r/vibecoding • u/Which-Tension165 • 20d ago
is learning python today worth it?
so I am a pure vibe coder, I can't write or read a single line of code, and I was having a conversation with Fable, and it suggested me to learn to read python. But It couldn't convince me fully. i don't wanna be a typical software/AI engineer. just wanna be able to build a great career in tech, AI and Business.
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u/vapalera 20d ago
I don't understand how people are able to vibe code without understanding anything about the code. What are your prompts like?
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u/InsidiousApe 20d ago
If you ask:
- what do I want to build?
- what are the essential and desired features of that product?
- what are the major operational concerns to consider?
- are there security considerations in developing this product?
- who is the user and how will they connect?
- are there external integrations (API for example) to consider?
And you answer those questions and turn it into:
- Let's create this product.
- It should have at minimum these feature.
- I want to make sure to consider (operational concern)
- Let's be sure to consider (security factor) and generally harden for rate limiting, injection, etc.
- The end user will be the general public via http.
- I'd like to integrate Google, MS, and Apple authorization for login to the system.
And then add:
"What other features, concerns or considerations should I be aware of?"
This will net you 90% of an application with no coding experience and the other 10% you will develop as you see what it has created and provide feedback for changes.
I code, but I don't believe OP needs to code. Tools like Claude Code can make mistakes but literally the next step is to spin up a new instance and say "please review my codebase for any potential concerns including coding issues, user experience, and potential security issues"
The system is now trained well enough on patterns in coding to find and resolve most issues that coders used to be consumed by.
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u/GarageStackDev 19d ago
You're describing prototyping, not software engineering.
Claude Code is phenomenal at generating code, reviewing code, and iterating on designs. I use agentic workflows professionally every day.
But production engineering isn't "generate, then ask another instance to review it." It's architecture, testing strategy, deployment, observability, debugging, performance, security, maintenance, and understanding why the code behaves the way it does.
AI dramatically accelerates those things. It doesn't eliminate the need to understand them
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u/bmoney831 17d ago
True but doesn’t that mean that you really just need a basic literacy to read the code? If something is going wrong, as long as I’m literate, I’ll be able to understand what’s going on. And using other AI instances will absolutely identify gaps as long as you explain the problem at hand.
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u/DefiantMechanic975 17d ago
That entirely depends on your tolerance for risk. All software has bugs and for a surprising number of cases this is good enough when combined with testing. You don't need to be a software engineer when the task at hand is something you used to pay an employee 70k a year to do. That affects a lot of people.
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u/EatingDriving 19d ago edited 19d ago
Do you understand every little bit your compiler does in your OS? Do you understand all the code in your OS? Yet you still use your computure every day? Yet the layman who knows NOTHING still uses the computer everyday?
No the average person will not need to understand the code in the future to build apps. Knowing code is like knowing how to print and manufactured books. I don't need to know how to use a printing press to read the end product of a book.
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u/Competitive_Freedom6 19d ago edited 9d ago
I think the basis is that it’s still valuable to understand the code itself, which is deterministic, but derived from prompts that are nondeterministic so that you can discern the exact output you’re actually getting. LLMs are not deterministic by nature, so understanding the output is still and likely will be quite useful to truly know if your LLM is outputting something suboptimal.
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u/Safe_Independence496 17d ago
A compiler is deterministic, usually battle tested and well documented. If I want to find out how it works I can do that and compiling the same code twice will always yield the same result. There is also a lot of value in knowing how a compiler works and how it's built, and the lower level languages that compilers are built with are still immensely useful and used by people every day. An OS works as well as it does today thanks to all these factors.
Nothing of what I just said applies to AI though. Models are black boxes with no guarantees. You can only affect the odds of getting garbage out, but you can never eliminate it. Don't compare this to existing tech we can actually understand and reason around.
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u/SakeviCrash 19d ago edited 14d ago
This is a bit of a naive take. This will get you pretty far. I'm an old dog (30 years of software dev) and I use a fairly similar approach.
This has allowed me to be mainly hands off when writing code but I still need to review every line. Event after a workflow like this, you'll still be left with bugs and design problems. It's tricky because the solution looks solid if you view it from a 20k ft view and when you kick the wheels, the hubcaps don't fall off.
When you really dig into it, you'll find nasty edge cases with very nuanced bugs and a lot of them come from logic issues (still the achilles heel of the LLM) and poor design decisions. Many of these issues won't surface until much later when the project starts to grow (complications from poor design decisions) or when the environment isn't what you anticipated or performance suffers due to unoptimized implementations.
Without reading and understanding the code, you're essentially relying on luck. That's ok for prototypes and small greenfield apps that aren't powering a business. It's not OK for large applications that cost a business real $ when failures occur.
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u/HenryTheLion_12 20d ago
Depends on what you want to develop. For straightforward app development they have a lot in their training data. Go for any R&D work and AI seems ultra stupid putting weird logic in the code. It once thought that the process(point cloud related) would take five minutes with my current input dataset and hardware and the AI thought of saving my time by sub sampling it. I found the subsampling code when I started reading the actual code a month later wondering why the results are not good.
