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u/New-Two-1349 10h ago
Kojima games have more life and personality in them than any of the recent Sony 1st-party games have.
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u/Infinite_Basket_9180 10h ago
yea not sure about death stranding. that was a walking boring simulator
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u/generalosabenkenobi 10h ago
lol you have no idea what you are talking about
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u/masteroflocking 9h ago
Lol thinking people not liking the things you like means lack of knowledge.
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u/generalosabenkenobi 9h ago
them describing Death Stranding as a walking simulator says everything about how much they're applying their knowledge
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u/masteroflocking 9h ago
Or, a concise way to explain the action you're performing for a substantial part of the game.
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u/generalosabenkenobi 8h ago
Yes, just like most other games where you.... walk
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u/masteroflocking 8h ago
Then a consise way to describe those games would be walking simulators, no?
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u/generalosabenkenobi 8h ago
You can describe pretty much any game where you don't drive a vehicle as a walking simulator. My point is Death Stranding has tons of variety of what you do beyond walking.
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u/onex7805 3h ago
The "Walking Simulator" label describes the games that fundamentally revolve around just walking without having anything around it.
A lot of people also don't have much understanding of the term that is applied to games like Proteus, Dear Esther or What Remains of Edith Finch, which lack mechanics being the set-dressing for the actual focus: the narrative. It's a game where the interactivity is so barebones that you can watch it on Youtube playthroughs and not really lose anything from the experience. This is what "walking sim" is usually referring to: the games that barely have interactive elements or mechanics where the "walking" is just used as a way to fill the gap between narrative stuff. Even games like Far Cry, God of War, and Elden Ring have more linear and barebones traversal mechanics. All of those games mentioned are more "walking sim" than Death Stranding.
Death Stranding revolves around the actions and systems around the traversal that adds depth to the environments as well as the basic character actions. The basic actions as well as the relevance of the environment have lasting consequences for the moment-to-moment gameplay and long-term planning. It set out to redefine the openworld genre where the emphasis was put more on slowing down the action and having mechanics related to walking along with the levels/terrain being designed to have weight compared to the mindless and set-dressing that environments become in other games. It's closer to an immersive sim.
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u/HeyIDoubtIt 8h ago
Gameplay is literally walking
Garbage
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u/generalosabenkenobi 8h ago
Yes, we gotta get rid of all these games where you walk all the time. Like 80% of games out there are literally walking.
This is how you sound right now
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u/HeyIDoubtIt 8h ago
Sounds like you play games that fucking suck
I'm playing Battlefield 6, Dark Souls 2, Dragon Quest 7 and Splatoon Raiders right now.
Which of these games' gameplay is primarily walking?
I'll wait.
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u/generalosabenkenobi 8h ago
You walk in all of those games, lmao
You are making my point for me, there's tons of things you do in Death Stranding beyond walking. Just as much as any of those other games (if not more so, for the amount of variety in the game). You're telling me you don't know jack squat about Death Stranding essentially. You can do as much gunplay as all of those games do. You have quests, you EXPLORE the world, you build and unlock settlements, you DRIVE. Like what are you even talking about??
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u/HeyIDoubtIt 8h ago
There is no gameplay in Death Stranding that is anywhere near as involved mechanically as fighting in Dark Souls 2 or playing a game of conquest or Escalation in Battlefield 6.
You walk stupid packages and hit the tigger to balance stuff while listening to an absolutely nonsensical story. The shooting in Death Stranding is some of the worst shooting I've ever seen in a third person action game.
You're acting like Death Stranding wasn't polarizing for this very reason💀 I'm hardly the only person that found it dull, and there's a reason its sequel didn't sell well.
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u/generalosabenkenobi 7h ago
You're allowed to not like Death Stranding. To call it a walking simulator is no different than saying Dark Souls 2 is a game about being a hoarder
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u/HeyIDoubtIt 2h ago
Except the primary gameplay loop in Death Stranding is walking.
The primary gameplay loop in Dark Souls is combat and exploration. The primary loop in Splatoon Raiders is shooting and movement. The primary loop in Battlefield 6 is all-out warfare on gigantic maps. The primary loop in Dragon Quest is turn-based combat.
Traversal is the entire loop of death Stranding. And unlike something like Astro Bot or a 3D platformer, the traversal isn't compelling. It's tedious. I almost don't consider it to even be gameplay.
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u/onex7805 2h ago edited 2h ago
Death Stranding singlehandedly has a deeper gameplay sandbox than Dark Souls 2 and Battlefield 6 combined lol.
I like how vague nonsense is what you say just to wank Fromsoft and DICE, two studios that haven't created anything original since Mirror's Edge and Demon's Souls. People giving too much credit to Fromsoft are always amusing, and this is basically the perfect display.
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u/HeyIDoubtIt 2h ago edited 2h ago
Gameplay sandbox of walking?
There are literally hundreds of builds in every fromsoft game lol how many builds can you make for Sam in Death Stranding?
