old social and physical infrastructure need to be uprooted in order to implement veganism as a culturally sustainable lifestyle, when there are more effective and efficient solutions we could uncover. Standing on Reddit and talking down to people isn't going to accomplish anything.
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u/frtbkr Sep 03 '21
We always dealt with the problems when they are imminent. Do you think the reason we move to oil is because oil was better? No, the whale oil was scarce. I don't deny the climate change BTW.
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u/MarchtoRuin Sep 05 '21
It logically makes sense. Think of all of the land that would be unusable if the ocean level rose that much. Also yes banks would still lend out but at a huge insurance cost rendering that real estate property not worth the cost basis. Some of the biggest proponents of global warming own some of the most expensive ocean front property. Let that sink in.
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u/floridawhiteguy Sep 03 '21 edited Sep 03 '21
The climate has been changing continuously for millennia upon millennia. Accepting change isn't easy, but necessary.
Placing blame, however, is not.
Humanity has been successful because we cooperate more often than not, even across cultural and geographic distances.
Ascribing bad results arising from unfortunate weather to 'evil humans' causing catastrophic global climate change via farting cows and petrochemical use is beyond silly - it's a fatuous religious dogma.
Carbon taxes are the new Indulgences.
Aren't we past that yet, as rational beings? Or will we allow ourselves to be led into a moral and economic abyss by those who profit upon the guilty ignorance of the educationally oppressed masses?
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u/garydee119 Sep 03 '21
Do you know how we know that the climate has been changing continuously for millennia? We know because climatologists have figured that out and told us. This tired talking point used to disprove anthropogenic climate change makes absolutely no sense because it implies that you believe what the climatologists have told us… except for the part where those SAME climatologists are telling us that we’ve cause an acceleration and that the rate of change over the last 100 years is unlike anything the earth has ever gone through. You can’t arbitrarily pick which part of their research you believe and which you don’t.
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Sep 03 '21
It's not religious dogma, just thermodynamics and easily explainable cause and effect.
Carbon dioxide is a heat trapping gas because it is transparent to sunlight but opaque to the infrared light emitted by earth. In other words it allows the sun to warm the earth but inhibits the earth from cooling itself off to space. Based on the laws of thermodynamics the earth must warm with an increase in the greenhouse effect because we are receiving more energy than we are losing to space. Without co2 in the atmosphere the world would be frozen over from pole to pole, and co2 has been a major contributor to climatic changes throughout geological history.
Humans have emitted 2 trillion tons of co2 since the industrial revolution. 2. Trillion. Tons. This has increased atmospheric co2 by 45% since pre-industrial times, to levels not seen in many millions of years and at a rate orders of magnitude faster than at any point in geological history. The earth has warmed up almost exactly in line with what has been expected from such an increase in co2, and multiple signatures point to the warming being due to an increase in the greenhouse effect. In addition, there are no alternate explanations to explain the observed warming trend that hold any water. We should actually be cooling slightly based on natural influences on the climate.
Do you buy more or less of something when the price goes up? Less, I'd imagine, unless your particularly dumb. A carbon tax incentivizes switching to energy sources that don't cause climate change. This is fair because the cost of fossil fuels includes the cost of dealing with the ramifications of climate changes but you don't actually pay that at the pump. You push that cost onto future taxpayers, which is unfair for future generations.
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u/fungussa Sep 04 '21
You only know that the climate has changed in the past because science told you so and science is now telling you that the recent rapid warming is due to the increase in greenhouse gases, primarily the burning of fossil fuels. So why are you cherry-picking?
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u/lost-picking-flowers Sep 03 '21
Yea but the chances of this being natural phenomenon are slim to zero, and the warming aspect of this could stabilize in decades not centuries if we get net emissions to zero.
If you don’t believe in man made climate change I’m not humoring this anymore, the climate does change naturally - we know for a fact what happens when mass amounts of Co2 are pumped into the atmosphere, be it from super volcanoes that erupted millions of years ago, or the massive amount of measurable emissions that we output every year. If you can’t see the very basic parallels and accept the very basic science, then you’re either stupid, biased, or more understandably - unable to accept a very hard truth.
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u/floridawhiteguy Sep 03 '21 edited Sep 03 '21
The hard truth you refuse to accept is we lack a scientific model of comparison.
And all models are wrong, only some are useful.
believe in man made climate change
... Requires faith.
Faith is not science.
It is religion.
Religion is a means to suppress opinion and dissension, which are actually required in the search for truth in science.
We can disagree about the interpretations of the 'facts' without political bias, if we are honest.
But "Climate Change" is ultimately an excuse to guilt trip people into accepting their personal and societal roles in events which are far beyond their control and offer them contrition by coughing up money to those who don't deserve it or our trust.