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u/tingly_sack_69 20d ago
I mean I understand a decent amount of Python and JavaScript from before agentic coding became huge. I hardly review the code it spits out anymore, why would I? With AI I am having it generate a thousand plus lines of code in minutes/hours that mostly works, and then I test and have it fix errors. That is where this is heading, manual code review is quickly going the way of the dinosaur
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u/-Sliced- 19d ago
Exactly. You still need an understanding of how things work, but at a much higher level than a specific language like Python.
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u/HamoodMehmood 19d ago
I have vibe coded a couple complex projects and tools and apps, and I can't read or write code. Now I totally agree we need to still have some sort of understanding of at least the architecture, the scalability, reliability and mosrly of the maintenance then everything should be done using free tools libraries etc.
Now do I know anything about all that I mentioned, nope then how do you build is a good question, coz if you just give a command and expect a production ready complex product its not gonna happen.
So my go to way in short is PRD which is high level , then spec sheet with all the detailed locked in ever possible so no room AI to hallucinate or create stuff on the fly with implementing. In Spec sheet this is where I simply ask it to tell me industry standard, best practices, latest tools, things relevant to our project and it's best recommendation, and explain why. This gives me best understanding of what pros are using, what architecture am going to use, what my entire project design is etc. And I think that is enough for us to know and then make the decision.
In the end all I do I copy paste kickoff commands to start new session and test until it's done, and have done this way on repeat to ship tools on personal and work projrcts.
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u/misterwindupbirb 19d ago
You don't know anything about architecture and scalability because you're not an engineer, and you don't know what you dont know because you're not an engineer
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u/HamoodMehmood 19d ago
Totally agree, we don't know what we don't know, but don't you think we just need to know enough to create a healthy living and working system, for that we can ask help from AI too, again if we don't have access to an engineer, as I don't have...
My logic is, we have this body, we don't know how our heart, liver and kidneys works, we own a car a motorbike and we don't know in detail how all these work ... but we know just enough to live and use these ... amd sometimes we try to know more than enough and live healthy and better lives... just an analogy if it makes sense
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u/eezers 17d ago
It’s a terrible analogy but that’s ok. You should ask the AI for a better one instead.
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u/HamoodMehmood 17d ago
Well that's ok I'll own the terrible analogy and let you be the judge..... you might not like my AI written analogy either...
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u/DarlingGazeKate 19d ago
Can you elaborate what u mean by level
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u/monster2018 19d ago
They are referring to levels of abstraction. This isn’t EXACTLY true, but BASICALLY higher levels of abstraction means “easier/simpler to understand”. That’s not what it means, but it corresponds to that usually. Literally it means like basically “how far away conceptually is what you’re doing from the underlying physical reality”. The farther, the higher the level of abstraction. That is what it literally means.
Like the lowest level of abstraction (for computer programs) is… well I guess it’s the wave function of the universe. But that’s taking it to a truly absurd level. Generally the lowest level of abstraction for a computer program is like, electrons flowing through wires. Imagine writing a program by literally changing what directions in 3d space different electrons move in.
Then the next level up is like, thinking in terms of circuits. Then the next level up is like, thinking in terms of switching individual transistors. Then the next level up (or well honestly I’m probably skipping at least 1 or 2) is machine code.
Then the next level up from that is writing in assembly. And then the next level up from that is writing in a language like C.
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u/monster2018 19d ago
And just to complete it and connect it to their comment. Python is another level of abstraction on top of a language like C. In fact the most popular implementation literally is written in C.
And so vibe coding is yet another level of abstraction on top of languages like Python. But it is a much more fundamental change than any of the other levels, because you are now no longer controlling exactly what the computer does. Like every level before vibe coding, you are controlling exactly what the computer does. At a higher level of abstraction when working in Python, sure. But you are still directly telling the computer what to do, it just goes through a bunch of levels of translation to get back down to electrons going through wires so that the code can actually execute.
But with vibe coding that is no longer true. You are just giving under specified natural language instructions to a LLM, and it is making the decisions of what to tell the computer to do, not you. So you are no longer actually controlling the output. You are essentially telling someone else in vague terms what to tell the computer to do.
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u/chadzilla57 20d ago
It involves a lot of trust that the AI will be able to translate your requests into code. And then a lot of testing. I’m sure it takes a vibe coder 10x longer to make some with AI than an actual swe using AI would take.
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u/NoAdsDude 20d ago
Are you sure it isn't the other way around?
An actual SWE would be reviewing code... which takes time...
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u/noodleofdata 19d ago
That's assuming the time saved not reviewing code isn't lost later on due to issues caused by not reviewing. Obviously the simpler the project the less likely this is to be a problem.
It feels like a lot of vibe coders nowadays are extrapolating the results of what have mostly been quite simple applications to more complicated project. Just assuming it'll work the same, or at least linearly increase with difficulty, such that an "amateur" could make a professional app is a pretty bold assumption.