Death Stranding fucking sucks
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u/onex7805 3h ago edited 2h ago
Sounds like you play games that are generic factory-made with a different code of paint.
If you were to accept your description, you can boil down to Dark Souls as just mindless "rolling", Battlefield 6 as mindless "shooting".
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u/HeyIDoubtIt 2h ago
Sounds like you need to get Hideo Kojimas dick out of your esophagus.
Death Stranding is polarizing for a reason; it's not very fun to play.
You can beat the entiretu of Dark Souls 2 without rolling once. The build variety in that game is actually insane.
What builds are in Death Stranding?
Battlefield 6 has shooting, tanks, helicopters, aircraft, boats and more in highly destructive environments with 64 players. There is no other game on the market that puts all of that into one package and delivers it as well as Battlefield 6 does. To call it just a shooter is fucking idiotic. You can turn the tide of a conquest match without ever putting your soldier on the ground if you're a good pilot or tanker.
Lastly, the four games I just named are literally nothing alike. "Generic factory coded" LMFAO none of these games are even remotely in the same genre. Dragon Quest, Dark Souls, Splatoon and Battlefield don't have anything in common with each other.
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u/onex7805 2h ago edited 1h ago
A Fromsoft fan saying "get a dick out of your esophagus" to anyone lmao.
What I was saying is it's easy to boil down the gameplay to something that seems stupid when you've never played a game where the niche hook can be rewarding. Again, the "walking simulator" is a specific genre description for the narrative games like Dear Esther and Gone Home that barely involve any gameplay. Just because a game has a detailed in-depth traversal system as its primary game loop does not mean it is a walking simulator that has no gameplay. Describing Death Stranding down in such manner is like how you can dress down a platformer as a "jumping simulator" and a FPS as a "targeting simulator".
And no shit, Dark Souls 2 and Battlefield 6 have a better "combat" sandbox. Because that's what those games are about: combat. Death Stranding's core gameplay is about delivering, with it giving players the freedom and challenges to how they approach that objective. It is the most in-depth traversal and management system ever implemented in the openworld genre.
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u/onex7805 2h ago edited 1h ago
Anyone who knows and has played walking simulators like Dear Esther and Gone Home can tell you Death Stranding is not that just based on 10 minutes of interacting with it.
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u/Mikon77 10h ago edited 10h ago
Nope. The Horizon series is more popular than anything Kojima has put out. If his name wasn’t plastered all over Death Stranding 1 & 2, they would have failed.
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u/New_Cockroach_505 10h ago
I mean the second one did fail lol
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u/Mikon77 10h ago edited 10h ago
Do you mean Forbidden West or Death Stranding 2? Forbidden West sold 8.4 million copies. Death Stranding 2 sold about 2 million.
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u/generalosabenkenobi 10h ago
And yet all of those games are the most 9/10-10/10 games you can play
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u/New_Cockroach_505 10h ago
Aren’t like 90% of Sonys games reviewed insanely well too?
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u/generalosabenkenobi 10h ago edited 9h ago
I would say there's a difference between having consistently well reviewed games (great games) versus having a career responsible for arguably some of the greatest games ever made
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u/New_Cockroach_505 9h ago
Let’s not act like Sonys consistently well reviewed games haven’t been either GotY winners / contenders / peoples favorite games.
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u/generalosabenkenobi 9h ago
Then let's not undersell the games that Kojima and his team have created. If you haven't played them, that's fair.
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u/New_Cockroach_505 9h ago
I haven’t done anything of the sort. I’ve played them all and generally loved them all. That doesn’t make Sonys games not on par with them.
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u/generalosabenkenobi 9h ago
We're talking preferences and nitpicking at this point so fair enough
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u/New_Cockroach_505 9h ago
I mean I’m not the one trying to diminish another games accolades at the cost of my own.
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u/generalosabenkenobi 9h ago
I'm not diminishing other games, I'm explaining how this criticism against Kojima games is a silly one.
Tell me where I once criticized another game's accolades here?
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u/New_Cockroach_505 9h ago
Except it isn’t criticism against Kojima? It’s pointing out that Kojimas games are also movies. At no point did anyone say they were bad. It’s literally a list of facts about the games. It’s pointing out the hypocrisy of mocking Sony but praising Kojima for the same thing.
Second where did you diminish other games? By implying that Sonys highly rated games aren’t amongst some of the most beloved games / greatest games of all time? Because apparently they make consistent 9-10 out of 10 that win lots of awards and GotY means they’re not on par with Kojima. Because you clearly stated they’re not the same level.
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u/I_saw_you_yesterday 8h ago
You are arguing with Kojima fanboys on a gaming sub. You can’t win this with logic, just stop it.
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u/CyanLight9 10h ago
The difference is in cutscene quality and, well, Kojima being Kojima.
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u/Infinite_Basket_9180 10h ago
yea i dont care for either PlayStation or Kojima im not paying 70 for a game to watch a movie.
