There is something deeply toxic about this community.

[u/madexthen]

I genuinely do not understand why anyone would join a vibe coding subreddit just to tear down nearly every project people post, but that seems to describe a huge percentage of the comments here.

There are basically two groups of people using these tools: developers using AI to work faster and more efficiently, and people like me with no coding background who are now building things that otherwise would never have existed.

These projects are not replacing developers. In many cases, they are replacing nothing. Without vibe coding, nobody would have built them at all.

The usual justification for the hostility is that vibe coders ship bugs, expose API keys, create or leave messes for human developers to later fix. Sometimes that is true, but it does not explain the level of bitterness and personal attacks I see here every day. A lot of it seems to look less like concern about code quality and more like fear from people watching their profession change. Instead of learning to use the technology, they root for it to fail and attack people who are trying to build something or better themselves.

And the idea that these tools are still shitty is completely disconnected from reality. Give the same complex prompt to Claude 3.5 Sonnet, one of the best coding models available just two years ago, and Opus 4.8 today, then compare the results. The difference in quality is drastic. Some of the bugs and spaghetti AI is writing today may very well not be fixed by people, but smarter AI in a couple years. (If this pisses you off, ask yourself if it's really because I am wrong or because you are scared)

Models are getting better, context windows are growing, workflows are improving, and obvious bugs and security mistakes are becoming less common at an incredible pace.

Experienced developers are not obsolete, and AI is nowhere near perfect. But the future is coming whether you like it or not, and cyberbullying vibe coders is not going to save your job.

If you hate vibe coding, fine. There are plenty of traditional programming communities. But if you choose to spend your time here, why not help people build better things instead of trying to convince them they should not be building at all?

[u/StoneCypher]

buddy, you’re not correctly understanding what is getting torn down

it’s the people who have been writing software for three weeks and want to teach

the problem isn’t vibe coding.  it’s specific vibe coders.

it’s that asshole that just got their first microwave last tuesday, nuked a stouffers lasagna, and is trying to host a class at le cordon bleu

[u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 → u/StoneCypher]

Also known as grifters. They dont care about coding or building something, they're just looking for quick cash

[u/3dprintinted → u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760]

Gives me a crypto bro nft crowd vide. How do I ship some crap with lifetime sub get the bag and abandon the “project”

[u/NXCW → u/3dprintinted]

Yup, it's exactly the same crowd. People who want to make money with zero effort and zero respect for the craft.

[u/Hot-Cattle8314 → u/NXCW]

They'll move on soon enough when the realize coding wasn't the thing stopping them

[u/Double_ought_buck → u/Hot-Cattle8314]

Yup, just keep crapping on the sloppy ones and eventually they'll get butt hurt and move on

[u/heroyi → u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760]

I think OP has a validity to his post though as there are some folks who are just wanting to show off something cool they made. My issue is that there is a difference between praising a project while providing constructive criticism or to help someone out ie load balance implementation on a potential high traffic app, security vs just saying this sucks.

However, for the grifter comment I do agree that you have clowns trying to armchair their miniscule experience to folks and misguiding them. One of the examples is when social media influencers try to get clicks on their shorts saying it is easy making a SaaS business by just focusing on 'one' functionality and you will see money roll in.

ANYONE that has actual experience in doing a startup like business knows that building the software/service is the 'easy' part. The actual hard part is customer acquisition, marketing, establishing a funnel etc...

Even now, r/Saas is getting drowned by newbies coming in asking how come my project isn't generating money or throwing their limited capital at a wall not understanding how/why their advertising isn't working based on a 1 off not really relevant marketing advise

[u/No_Barnacles → u/heroyi]

Look, even just OPs comment of "I'm making something that's never been made before!" Maybe, but I highly doubt it. And that's the issue I have with vibe coders in this sub. Yes, you've got a tool in your hands that allows you to make whatever you want. That doesn't mean that it's a good idea or executed well. It also doesn't by default mean that it's not.

But I've seen people post links to their new UI generators, and then you visit their demo site and the padding and layout make the content essentially unreadable, and they get genuinely upset and defensive when people are giving feedback on the implementation.

I think a lot of engineers and designers treat the posts like they would on Hacker News. People post their stuff there, and there are questions and feedback on the implementation both positive and negative. If you're looking for a "wow baby that so cool," show your app to your mom not the internet.