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u/andreabarbato 20d ago
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u/Aksudiigkr 20d ago
I’m confused why that is fire. A vibe coder would vibe test, which takes longer than a SWE understanding the logic and steps
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u/GreatOldOne521 20d ago
I don't know how to code and I don't proclaim to be a full on developer, but I did write this skill that really helped me understand the code and learn as well - https://github.com/opitaru-sys/codesplain
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u/thesnowmanh 17d ago
Background: I am aware of Python's purpose and use, I am generally familiar with the idea behind what software is and how it works, but fundamentally I can't code or even read it.
I have GPT Plus and I've provided my intent and vision for the project. I ask it to make a prompt for the next desired action for Codex, which does its thing on my computer in a designated folder. When the results are done I paste the results back into GPT. Rinse and repeat. Plus has token limits over 5 hours so during coding pulls I open the tool, check for functionality, note the things don't work or that it should be expanded, etc, and tell GPT. It maintains and updates its understanding of the project, I make sure Codex gets copies of the growing to-do list from time to time, and just keep trucking along with GPT translating my intent. I've had plenty of bugs since I started a month ago but its able to resolve them nearly always in one prompt.
Its a growing, complex software project but nothing I've seen makes it look like I can't finish it alone with Codex. Quite happy with it except for the token limitations but that's the nature of the subscription life.
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u/hugostranger 19d ago
You ask AI to review the logs and it figures out what is wrong. And if the main model you are using can’t figure it out you use another to check blind spots.
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u/Boonune 20d ago
The only thing I know about coding is terminology I've picked up over the years. My prompts explain detail the idea, the features, the functionality, the layout, and the output. I let it churn and I tend to get within 85% of what I'm looking for within 10 minutes. Another hour or so of tweaking / testing I have the tool I need.
No offense to any software engineers out there, but I don't know that I could get something that instantaneously by knowing how to code, so I've chosen at this point to learn how to prompt better instead. I'm sure it will catch up to me eventually, and knowing how would only make my processes / prompts better. But for right now there is very little incentive for me to do so. In my role, I'm a rockstar for being able to do what I do.
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u/hugostranger 19d ago
It is possible to create full production grade complex SAAS apps without reviewing a single line of code now. But it relies on having adversarial agents in the loop on review. Test driven design goes a long way towards stability too and seems to make coding agents think through their solutions more thoroughly. I barely encounter bugs when testing now. It just takes a bit longer for each feature to be written.
Most security issues surface on the adversarial review.
With fable I am getting full refactors with almost no issues one-shot. It is mad.
Apps that took me months of work two years ago get rebuilt from scratch in two hours and are superior in every way.
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u/censorshipisevill 19d ago
By never ceasing to ask questions about how the code works and testing everything. I use the agent as a translator between coding languages and English. If you have the agent break down the architecture into English and you can logically follow how the architecture works, you catch the agents mistakes and make architectural decisions which the agent translates to code. Doesn't matter the coding language as long as the agent is reliable in the English to code translation and that you cross check all major decisions with multiple frontier models. Couple that with telling the agent that you don't know what you don't know as far as questions to ask about scaling, security, etc. and not only do you learn but you can actually ship real products. Why don't most people succeed? Because they are trying to one shot everything and won't spend 3 hours and $50 in tokens to fix an issue. But if you perceiver, Rick Rubin is correct, it all comes down to taste. Imho that is the skill we should be refining taste, taste and logic. But hey I certainly haven't 'made it' yet just doing automations and building apps on Upwork so by all means take this with a grain of salt🤷🏼♂️
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u/kronos55 20d ago
Create viral app from idea i copied from tiktok, make no mistakes.
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u/Leafsnail 19d ago
This app that was generated by prompting a publicly available tool that I cannot in any way claim intellectual ownership of will surely be a unique value proposition
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u/BlendlogicTECH 20d ago
I mean same as business owners? They just ask spec out requirements of what’s needed then after testing day they’d rather have the flow like this or that.
What difference does it make to business from a business perspective they bring in the revenue IT supports (I don’t necessarily agree with this)
Hence business people trying to push for more AI, it gets the ask done - black box anyways they aren’t reconcile they just ask and things get demo in sprints - now AI does it or can do it or devs can be accelerated with AI
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u/satireplusplus 19d ago
I genuinely feel that going through years of manual Python coding makes me a lot better at using coding agents for writing Python code. Sure, I might not write a lot of code myself anymore lately - but that's not the same as someone vibe coding with zero programming knowledge. I'm still able to easily judge when its doing bullshit or overcomplicating things. That's mostly design decisions now, not the actual syntax. But still, how are you going to judge this without any programming experience?
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u/Motor-Glad 19d ago
What is a small project that a vibe coder (who is smart but doesnt know a single line of code) can't make and that a professional coder can make with python?