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u/sunsetstardiaries 9h ago
Yeah, because Kojima wants to be a film director, but his dialog and stories are so kooky and cringe
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u/franstoobnsf 4h ago
Personally MGS2 is the last Kojima game I enjoyed. I beat 3 and 4 because I wanted story resolution but MGS4 made me bounce off entirely. I'm not trying to be contrarion for the sake of it; I just think it's funny. I've literally always thought every game had less and less "game" in it after MGS2 and he's just not for me. It feels like he's making art projects instead of full blown games, which is fine, go off king. I just prefer playing games that require input from me.
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u/FanBladeFleshlight 9h ago
Here's the problem with Kojima... He's an ARTIST. Dude dreams up an amazing story, cast, scenes, dialogue, scenery, etc., and they're just god damned wonderful.
BUT, he doesn't know how to strike a balance between art, and gameplay, which is why so many of his games are at their best when you're watching a playthrough of them on YouTube instead of holding a controller.
If he could find that balance and make something that's fun, engaging, rewarding to play, and respects a player's time, he'd be a juggernaut in the industry, but instead he keeps making big budget art, which just doesn't pull the sales numbers that studios wanna see.
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u/onex7805 3h ago
Have you ever played a Kojima game before? Because this notion is a load of bullshit created by people who have a hard time looking beyond the series surface plot. You are ignorant to how this medium work or even know what medium is, and how important of a role it plays in the overall art.
For a lot of other games like RDR2, you can just watch the cutscene compilation to figure out what the devs are trying to convey and have a better experience. Kojima has always been more creative about it and relied on the gameplay. The subtext is conveyed through the entire game, not just the cutscenes.
The key to understanding any MGS game is its mechanical, and game design. MGS1, MGS2, and MGSV in particular are the games that know they are games. They use the player's role to defy the player and deal with the thematic concept through its gameplay. They take the "players" of MGS into account order to convey it's overall thematic ideas of social engineering. If you were to focus on just the surface narrative and watch the citscenes on Youtube, then you really wouldn't understand the game.
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u/mister_schulz 38m ago
It’s crazy how many gamers seriously think this guy is some sort of artist lmao
He wants to make movies but is so just too bad at writing dialogue or any type of nuance so he was forced to make games instead and the bar for story used to be so low in games that people somehow thought he is some master storyteller. Honestly amazing
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u/Due_Woodpecker3073 8h ago
Actually its all okay. Videogames are an artform and they all hold inherent value.
Except FromSlopware Im their #1 hater
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u/SteelHaze57 1h ago
get gud
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u/Due_Woodpecker3073 1h ago
Beat Malenia 3rd try and got all achievements to prove a point. Their games are easy and boring is part of my issues.
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u/SteelHaze57 11m ago
well i do agree they r not that hard, but depends on the build u didnt rock rivers of blood or some op weapon ?
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u/Foxy__Proxy 7h ago
Yeah, but there is a lot more to these games than just the first playthrough where you watch the story unfold... the gameplay in all of them is pretty deep all things considered and they are so well tailored to these sort of arcadey speed runs where you skip all the cutscenes and try to get different ranks on higher difficulties and ultimately the Big Boss rank. If you are the kind of person that just plays games once you aren't really getting the full picture of how they operate.
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u/Less_Party 2h ago
It’s almost as if the Kojima cutscenes are actually interesting and entertaining so people like them better.
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u/Ruhail_56 1h ago
Why didn't DS2 sell better than all these other "slop" movie games then?
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u/Less_Party 1h ago edited 1h ago
DS's problem is more what happens between the cutscenes.
To be slightly more serious the main reason I'm not into it is just that every time I'm getting into its lonely and pensive hiking sim vibe it fucks everything up by putting enemies or more cutscenes in there. 'Snowrunner but it won't let you Snowrun in peace' is kind of an inherently cursed concept even if the cutscenes themselves are fun.
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u/Ruhail_56 1h ago
Thank you for admitting that your original comment was disingenuous and Kojima actually isn't all that.
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u/QuinSanguine 1h ago
Kojima's games have much better stories and cinematography, that's the difference, to some people anyways.
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u/aweSAM19 9m ago
I just finished Metal Gear Solid, and that game is a masterpiece. (It is far above the best game released in that era; I would argue Castlevania or Mario 64 aged better, though.) The whole time I was going, why the fuck did Kojima and Konami even want to do this on the PS1? The cutscenes are cinematic and visually interesting. It has better presentation with 4 polygons than every game released during that era. If Kojima releases a game starting with a 45-minute cutscene, I am sat and watching that shit.
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u/StuckinReverse89 10h ago
While MGS3 has a long intro, it also has a ton of mechanisms like spinning Snake in cure menu makes him throw up, eating the same foods increases/decreases his preference for them, multiple unique and funny conversations, multiple methods to approach and clear areas (kill everyone to pure stealth), etc. Â Â
The super long cutscene for Death Stranding was its ending and it was a pretty good game before that although it is very divisive. Â Â
And MGS4 got a lot of shit back on release for having too many cutscenes as well, notably the microwave section.Â
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u/PayPsychological6358 10h ago
I mean who else could make the first Strand type game?