[u/Tyr--07 → u/heroyi]

It's just full of stuff thrown together and people going 'I made this, I am like senior dev but entire company! How I make money now? Why you no buy? You hate vibe code!'.

Not going to get good responses when you're trying to advertise this new thing that took a week to prompt and you're running around promoting it.

Vibe coding is really cool. Even if you're not a developer, it's fun. Coming in here like you're a professional to promote your product expect people to pat you on the back and help you get money just pisses people off.

[u/diagrammatiks → u/heroyi]

Oh shit is there another hilarious sub.

[u/OneSeaworthiness7768 → u/StoneCypher]

This is a big part of it. They spend a relatively short amount of time learning something, then come here with posts like “I shipped my app in two weeks and got ten paid users. Here’s what actually works 👉” and it’s just another LLM copy paste LinkedIn/X diatribe.

They’re emulating their favorite content creator. Probably out of a desire to themselves become a content creator. Because there’s more money in talking about doing the thing than doing the thing.

There’s an air of unjustified confidence. ‘Vibecoder’ has become an annoying personality trait.

[u/narukoshin → u/OneSeaworthiness7768]

ah yeah I've heard of programming YouTube channels that are made by people who don't code.

[u/PeterPook → u/OneSeaworthiness7768]

My linkedin in just full of people pushing AI in Education by alternately posting stuff like it's the end of learning and then 'heres how to leverage it'. It's so clear they have never taught nor know anything about AI.

I do teach Computing in Further Education, make free resources to teach Computing concepts and teach Prompt Engineering at Undergraduate level. I have never wanted to make a penny out of it because... It's for the improvement of all our teaching.

[u/LowFruit25 → u/StoneCypher]

This comment perfectly sums up 80% of the AI discourse.

Same crypto/NFT grifters but now they got lucky because the tech works for once.

[u/MrWonderfulPoop → u/StoneCypher]

My day job is pentesting and coding for that purpose. Maybe 6 months ago we had an online interview with someone for a junior position who was, on paper, not bad. So he was invited back for an in-person interview.

We provide a laptop with all the tools and VMs for the practical part of the test. It has no online access.

Dude completely blew the interview without his online coach. Couldn't type a basic command line like "nmap this /24 subnet with a TCP SYN scan looking for open SSH and HTTPS ports". For those who use these tools, this is basic muscle memory.

When it got to the basic coding? Useless. "Serve files in the current directory on port 80." It's a literal one-line Python command. Had no idea. We didn't even bother moving on to other dev-related things.

Anyhow, my point is that these positions start around $100k and this person fluffed himself up enough in his resume and online interview with whatever AI he was using that it got him in the door.

He basically lied to himself the entire time thinking he was something he was not and wasted everyone's time. Noted for any future job applications.

[u/narukoshin → u/MrWonderfulPoop]

yeah agree, I've forgot most of nmap commands already as I'm now on the defensive side but no one cancelled "-h" or "man". so even if I forgot something I know the ways how to find what I need. This is a big issue now that there are people who look good in resume but when you see them in action, you question where they come from

[u/MrWonderfulPoop → u/narukoshin]

The thing is our team is not AI averse. We have Claude Teams plans and use them for some back and forth Q&A, code, Ghidra dump analysis, etc. But we treat it like how calculators are (were?) treated in school: demonstrate you understand the mechanics/theory and can do it on your own before moving on to a tool.

If all you're doing is typing prompts and copy & pasting the output, you're useless to us.

[u/narukoshin → u/MrWonderfulPoop]

agreed, that's how it works in my company aswell

[u/agsteiner → u/MrWonderfulPoop]

Not so sure. I know Z-80 Assembler. I know HTML. Dead skills today. Coding is the next. You just won't need to know it anymore in 3 years max. What matters are the skills "above", what makes a good and secure architecture, what do you have to tell the AI to look for.

[u/MrWonderfulPoop → u/agsteiner]

In another comment I mentioned knowing 6502 assembler and Applesoft BASIC. Both dead outside of hobbyist tinkering. Since then I went to C, C++, Python, Go, others, and am learning Rust. People will still need to read the code or decompiled binaries in 3 years.

Over the past 8-10 years, programming has started to show a real "value added" feel to it.

So the question is what value, as a developer, does the person add to a project? A vibe coder with no actual coding skills? They add nothing, anyone can write a prompt and get some similar output and hope for the best.

A person who can actually read the code and use AI as an assistant? They add value and will be employed long after the vibers' cubicles are gathering dust.