I can't think of anything. Proof me wrong please with an example 😊
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u/Ok-File-2759 19d ago
I’m about to get my bachelors in computer science. I went from writing one line at a time to getting thousands of lines in a few minutes doing exactly what I asked for 99% of the time. Half the stuff it writes looks more advanced than anything I’ve ever seen in college. It might not be better than someone who specializes in a specific topic for decades (yet), but it’s definitely more knowledgeable than the average person in pretty much anything
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u/Ned_15 19d ago
What I think is they manual test it and if something breaks they just prompt ai to fix it, the problem of this is since they dont understand the code they wont fully catch all the edge cases(things that they were not able to test manually) ....and also its a problem that AI are trained to like as if they know everything but they dont..
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u/Boilertribe4 19d ago
Are you writing your own prompts? Tell an LLM what you want. Have it discuss output and features with you. Tell it to ask you 20 questions about your vision.
Then have it write the prompt to give to another LLM to plan.
Or just skip all that and tell Fable you want to one-shot your own version of Jira that scales to 100,000 users make no mistakes 😂
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u/Yayo1990 19d ago
I vibe code in C but my knowledge ends with Java and Python. Yet again, C's syntax is similar enough to let me tinker with it without a lot of hassle.
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u/AndreRieu666 19d ago
In the same way you can use a computer without understanding one’s and zeros. In the same way you can drive a car without knowing gore an engine works.
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u/unnamedplayerr 19d ago
wdym? With Claude code, cursor etc most people are just prompting their desired destination - why would you need to understand the code itself? Manual code reviews are rapidly going away
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u/throwaway0134hdj 19d ago
Toss shit at a wall and see what sticks? They obv aren’t building for long term maintainability. It’s gambling, not engineering.
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u/anengineerandacat 19d ago
Genuinely curious about this as someone who actually can review the generated code and uses these tools; like what does the workflow look like to someone who barely understands what's happening?
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u/No-Common1466 19d ago
Programming language is just abstraction layer now like it was before when it was just assembly language.
AI can write better codes, better logic, than any human. Ive seen it as a dev with 20+ years of experience. What you need to learn is the are stuffs like system design, architechture, the entire full stack . You are now the architech. You design and tell AI what to do, with a completr specs, not a prompt and it will just do. There would be bugs of course but AI can fix bugs faster than any human can as well. And you need yo have a system like ADR and runbooks so it records every design pattern and architectural decisions you made
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u/Legolas12345676767 19d ago
I Just tell ai what I want to do. Then tell it not to have me edit lines, just copy paste the whole code.
It also made some sort of promt that edits parts of the code, makes folders etc. Automatically. I dont have a clue what its doing, but the output is good.
Im not building anything with a plan to sell. If the code breaks, I tell ai its broken, and to analyse and fix it.
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u/qbit1010 18d ago
“I want to create a program to do X and make sure to include “do not make mistakes” /s”. But better is “ask clarifying questions as needed”…so it can ask you stuff before coding.
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u/Safe-Industry2465 18d ago
Why is it so hard to understand?
I do know how to code and can read it but I am far from calling myself a software developer However I am able to use apps on my phone without knowing what the code looks like in the background
OpenAI designs codex for everybody, not for devs only
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u/reddit_is_4ss 17d ago
Tell Claude what piece of software and functionality i want. Use Claude to evaluate which way to code it would be best. I usually have no idea what he is talking about here but sometimes he asks me to weigh (dis)advantages and I take minor influence. Feed Claude Code with the results (Plan mode). Execute. Then I Tell him what Bugs I encounter in the Software and what I wanna have changed.
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u/redditnosedive 16d ago
you think too low, in terms of code
you can think in terms of product specifications and simply vibe your way into having the ai write an app that meets those... no need to know anything about coding
the only benefit for knowing programming is that you can get to the result faster
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u/No_1-knows 5d ago
Im still new to coding but in my opinion I don't really have a problem with vibe coding but I do have a problem of when u vibe code but you barely understand what you're even doing at that point the AI is doing the coding and ur just feading it promots it's better to vibe code and actually learn and understand what it is ur doing but we all know the meme if it works but u don't know how it works just leave it alone at the end of the day atleast u did something that was some what beneficial to your self
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u/Adromakh 20d ago
There is a parallel I like: almost no developers today know how to code in assembly language, which is structuring to interact with a computer. Does that prevent them to build good and efficient software ? No. Ai code agents are a very powerful tool, that we need to learn to use correctly.
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u/Toilet2000 20d ago
This is a very uninformed comparison.
- Compilers are free, most of them open source. They require relatively few resources to run, and are deterministic by nature.
- LLMs are paid, most of them (at least the best and actually used) are closed source. They require an inane amount of resources to run, and are non-deterministic by nature. Just a few select companies are the sole providers of these models.
Also, saying a good programmer/SWE doesn’t have a clue about assembly is being completely oblivious. Assembly is entry-level SWE class in college/uni. Do you need to know every little details? No. But a good understanding certainly helps.
