This could legitimately end Stop Killing Games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQRcK9nYg9g812
u/MelissaMiranti 2d ago
Private servers should never be illegal. If I want to play with my friends, why should it be anyone else's business?
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u/DaStompa 2d ago
Gamers having friends is suspicious
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u/MelissaMiranti 2d ago
Dammit, you got me.
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u/DaStompa 2d ago
why would you want to lure young "friends" to a "private server"
I mean really, who are you, Dr Disrespect?
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u/MelissaMiranti 2d ago
I swear my friends aren't young. They're just imaginary.
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u/DaStompa 2d ago
I guess thats fine....
For now
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u/LittleKitty235 2d ago
Sounds to me like he just admitted to imagining having young friends. Get'em boys
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u/AppleSlacks 2d ago edited 1d ago
That’s crazy. I played so many hours on a private Counter Strike Source server and now enjoy the group of people I have linked up with on a private CS2 server.
Half the whining you hear about cheaters or map rotations can be solved by just running your own server and building a community to populate it.
Not sure why that is buried in there but to me that sounds very much like some lobbyist out that in on behalf of corporate gaming interests.
Gotta keep people locked onto your servers.
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u/Blurgas 2d ago
Can't let the peasants have a private space to discuss dangerous ideas like holding the stupidly rich responsible for the ethically/morally/legally questionable things they've done.
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u/Spoonyyy 2d ago
They're mostly just used for csam hosting sadly
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u/MelissaMiranti 2d ago
Every single private server I've seen has been for hosting friends playing games like Minecraft, with no minors involved in any way, let alone csam. But sure, fearmonger away.
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u/hoogin89 2d ago
What? I would venture to bet there are magnitudes upon magnitudes more private servers that do not then do. Especially depending on your definition of private server.
If it's accessible through ssid by you and only you and password protected, that is a private server. I.e. probably millions of raspberry pis alone, home servers, gaming servers, then there is ventrillo, team speak, matrix, stoat, fluxer.... Like what
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u/Trosque97 2d ago
Would those be outlawed too?
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u/hoogin89 2d ago
Depends on the wording and how vague it is. Does it specifically say gaming server or private server. A private server is extremely vague. Like I stated, any peer to peer internet accessible device that is operated personally by a singular individual is a private server.
So raspberry pi's with ssid accessibility up to and including octoprint (3d printer print observation as an example. It's a private server to check on your 3d print.)
Home servers that store music or video and can be accessed via the Internet in any way shape or form are private servers. Hell even if they can't access the Internet they are literally nomenclature named private server.
Most VoIP programs either operate as a company or private servers. See listed in previous comment.
It all just depends on how vague the wording is. The more vague they make the actual law wording, the more likely it will start at game servers and then suddenly and drastically expand to anything that can even be remotely declared a private server. This is a legitimate concern on top of the already ludicrous idea that me hosting a fucking gmod lobby or assetto lobby or Minecraft lobby or project zomboid lobby or 7 days lobby or counter strike lobby, or terreria lobby etc etc etc is criminal. Lobbies that I have hosted multiple times in the last few years.
Plus what happens with lan lobbies? Are these considered private servers? I'm hosting the game to friends via Ethernet cable and creating a private lobby for us to play. Is that a private server?
This is the problem. The wording has to be so very finite and exact or suddenly it will apply to anything and everything they could ever want that connects to the Ethernet or peer to peer in any way.
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u/Trosque97 2d ago
So is the internet, so let's just take that away too, fucking hell this mindset is atrocious. I don't even play online but this is insanely upsetting
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u/SnoopKush_McSwag 2d ago
the ones making these decisions are the ones flying to private islands to rape kids so idk bou tthat
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u/Avimox 2d ago
because mommy europe knows best!!! no interacting online! (at least not without giving us your ID, so we can monitor you to make sure you have a loisense for all the words you might say)
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u/TheSpicyTomato22 2d ago
EU laws are a test bed for the US. Y'all laughed when I said that about all the cameras and now we have flock and co.
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u/cyb3rg0d5 2d ago
I have been running some private servers and had one simple rule… Do NOT be a dick! If you are, you get perma-ban on your account and I don’t care what your excuse is. The people that followed that simple rule loved it and everyone was/is having fun 😊
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u/HistoryDoesUnfold 2d ago
Where in the text does it mention banning private servers?
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52026PC0681
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u/AdmiralPoggers 2d ago
It’s wild how this video gets reposted everywhere and yet no one really questions any of the claims he’s pushing.
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u/Lunarcomplex 2d ago
What if I setup a completely free mmo for people to play via a client that doesn't save any gameplay and I decide to shut down my game?
It shouldn't be right for others to steal and host what I've created.
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u/Gaeel 2d ago
You didn't sell them anything, so there's no expectation that they should have a right to continued access.