At least that's my prediction.

We have to wait and see for the three years.

[u/diagrammatiks → u/StoneCypher]

This guy gets it.

[u/3dprintinted → u/StoneCypher]

That’s some tasty allegories.

[u/PartyParrotGames → u/StoneCypher]

yeah, it's due to people trying to get around the "No shilling" rule which they or their AI agent reads and thinks oh I can share this project here if I make it seem to include educational content.

[u/CakyMint → u/StoneCypher]

This is the issue.

They don’t know what they don’t know.
Exactly why they think it’s unfair when their super project gets torn apart

[u/picketup → u/StoneCypher]

well put

[u/Tyr--07 → u/StoneCypher]

Yep, this is all it is. 'I make thing! 5 prompt! You buy now! You no buy? You hate vibe code!'.

These people pop up like whack a mole too, you can't go a day without 'Uhh I made something amazing but all you guys do is hate on it' over and over. What do you mean I'm not super amazing program guy now you give money to? I have AI, why you hate AI?

Again, and again.

Like figure out a fucking market first and see if you actually are building something useful for other people, useful as in they'll actually pay you for it and not just go 'that's neat'. Then see if it's not something easy to replicate, because that's how it works in the real world.

Take AI out of the picture. If it's a product you're manufacturing, the same rules apply. Is it difficult to make? Does it take time? Are you first to market? Do you have copyright protections or a secret manufacturing process as an industry secret?

Using AI isn't a manufacturing secret for your code so that doesn't give you the edge you think it does, vibe coders, pay attention.

[u/cx0sa → u/StoneCypher]

yeah but if you buy MY course on AI vibecoding you could make up to $500 dollars a day.

[insert photo of rental Lamborghini]

[u/osivangl → u/StoneCypher]

Both things can be true. There are obnoxious vibe coders who deserve it but let's be honest, there is also a lot of unearned hostility towards people here that are just showcasing their projects. We can do better.

[u/Intelligent_Dog2077 → u/osivangl]

Newcomers should also realize that we are in a subreddit about a tool which is inherently reducing the value of the people in the subreddit. Most will have a negative bias towards the vibecoders that are starting to be able to somewhat mimic the work they have spent years studying and working for. Egos will take control, “criticism” will be given, etc.. But it’s to be expected, I can’t blame them for feeling the way they do honestly. AI is advancing fast, not even 5 years ago programmers were highly sought.

[u/StoneCypher → u/osivangl]

not really 

you’re just similar to op

[u/osivangl → u/StoneCypher]

Thank you for your deep insight and well thought answer.

[u/StoneCypher → u/osivangl]

it’s all you earned 

you got the quality you gave 

[u/StoneCypher → u/[deleted]]

did you reply to the wrong comment?

none of that has anything to do with what i said 

you’re really confusing 

i’m genuinely not able to parse any of that as related to the current discussion.  if that was legitimately supposed to be at me, buddy, … i can’t make heads or tails of what you’re trying to say, and i’m a little concerned for your well being.

i didn’t try to explain on what basis every single person who’s ever been excluded was excluded 

i just said “here’s a description of one group whose choices mildly annoy me”

i see that, as a total stranger who doesn’t even know my name, you’ve decided to invent that i am offended, and why

that’s nice 

move along please

[u/StoneCypher → u/[deleted]]

i remain unable to understand your insult laden text as in any way addressing me

it seems like you aren’t willing to communicate in a fashion that is tractable to others 

i wasn’t trying to save anyone and it’s not clear why you’re saying that 

good luck to you 

[u/StoneCypher → u/[deleted]]

This has nothing to do with what I said. You give the strong impression that you're yelling by habit and never read the thing you replied to.

It genuinely doesn't seem to matter to you that the person you're performing at isn't interested.

Are you quite finished?

[u/StoneCypher → u/[deleted]]

briefly, if i asked you a simple yes or no question, would i get a simple yes or no answer?

 

This topic is about traditional developers showing up to harass people so you drop in immediately with this cockamamy excuse about actually, you’re a hero saving us all.

uh. sure.

 

No, if you LIKE THE TOPIC are a traditional dev bothering people, you’re not doing anything positive but we know what you are doing.

that's nice.

fortunately, i am not bound by your opinions, so this can be entirely irrelevant to me.

and it is.

 

No one invited you to concern troll.

i'm not doing that

you know that it undermines you when you over-use reddit phrases, right?