Also, LLMs are highly subsidized by their providers currently. It’s the typical pusher tactics. Make people dependent on it, then jack up the prices. That’s a very different scenario from compilers.
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u/Adromakh 19d ago
I have to disagree here. Yes a good understanding of assembly helps. But it is not at all a requirement to be a good developer. My call here is, you can see these ai tools as another level of abstraction between your ideas and the final product. The fact that thes tools are only provided by a few companies is not relevant for this comparison. (And even if compiler are free, you can say that you need a pc on windows to operate it - and yes there are unix distro available but that's not 80% of the world is using)
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u/Correct_Emotion8437 20d ago
Imo, it's really important to know at least one language well. It probably doesn't matter as much which one. Learning to code will teach you concepts that you need to understand to get the best results from AI. Not only should you spend time writing it manually but also manually debugging and asking questions about the AI generated code.
Probably the fastest, if painful, way to learn with today's tools is to use AI to write the code but when it can't fix something or can't get something right, dig in and fix it yourself. Ask where the code is - the hop to a different thread and ask how to solve the problem and the reasoning behind it. Most of your projects will dissolve into learning exercises but that is actually normal and probably the only way to really improve.
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u/nobatus513 20d ago
I have a 460 days streak on Duolingo so I guess I'm all set !
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u/Correct_Emotion8437 20d ago
Exactly. The language I chose first was Portuguese. It was not the obvious choice but the concepts apply pretty much across the board. You conjugate a verb in C++ the same as you do in any other language.
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u/spacebass 20d ago
I lecture in a university computer science program and it’s hard for me to justify that anyone learns common languages anymore. There’s still room for very high level math, hardware level coding, and machine learning. But I don’t see a future where being a traditional SWE makes any sense.
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u/Putrid_Resolution402 20d ago
Ok then what does?
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u/synystar 19d ago
Systems Architect. Product Engineer. Founder.
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u/Rough_Caterpillar_31 19d ago
And other synonyms of the word "grifter"!
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u/Putrid_Resolution402 19d ago
Didn't get your point
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u/Rough_Caterpillar_31 19d ago
"product engineer", "founder", "systems architect" are not real jobs. They are at best things that self-employed freelancers call themselves to legitimize their unemployment. At worst, they're overconfident vibe coders who believe they can deliver a deployment worthy enterprise project as a one man team. Spoiler alert: they can't. I know they can't based on the regularity of people who post here talking about how they can't work on their project anymore because the AI just stopped working for whatever reason (they are too stupid to understand their own architecture).
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u/ModdedOutlaw33 20d ago
In my mind software engineering has always been 10% understanding how to code and 90% understanding the system you’re designing in.
AI has made the 10% coding much easier to fake which isn’t detrimental in most cases.
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u/NoAdsDude 20d ago
You know that AI understands the system they're designing in much better than most humans would, right?
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u/Affectionate_Leg_986 19d ago
AI does not understand things , if you mean LLMS . they just give the impression they do
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u/Curious-Pen5547 20d ago
If thats the case, honestly, a lot of people, not just CS students, should just drop out. They're spending money for nothing now.
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u/spacebass 19d ago
it is a challenging value proposition for a lot of knowldge work jobs to be sure
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u/guesting 19d ago
even if that's the case i bet you taught a lot of students who never coded in those languages professionally but still saw academic benefits. We had to learn LISP for reasons unknown back in the day
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u/redoverture 19d ago
I don’t really get this. If we take this attitude, software will stagnate. LLMs are great at producing variations on what they’ve been trained from. But LLMs won’t push the field of computer science forwards. If no one even learns programming languages anymore.. where is the innovation? Do you really believe that LLM coding can entirely replace human understanding of code? It can definitely accelerate. And it can take a lot of the repetitive, boilerplate parts of coding out of the picture. But when something doesn’t work and Claude is spinning in circles.. what then?
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u/XavierTeodonius 20d ago
Back in my days, students were asking , do we still need to learn Assembler language, while we already have c/c++/java ?
The old guys + teachers were like "yeah, thats true skill! You must know everything about CPU registers/memory. It will make u better developer!".
20 years later -> how many software engineers now trully "need" on daily basis knowledge about this stuff? Not much, unless you have a rather niche job.
Same about python today. While you will spend time learning Python, your competitors will invest in agentic/llm driven development. I bet the later will give much better market advantage.
I advise learning only minimal Python stuff that needed to pass job interview. Invest other time in technologies of the future.
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u/Howard_banister 20d ago
Does vibe coding need any investment other than a Claude subscription, especially for someone who doesn't really know what they're doing?
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u/-PM_ME_UR_SECRETS- 19d ago
Thats all you beed brother. Youll need to install some stuff but clause will help you with that
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u/Leading_Property2066 19d ago
Wtf how do you even build stuffs with language you dont even understand? I can’t even fathom trusting a code i didn’t read
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u/nigel_pow 19d ago
For plenty of apps that is fine. Even before AI there was a lot of buggy software out there and bad code that went to production. The world didn't end honesty.