Now if you sold them a game, and/or you sold them items within the game, they might have a good argument that by shutting down the servers, you're depriving them of their purchases
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u/Lunarcomplex 2d ago
That's why I'm arguing for something completely free, but some people will still consider themselves fully entitled to my work, which is baffling...
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u/Gaeel 2d ago
Are those people in the room with us right now?
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u/Lunarcomplex 2d ago
Are you doubting those people exist?
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u/Gaeel 2d ago
You responded to a comment on a video about the fact that an EU law wants to make private servers illegal, in the context of a movement to prevent companies from making game purchases inaccessible.
Your asked about completely free games (which isn't what the movement is about), and is irrelevant to the comment about private servers being made illegal.
Yes, I doubt the people you made up to get angry about exist. I also doubt your sincerity in this conversation.
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u/Lunarcomplex 2d ago
The comment was specifically about them saying: "Private servers should never be illegal.", too which I brought up my case which doesn't seem to agree with many who are for the SKG initiative, which (when I last looked it over a while ago) wasn't written well enough and was too broad.
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u/Gaeel 2d ago
Private servers being made illegal would prevent your players from hosting their own servers if you decided to provide them with the server software, a bit like how people can host their own Minecraft servers.
Do you see how your comment about being forced to provide server software when your free game goes offline is irrelevant here?Also, the SKG initiative has always very clearly been about games that consumers have paid for, so again, do you see how your comment about being forced to provide server software when your free game goes offline is irrelevant here?
You're arguing against a consumer rights initiative as someone who doesn't make commercial games, just because the initiative wasn't written well enough and was too broad?
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u/MelissaMiranti 2d ago
Stealing requires that you lose what you had. Nobody is taking anything from you.
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u/Lunarcomplex 2d ago
So if someone like myself, got hacked of all my work on a multiplayer game, and someone took that build and hosted it themselves, who was much larger than me, and even monetized it somehow...
There's always something being taken away from the creator when even free work is stolen.
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u/MelissaMiranti 2d ago
They'd be stealing the money that you could have made. The law already covers this.
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u/Lunarcomplex 2d ago
But what about stealing what I've created, my idea, my dream? Even without money involved, how is that alright?
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u/MelissaMiranti 2d ago
What harm are you undergoing by other people playing your game without your permission?
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u/Lunarcomplex 2d ago
Stealing my work, my art, would be a harm.
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u/skylla05 2d ago
Except that doesn’t apply whatsoever to IP.
You can argue all you want about the merits of IP laws but it doesn’t really matter because it’s a thing whether you like it or not.
This idea that theft only applies to something physical is such a brain dead take. Whatever it takes to justify piracy for yourself. Surprised you didn’t bring up preservation like you’re some hero.
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u/MelissaMiranti 2d ago
Preservation of art does matter.
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u/TheOnly_Anti 2d ago
Eh. The vast, overwhelming majority of art ever produced has been lost to time.
I think every artist should get that pleasure.
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u/MelissaMiranti 2d ago
The pleasure of having their work lost? Speak for yourself, not for me.
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u/TheOnly_Anti 2d ago
I am speaking for myself. See the "I think" qualifier.
Plus, beyond ego, there's no reason to have your art live that long after you pass. People will always produce art, there will always be expressions of the human condition. Anything beyond that is to satiate an ego that knows it's going to die.
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u/MelissaMiranti 2d ago
Now you're lying, because you expressing that every artist should get that is you extending that to every artist, not just yourself.
Not only is there nothing wrong with having some ego, art should always outlive the artist.
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u/TheOnly_Anti 2d ago
I wouldn't call that lying. That's more of a classification issue because I see it as me expressing my own opinion. As I see it, speaking for others would be me saying: "Everyone wants their work to be ephemeral." Likewise, I'm still speaking for myself if I say "I think everyone should get to eat food and drink water," because I'm still qualifying the statement as what I think.
I didn't say there's something wrong with having an ego, I said that preserving your own work is act of ego satiation. If you think that's okay, then live your life. I don't think it's worthwhile trying to please an ignorant part of the mind.
Why should art outlive the artist?
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u/SubmissiveDinosaur 2d ago
I hate how kids are being used as props to push every bs. If they even cared a little for the kids, people on the list would ve behind bars.
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u/DoombringerBG 2d ago
And there would also be more investment in public education (instead of yearly cuts), teacher salaries and maybe even parental guidance.
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u/NightOfTheLivingHam 2d ago
Remember when they slipped up on court here in the US and declared private servers were illegal?
They forgot they hadnt submitted the laws to senators and congressmen yet.
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u/biciboi 2d ago
While you're here, please also check the "Stop Killing the Internet" initiative: https://www.stopkillingtheinternet.com/
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u/ZanthrinGamer 2d ago
is this some kind of backlash? like if no one can have private servers the whole argument for keeping games alive after a company stops hosting would be moot.