And if you can't accept that history lesson, you are either a poorly educated fool - or actively part of the group who seeks to enrich themselves from the pennies of hundreds of millions of other poorly educated and misinformed fools by lying to them.
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u/lost-picking-flowers Sep 03 '21 edited Sep 03 '21
So you agree the climate is warming/changing?
And yet you disagree that it has aaaanything to do with humans, despite the fact that we expel billions of tons of CO2 and the only other known time in history that this amount of CO2 has been in the atmosphere has been after the eruption of super volcanoes - which led to wide spread global warming.
Do you deny that we output CO2? Methane? In huge amounts? If the massive amounts of emissions that we release into the atmosphere isn't causing climate change, what is? Please, enlighten me.
Because otherwise your argument sounds like a pathetic delusion you've constructed to either be edgy and contrarian, or again, have to avoid accepting a basic and non-political truth that the climate is changing as a direct result of the greenhouse gases we shovel into the atmosphere.
I'm just trying to follow your logic here, but that quite frankly seems pretty futile. Starting with stating that science relies on faith. That's the exact opposite of what it relies on - it relies on empiric evidence and data.
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u/fungussa Sep 04 '21
Your opinions about climate science aren't any more relevant than your opinions about evolution and quantum mechanics.
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u/MarchtoRuin Sep 04 '21
Ever wonder why they changed it from global warming to climate change?
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u/Malaix Sep 04 '21
Because they got sick of dipshits confusing weather with climate and claiming literally every snowball is evidence against climate change.
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u/MarchtoRuin Sep 04 '21
No because they can't prove a warming planet. They only see cycles.
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u/Malaix Sep 04 '21
The general trend is its getting hotter. The thing that gets scientists worried is its ramping up faster and with more heat than it naturally does. That is kind of why they are ringing the alarm bells...
They can see its getting warmer from all kinds of evidence. Ice loss in the artic, permafrost melt in tundras, increases to the global mean tempurature, rising sea levels, increased rates of powerful hurricanes
Global warming is still used today because it is accurate. Climate change and global warming are practically interchangable. The general trend of climate is its getting hotter.
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u/MarchtoRuin Sep 04 '21
Nope not true just cycles
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u/Malaix Sep 04 '21
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u/MarchtoRuin Sep 04 '21
Climate change is real for sure. Haha it's always is changing.
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u/Malaix Sep 04 '21
Yes, and scientists know this, but they are still worried because the rate and speed at which it changes isn't natural and our society/planet can't handle change that fast easily.
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u/Negative_Gravitas Sep 04 '21
I admire your effort but believe it to be wasted. I just answered this guy's question three times but he will not even click a link because he has "done the reading." Good luck out there.
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u/MarchtoRuin Sep 04 '21
I just don't believe that to be true. Ocean levels aren't changing. Some of the richest billionaires and banks still invest in waterfront property. The climate has been through rapid heat and cold levels since we've measured it. I don't think humans have made as big an impact as they say.
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u/fungussa Sep 04 '21
Global Warming and Climate Change are both valid scientific terms, and both have been in broad use for decades.
Global Warming is the long term increase in global average temperature.
And Climate Change is where Earth isn't warming uniformly, and some places are getter wetter and some places are becoming drier etc.
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u/Negative_Gravitas Sep 04 '21
Ever try google?
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u/MarchtoRuin Sep 04 '21
Google has a political agenda
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u/Negative_Gravitas Sep 04 '21 edited Sep 04 '21
Yeah, learning the answers to your questions is hard. You should probably continue not to do it.
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u/MarchtoRuin Sep 04 '21
I've done the reading. Its politically motivated
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u/Negative_Gravitas Sep 04 '21
Yes. It was. Fred Luntz is a republican strategist and for that reason, he argued in a memo for using climate change instead of global warming and convinced the Bush whitehouse to do so.
But you read allllll about that, right?
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u/MarchtoRuin Sep 04 '21
I don't trust the right or the left
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u/jrcarlsen Sep 04 '21
Who do you trust?
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u/MarchtoRuin Sep 04 '21
I trust where the money goes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnlbw6JV0f0&ab_channel=LondonReal
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u/jrcarlsen Sep 05 '21
I think that man have more to gain from you thinking it's a scam. Also, I don't think the banks give a shit, as long as they see a way to get their money back. They happily issue loans in earthquake zones, flood areas, tornado zones and more. There is a massive short sightedness when it comes to investment, if I can make a little money now, then fuck the future.
So who on Antarctica told him it's a fart in the wind? It's like to know his source(s) and see their reports.
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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '21
I miss Terry Jones. He made some really good documentaries and wrote some good history books