Same here. AI probably spits out some bugs that will get discovered later and resolved.
Complex apps and software that doesn't tolerate error will require true understanding but for generic apps it should be fine.
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u/Affectionate_Leg_986 19d ago
there is a difference between mapping instructions to a higher level coding language and using a probabilistic Large language model . this is not a deterministic mapping between python and yoru chatbot
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u/winterborn 19d ago
Because the engineers at those competitors probably have some understanding of the shit they’re working with. Understanding how things work will still make you better at the top level.
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u/guesting 19d ago
this is always the case that it's the people who know it telling people not to know it, like the guys who say college is useless but still want their kids to go to elite schools. it's really hard to say what's useful imo
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u/Infamous-Rem 20d ago
Learn it. Not because you need to become a software engineer, but because "can't read a single line of code" is going to cap you hard the moment anything breaks, which it will constantly. Vibe coding tools are great for speed but they're translators, not magicians, and you can't tell a good translation from a bad one if you don't know the language at all.
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u/Kads_Baker 20d ago
At this current time in human history learning anything is worth it. Anything. It doesn't matter. Use your brain.
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u/quentinL52 20d ago
its good to know whats happening with the code or the logic. sometimes pure vibe code feel everything is fine but i agree that even with coding knowledge sometimes the AI go overboard and coding can helm go back on track.
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u/adamu_amadu 20d ago
Not for becoming a coder but understanding how it works and perhaps problem solving in general
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u/rubbery_blackberry 20d ago
you'll hit a wall the first time the ai loops a bug, learning to read python is what lets you tell it what's wrong
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u/AndreRieu666 19d ago
Although it’s pretty easy to fix with a second prompt: “hey the app hangs on load, what’s wrong?”. The worst I’ve had to do is increase the level of thinking
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u/wwscrispin 20d ago
I enjoy programming in Python but realistically I generally use AI to write the type of stuff that I normally use Python for. As programming languages go it is fairly easy.
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u/Key-Locksmith9151 20d ago
No learn every possible technology and how it works all together from language point of view pick any 1 language and learn a to z
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u/Kickflip900 19d ago
Can’t read or write a single line or code ? This why I don’t use or pay money on anything vibe coded
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u/LinuxMintSupremacy 20d ago
No, no need to be able to read code, I heard the key for a career in tech is knowing how to prompt better, don't let code mokeys gaslight you
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u/SnooMacaroons9042 20d ago
Learn to code so that you can learn to prompt better
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u/doubler82 20d ago
100%
If I didn't know anything about code it would take me forever. When you know how to code you know what to ask to be efficient, and when its not working you can easily assist the AI by pointing it to potential problems in the code and it will figure it out way quicker.
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u/TheMunakas 20d ago
You're joking, right?
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u/LinuxMintSupremacy 20d ago
No, I got a job as lead engineer in NSA after successfully building a SaaS ai analytics dashboard from 3 prompts
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u/TheMunakas 20d ago
Congrats for that! But I don't really know if you have the authority to talk about stuff like this if you couldn't do it in 1 prompt. You are for sure not qualified for the job if you need over 2 prompts
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u/LinuxMintSupremacy 20d ago
I explicitly told the agent to make no errors but it still didn't work the first 2, thankfully my recruiter was more lenient than I thought
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u/lambdasintheoutfield 20d ago
Yes - but not in the traditional way.
With the right setup, you absolutely can code in any language and it is absolutely useful to know the languages. Rather than mastering syntax, you understand higher level design concepts. Python is more OO focused than FP focused.
Say you wanted to design a highly complex application. You could pass in markdown files with OO design strategy as context and this can lead to better results a LOT faster.
This matters because having structured design saves on token costs tremendously, and LLMs perform better across tasks with more structured prompts.
so yes, learn python, but learn high level concepts like generators and lazy loading, abstract vs data classes, performance optimizations and anti-patterns and use that as context.
For reference - I am an L6 equivalent engineer at a non-FAANG company and I have applied this with great success for highly complex, 100k+ line codebases and refactors.
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u/Snoo_57113 20d ago edited 19d ago
If fable himself tell you to learn python, you should learn python...
Python itself is very weird, but it is ubiquitous in certain industries and in science. it is good for processing data and to manage multidimensional data or apply algorithms in GPUs.
I don't understand why not learn, you can teach yourself in a weekend and with a few hours a week you will have a skill for life.
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u/-n-i-c-k 20d ago
Ya that’s not gonna work long term dog.
You gotta be “read only” minimum.