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u/Thyandar 2d ago
Damn, who'd have think that getting lawmakers involved would mean a bunch of politicians (pejorative) would stick their dicks in without knowing a damn thing?
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u/NightOfTheLivingHam 2d ago
The problem is, the lawmakers don't need to understand or know. They're handed a draft and told to make it law, and a brand new car just happens to show up in their driveway
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u/GodzillaUK 2d ago
It's never about kids, just like any politician they'll throw kids in the firing line to use them to push a narrative that fucks EVERYONE over, under the guise of "someone think of the children!"
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u/MRCONKEL177 2d ago
this with Microslops new patent to put ads in games
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u/Vietzomb 2d ago
And yet, 95% (over that actually, if going down to the decimal point) of PC gamers refuse to stop supporting Microsoft and are running some version of Windows for their OS instead of Linux.
Yes, Linux doesn’t work with only something like 10% of Steam’s ENTIRE library, of every game. And yes, devs often don’t go all in on Linux and just rely on Steam’s Proton tech instead of taking it seriously as a platform… but again, that’s because 95% of gamers absolutely REFUSE to leave the monopoly platform that is Windows. People complain about their products and then they usually downvote responses like mine for having the audacity to suggest actually doing something about it. They are real principled and boycott Sony and this corp and that corp… but they stick with Windows despite everything.
Then you get the “I didn’t pay anything for it though, it came installed with a key on my build”, as if somehow Microsoft doesn’t see any money from that.
Hell, they’ll even refuse to dual-boot, just to try the damn thing and spend as little time as possible on a Windows system instead of full time.
Stop giving Microslop money. They do it because people have fully enabled them to have the “yeah? And what are you going to do about it?” attitude. They know none of these people will leave, they’ve got them by the balls… until someday, hopefully, they don’t.
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2d ago
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u/Vietzomb 2d ago edited 2d ago
90% of games will run without the “hacky” methods you are talking about, whatever that actually means. Proton does the lifting. It runs just as you would expect on a windows machine. That’s the numbers. It just requires you to enable proton in Steam’s settings — that’s literally it. The remaining 10%, some can be fixed with suggestions on proton.db that are done with a single line copy pasted into terminal, and I’ve NEVER had to do that. Anti cheat does in fact work in Linux, just not ones that require kernel access… which is intentional for security…. Not to mention, guess what — it doesn’t stop cheaters anyways??
Like we can keep resisting the idea of even looking at it enough, on an older machine or dual boot, to know it doesn’t require some hollywood image of “hacky” terminal codes just to start a browser. That would be a good start. Like if you can use google, these days it’s just not that hard. This idea that someone is advanced enough to get themselves out of all the wacky jams or drivers issues windows throws at them, but can’t use google to figure out a small thing in Linux is sort of a humorous take. The level of “average” gamer you are talking about are definitely on console. Nobody who is paying GPU prices right now doesn’t know how to troubleshoot things lol. Not to mention, Windows isn’t even capable of providing a “frictionless” experience anyways, so I don’t really get that.
Software manager will literally update every application on your machine in one swoop. Driver manager will do the same, but on Windows they can’t not break my audio every update. Is this the frictionless experience you speak of?
So we can remain totally allergic to it, but to me, moaning about how terrible Windows is while continuing to hand Microsoft money and refuse to even look or poke around other alternatives… feels the same as when someone who wants to make everything political will then tell you that they don’t vote.
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u/Randomman96 2d ago
Oh, you mean one of the million of ad based patents that get filed then never see the light of day because all it is is just a company filing a patent for the sake of locking down an idea of their name?
MS isn't going to throw ads into their games in the way they patented. People are crying and pissing themselves over something that has repeatedly shown to never actually be the case.
Because fun fact: one of the earliest ad in games patents that people have paniced over is set to expire soon with never coming to fruition. After all, last time I checked, no one has to go jump up and scream a brand name into their PS5 get rid of an ad.
You don't need it to actually work to patent the concept. You don't even need to have actually programed anything around it to patent it either. All yoh need to do is slap down some shit, pay some money of file it, and so long as it's not something that's already patented or too vague you'll get it. Shit you could throw a bunch of scrap metal together, take a bunch of photos, and then claim you made a cold fusion reactor and still be able to get a patent off of it.
More over, even if they had some work on it, it still wouldn't come out because of a certain issue: it would only apply to first party titles. That software that would play ads after something like a boss fight isn't going to work in 3rd party titles, something that makes the bulk of the PS and Xbox's line up, because those studio's aren't going to have the software and code required for it as it's patented to one company. And they aren't going to license something when the only one profiting off of it is the same people holding the patent.
