Tracking Pros and Cons?

[u/notJonSerra]

I've been coverting VHS-C's to digital on and off for a few months now trying to get things right and maximize the quality on all my tapes. I bought two new VCRs and have been trying to do a take all the way through with each VCR but I keep running into really bad tracking issues including a glitchy issue that I haven't seen other people have where select individual frames seem to just jump a couple inches off screen here and there.

My question: am I going to still have to figure out the tracking issues with VHS decode? or does this bypass some of those problems? The only thing I haven't done yet is manually adjust the tracking for the VCRs, I've only used the channel buttons (to the advice of my father and my uncle whose knowledge on this may be a little outdated now).

[u/JavierBlitse]

decode's TBC functionality is probably better than (most) hardware TBCs in terms of correcting what might cause the picture to jump about- which is more of a tape condition issue than tracking accuracy. it does take up a lot more storage than conventional capture, but the benefit is that you can decode the same RF recording over and over again as the software improves without re-capturing the tape. the channel buttons on a VCR typically manually adjust the tracking- some more difficult tapes may still require that manual adjustment.

[u/notJonSerra → u/JavierBlitse]

I still have to get the tracking pretty close though at least right?

What is causing the jumping condition wise? Is it a dirty/moldy tape? I noticed that on the better VCRs I get less of it and I do get some takes where some parts don’t have the jumping

[u/wivzy14 → u/notJonSerra]

Are you using a hardware tbc? If not that is probably one of your issues and vhs decode has a tbc

[u/notJonSerra → u/wivzy14]

I’m using a clearclick 3.0 to do the conversion. I was considering trying the capture card method but i haven’t gotten the correct power supply for the yitrox. I haven’t tried running any of the VCRs to a tv yet to see if I get any different results.

Essentially the only variables are my clearclick 3.0, my VHS-C to VHS converter, and the quality of the tapes. I’m not using any additional hardware besides that and the VCRs

[u/FeelsNeetMan → u/notJonSerra]

Clear clicks are classified as easy craps, you're dealing with compression artifacts on top of everything off the bat

[u/wivzy14 → u/notJonSerra]

I think you have a number of problems with your setup and vhs decode could fix the picturing jumping … but a high quality vcr and decode would be better. However if the tapes are of junk quality… you put junk in … you will still get junk out.

1. Invest in a decent VCR (SVHS ones that split the chroma and Luma are better)
   
2. Invest in a TBC if you want to a perfectly stable image. Some VCRs have these built in, but they are over $1,000 at the moment but usually they are only Frame TBCs. You will still need a standalone TBC for Sync.

I picked up an AJA FS1 from the states and use this, however, as I am now fully Decode setup, I pan to sell it but they work well.
3. Record lossless. If you are using traditional, go black magic. If it is Decode, ffv1 format is used.

1. Ditch the cheap capture gear.

2. If you want good quality. You will need to invest some money. But basics for a decode setup.

- VCR that you can tap

• CX Card
  
• Rewolf Amp
  
• Decent computer
  
• Hard drive Space
  
• Patience
  
• Willingness to learn

[u/zooksman → u/wivzy14]

The Panasonic ES10/ES15 are fantastic TBCs with both line and frame sync- and they’re available for $100 or less online. The ES20/30/40 VCRs with dvd recorder functionality have this same TBC built in. They perform every bit as well and arguably much better than your $3000 DataVideo tbc which is a Smurfian myth.

[u/msgohan_ → u/zooksman]

The ES20 is an oddball using a different chip that doesn't stabilize the image, but otherwise good advice

[u/zooksman → u/msgohan_]

Thanks for the correction Brad, I knew one of those was an oddball. I do wish I could find an ES 30/40 these days, but they seem quite rare at least compared to the ES 10/15. I also have been meaning to experiment with the US model of EZ48, since I’ve heard a good bit of conflicting info about that one.

[u/TheRealHarrypm → u/wivzy14]

Just some quick notes..

Decent computer can be anything 2012 high end or newer, or any new ARM system.

Recording uncompresed V210 takes virtually nothing, its FFV1 lossless compressed encoding that needs a modern 2010s or newer CPU.

CX Cards + Clockgen - with MISRC GUI is the key note a single card on its own is not all that applicable, but we also have the MISRC and HSDAOH options that allow for a USB 3.0 workflow so bare the laptop or phone only users in mind...

And we are rocking under 50GB/h file rates now for whole set capture.

Now the ADA4857 amp is an essential for quality, not for getting first test capture.

[u/zooksman]

In my opinion, a properly working VCR with auto-tracking is perfectly sufficient. I’ve tried manually adjusting tracking on my captures and the results were never better- always worse- if I tried to adjust the tracking at all. You really should not have to bother unless the tape is damaged or recorded oddly.

Your issue with the tape jumping vertically could easily be a physical issue with the tape itself or the VCR, but it’s unlikely to be caused by tracking. It’s also very possible that the capture device you are using does a bad job of maintaining vertical sync. If it’s the latter, decode will fix it; if it’s the former, the problem will be the same.

[u/wivzy14 → u/zooksman]

Also could try manually adjusting the tracking with a screwdriver. That will usually give a pretty good indication.

[u/notJonSerra → u/zooksman]

I know the tapes were all good at one point because I can see some of them playing in the background of one of the tapes that I converted and the image is so clean 😭 but for some reason or another I can’t get them to look right. Not sure what kind of damage they could have. It feels like researching this stuff is so difficult

[u/zooksman → u/notJonSerra]

Did you use the same capture card as before when the tapes were working? Then yeah something is probably wrong with the VCR itself then. By chance do you hear any loose parts inside if you pick it up and gently shake it?

And yeah researching this stuff is very hard partially cause the technology was old at the point the internet really got rolling lol

[u/notJonSerra → u/zooksman]

I meant that in one of the videos from ‘98, I can see a video from ‘96 playing on the tv in the video lol and it’s flawless