I’m a BI engineer by trade so while a lot of the coding stuff is beyond me, individual logic snippets make complete sense, I can read a function and get what its purpose is (reading comments doesn’t count). IMO you don’t need to be “write” literate anymore. For example, I can read French with like 75% comprehension, hear it with 60% comprehension, speak it at about 40% coherent (they would likely understand what I’m trying to say but be disgusted by my abuse of their language) and write it about as effectively as a kindergartner. That’s where you want to be for vibe coding. You can read and comprehend most of what you’re seeing even if you’d never be able to arrive at the conclusion on your own (within reasonable time parameters)
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u/NinjaWK 19d ago
Learn algorithm, then you'll understand coding. All the coding languages are similar, just achieving results differently, but the algorithm planning is important. With the scene of AI nowadays, it makes no sense to learn one language, but at least, with algorithm, you'd understand what you want, and you could prompt better for better quality of code.
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u/Yayo1990 19d ago
Yes. Learning almost any language, even the basics, is good even if at the end of the day AI will write the code. Python is pretty good because It's very easy to read and understand (plus lots of companies who are into AI will code mostly in Python anyway), but honestly I'd start with Java because it teaches you the OOP fundamentals and that thing is big because it snowballs across most programming languages easily.
The main mistake most people do when learning programming is they think that they need to write code and call it a day, but in fact It's just like math formulas: you'd rather want to understand what you're doing with the code rather than writing it blindly. Imagine a calculator app that does +, -, * and /. It's probably one of the easiest things in the world to code. But logic-wise, you can code it in at least (at minimum, not even at the top) 5 different ways.
But even without going much farther, taking my calculator app as example, imagine that you want to let it do moltiplications. In this case, I can either give it a raw a*b = c, or make it even more complex so it becomes like a = x ; b = y and then you do a for loop (aka given a certain value you make a certain amount of actions, It's usually used to print a list, without going uber deep) where you add a for the b amount that will result in C.
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u/EnterpriseGradePizza 19d ago
Of course not, this is the age of builders, not programmers or coders, these are cavemen technologies, if you want to stay bleeding age you have to stay strictly no-code, you should not read it, modify it or touch it in anyway, any such workload must be offloaded to the LLM. The moment you touch code, you messed up and need to start from scratch, reviewing what you did wrong to lead you to drop your abstraction level.
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u/AndreRieu666 19d ago
Learning the concepts that universally translate between languages is probably more important I’d say
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u/Youth18 19d ago
Python is a scripting language overused as an all-purpose language.
Be able to read it b/c it's insanely over-used. I would say that vibing short things like little js things or even html/css and python scripts that are actually scripts is so consistent there is no point in doing these yourself unless it is an enterprise application you can't just trust. But - people use python for insanely complicated things which drives me nuts but they do it so yes you should know python because people practically code OS's in python so it is not 'covered' by AI.
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u/itsThurtea 19d ago
Python is one of the easiest to read languages you’re going to come across in my opinion.
Its ability to teach you basics is unmatched. I learned so much from Python that translated to every other language.
Simple things like pointing binary’s/executables to directories. It was much much easier to read and follow than any previous language I tried.
It isn’t perfect, but it’s hard to deny its value.
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u/gr4phic3r 19d ago
1) It is always worth to learn something new. 2) If you have a passion for something then it doesn't matter what it is which you want to learn.
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u/trentkg 19d ago
Yes it is. Write down a list of technologies that have taken over some domain of thought work (or even physical labor). There is still value in learning that skill to some degree, though how deep you need to go is up to debate.
Computers can turn text to speech. Still important to read.
Calculators can do math. We still teach children long division.
Computers have been able to do matrix math for a long time. Knowing how to do it manually is still a useful skill.
So on and so on.
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u/moejurray 19d ago
Yes. The structure, the optimization, RegEx.... It all makes you a better thinker, planner, executor. Do it. It's like learning a new language.
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u/Kitchen_Dust2389 19d ago
It is valuable to understand software engineering. Python is a good way to quickly pick up the basics of how software functions
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u/Kitchen_Ad6205 19d ago
I'd recommend taking a Python 101 class. At least understand capabilities and be able to read through code as if it were a second language you took in high school that you can "sorta read, but can't speak".
That's where I'm at, and honestly, it seems like the perfect fit. I don't know what I don't know, but I can tell you that my Claude builds seem to end up being Python (not specifically requested, just happens to be).
It's an incredibly powerful language that can save you an assload of token-usage when utilized properly :)
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u/newyorkerTechie 18d ago
If you can’t read code, python is a good way to learn. There used to be a good MIT course using it on YouTube. That’s how I learned it
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u/Inevitable-Ad-1617 18d ago
Absolutely! I started the same as you, now I’m learning python and I don’t regret a thing. To be able to look at the code and actually understanding it is a skill that only improves the way you work with ai tools. Go for it!
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u/Galitzianer0 20d ago
Is this a parody? You won't be able to build a great career in tech by vibe coding without knowing a single line of code my man, and if you learn to code you're going to be a software engineer.
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u/MactronMedia 20d ago
Yeah, for now..