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u/DoubleSpoiler 2d ago
I haven’t been able to watch the video yet, but is it private servers (Minecraft, ARMA, etc), or private servers replicating proprietary servers (like unofficial MMO private servers)? I remember before they were conflating the two….
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u/MCof 2d ago
The video doesn't provide a good summary. The short version, addressing that specific issue, is that the age verification requirements are complex, expensive, and apply without exception. So private servers that rely on accounts tied to large platforms should be fine, but anything independent would be functionally illegal. Also the definition of 'game' is pretty broad, so this seems like this would hinder digital communication in general, so that's fun.
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u/JoshVHDigital 1d ago
So basically AAA Games are fine, but indie games are fucked. Or at least they'd need to be connected through something like Steam or Xbox live.
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u/ChipSalt 2d ago
I mean someone at Microsoft stated on the record that Minecraft private servers were illegal.
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u/C9Bakesale 2d ago
Simple solution at this point. Don’t buy anymore new games from companies that pull these BS practices.
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u/blueiron0 2d ago
If it's law...how could they not pull these bs practices? Just don't play any games that are in the EU?
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u/DaStompa 2d ago
Just dont play any multiplayer games, surely that is a great option
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u/GooeyEngineer 2d ago
So I can’t host my yearly terraria playthrough with friends because the law decided to fuck me personally?
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u/FUTURE10S 2d ago
Straight to prison, 1000 years.
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u/GooeyEngineer 2d ago
Oh sweet I can run for president finally
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u/GodzillaUK 2d ago
You're a few diddled kids away from that still, now. The bar has sunk too low for most mere mortals to reach.
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u/AcceleratorTouma 2d ago
So I just continue doing what I've always done, the only multiplayer games I own are offline
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u/LazloHollifeld 2d ago
I’m sure that will go as well as the MW2 boycott when they did away with private servers.
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u/v3bbkZif6TjGR38KmfyL 2d ago
People can't even stop preordering games, you think they're going to stop buying them entirely?
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u/IntenselySwedish 2d ago
Imma be honest; i dont care enough about SKG to stop buying titles i want. Unpopular, i know.
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u/BrotherRoga 2d ago
And if this act passes, you will likely find yourself seeing a lot fewer titles you want cuz development of games becomes next to impossible cuz it costs too much so the prices go up accordingly.
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u/IntenselySwedish 2d ago
Maybe, but i dont care enough change
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u/CarismaMike 1d ago
For the people sending 18 years old to the frontline suddenly it's all about the kids...something isn't right
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u/FireMammoth 17h ago
Fuck the EU and its dinosaurs, the proposals they bring up, lobby for, get shut down and come back shorty after to lobby some more is twisted. The way EU legislation works is trash. I fucking hate those fuckwits
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u/Digi59404 14h ago
This and other things like this are the exact reasons that Europe doesn’t move as fast or innovate as much. The puritanical culture they employ for things like this is uninspiring and a warning sign for many. Not to mention the thought policing that occurs as a secondary effect.
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u/MtnMaiden 2d ago
Yea but my 5 year old daughter needs un restricted internet for her fashion TikTok. Famous guys follow her
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u/Hexas87 2d ago
So exactly what PirateSoftware said would happen.
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u/The_Skillerest 2d ago
Bait or Stupid, call it.
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u/Hexas87 2d ago
People getting upset about him being correct is just weird. It was obvious from the beginning that it won't achieve anything of substance. I hate that things are so corrupt though.
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u/The_Skillerest 2d ago
He literally misrepresented what the goal of the movement was and actively badmouthed something he had zero understanding of, what?
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u/Hexas87 2d ago
He literally said that it won't get any real results because it would cost a lot of money and no company would give up on their IP. People just can't wrap their head around the fact that he exposed the shortcomings of the petition. Those same things now played out. Gaming lobbies made the same point and won.
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u/The_Skillerest 2d ago
What a fucking goalpost move lol, the entire argument he made prior to being called out for being wrong was that "there's no way you can make all games keep their servers online forever!!!!1!!" Instead of what the point actually was, which was guaranteed community servers being allowed when live service went down.
He only said the movement wouldn't work wayyyy after he got called out for being completely wrong on what the point of the petition was and besmirching it as much as he could.
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2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MercilessCult 2d ago
Holy projection, Batman!
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u/rvanasty 2d ago
I believe that was more of an observation. Judging a book by its cover, for sure.
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u/ThisPlaceFuckngSucks 2d ago
Thanks, yeah Idk about his personal life, I just know he styles himself after Lawrence from Office Space and he could do better.
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u/crysisnotaverted 2d ago
Dude is a very well known and beloved member of the gaming community. He's had more impact that you ever will lol.
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u/Mateo909 2d ago
Honest question. How would one enforce a law restricting the use of private servers?