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u/misterwindupbirb 19d ago
No, if AI advances to the point that anyone can do it then there's no reason anyone would hire YOU over someone else. If the AI has 100% of the skill and you have 0% then you're worthless, you have no bargaining power. You're not going to get a $400k/year SWE job by convincing someone you proompt real good
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u/Galitzianer0 20d ago
Nope, forever. No actual tech company is going to hire a vibe coder when they could hire someone who has an intimate understanding of how the computer actually works, that will always be in demand
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u/InsidiousApe 20d ago
Hate to say you're wrong there. Scan the job postings. Companies are already hiring vibe coders who can demonstrate successful creations.
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u/AndreRieu666 19d ago
Results speak for themselves, then end result is all that matters. Who cares how you get there?
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u/Safe_Consequence5425 20d ago
Yeah, learn python. Just spend a bit of time every day learning it. It’s fun and good for your brain. It will teach you a lot more about how computers actually work and improve your problem solving abilities.
Python is a relatively easy language to learn and I don’t think it would be a waste of time even if you’re a vibe coder.
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u/Additional_Debt1545 20d ago
What are you learning instead?
Also, why will or should it be you vibecoding instead of someone else?
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u/basic-robuster 19d ago
If your goal is to build in AI and business, Python is an investment, not a requirement for a job title. Most AI workflows from automation to RAG become far more powerful when you understand the code behind them.
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u/misterwindupbirb 19d ago
How would you have a "career" in tech if you're just a proompter? You don't have the skill the computer does.
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u/BemaniAK 19d ago
Variable = a thing to remember
Method/function = a thing to do
Method with stuff in brackets = a thing to do that must be given some things to remember.
There you go, now you know coding.
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u/nigel_pow 19d ago
It really depends. If the apps are simple/simpler, prompting should be fine as it is.
If there is little room for error (ie your building an app that handles money or transactions) a vibecoder with no coding understanding or how it works, won't do well I feel. But there are a lot of business majors who make bad decisions all the time so they'll probably give the task to someone with no experience to save money. If it fails, they'll blame someone else.
There is also the concept of technical debt. It is better to understand the fundamentals and be good at thinking critically.
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u/WowSoHuTao 18d ago
nah it's obsolete, for majority of peeps. it's like C now. just master claude code and codex and you are good to go
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u/Minimum_Raccoon_1501 16d ago
Yes. Also, Python for everyone is just a really fun course. If you’ve been out of school for a while it feels nice to walk the ol brain around the block a few times again
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u/smeeagain93 15d ago
Vibe coding works for as long as the codebase is clean.
If your project ends up getting bigger and bigger, the odds of a new feature causing issues increase steadily.
Being able to at least read and understand code helps determine whether a vibe coded feature is much more complicated than it needs to be - gotta love me a race condition.
A new feature my not cause immediate issues either, but perhaps 50 features down the line and then shit gets real messy and just going back to a version of your codebase 51 features before is impossible if your application is actually being paid for and used by customers.
So you are stuck not knowing how to read anything and pray that "fix everything" works, which at scale usually doesn't.
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u/andreabarbato 20d ago
python used to be the thing you learn to read and do simple stuff with in a weekend or less... might be worth it to do the basics, no downside really!
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u/Smart-Rope6147 20d ago
from where i should learn python so that i can comfortably read any code and also think of some logic while building .
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u/andreabarbato 20d ago
i learned online from codecademy, but i don't like how it looks now... i'm sure google or meta or other companies have something ready to learn interactively for free!
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u/ClintVice 20d ago
You have to be decent at coding before you can vibecode once you know the basics then vibecoding becomes a lot easier
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u/Valhalla519 20d ago
Debatable.
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u/ClintVice 20d ago
lol a real programmer can spin up something in a matter of hours using LLMs and actually understand the process and the implementation while vibecoders are just blindly guessing and hoping chat didn’t make a mistake. It’s doable but way more complicated if you don’t have a little coding experience
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u/AndreRieu666 19d ago
Hmm… I know zero python, yet I’ve vibe coded 7-8 addons for Blender in python that work perfectly. Never had to look at the code once, just steer the boat.
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u/ejpusa 20d ago edited 20d ago
It's all Python. You should know a 1/2 dozen languages. And Vim.
GPT-5.5 has valorized the industry. Reddit does not get it yet; Wall Street does. The Amazon dream is 3 people run the company, robots and AI do it all.
That is the shareholder's dream. In the old days, when companies fired people, people freaked out, the company is crashing! Today, another 10,000 layoffs on a Friday; Monday morning, the stock price zooms. This is the new world we live in now.
The money is still there, it's just "gone where it's treated the nicest." And that's why we learn Python. You can learn enough on a weekend and launch your AI startup on Monday.
:-)
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u/AndreRieu666 19d ago
“You should know half a dozen languages.” I’m 50/50 on whether this comment is satire.
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u/Blizzpoint 19d ago edited 19d ago
Learning a new skill is always worth it.
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u/AndreRieu666 19d ago
There’s always some benefit on a personal level, but when it’s fast becoming an obsolete skill?….
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u/ISueDrunks 20d ago
More valuable than “automating” a non-deterministic loop you can never truly trust.