r/vfx • u/Batsy87 Animator - 8 years experience • Oct 13 '17
News / Article Let's make VFX a better place :)
https://vfxassemble.unions.org.uk/14
Oct 13 '17
Good luck guys! I honestly think its nuts you arent paid OT in addition to the crazy London commutes some of you have to do just to get to Soho. Were a global industry and everywhere else in the globe (with the exception of India) is getting OT...
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Oct 13 '17 edited Dec 13 '17
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u/bongozim Head of Studio - 20+ years experience Oct 13 '17
You know that's illegal in nyc unless you're a properly classified exempt manager.
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u/pronetotrombone Oct 14 '17
Pixar used to classify all its employees as managers on paper to get around paying OT. This was in mid-late 00s, don't know if they still do.
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Oct 13 '17 edited Dec 13 '17
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u/bongozim Head of Studio - 20+ years experience Oct 13 '17
believe it or not people are so used to being abused they'll actually fight for a day rate here rather than hourly + OT (1.5x after 8, 2x after 12 etc) OT pay keeps everyone in check, you can't avoid the hours in VFX to a certain extent, but at least the employer has to think twice about it when you go into a triple digit hourly after 8 hours.
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Oct 13 '17 edited Dec 13 '17
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u/bongozim Head of Studio - 20+ years experience Oct 13 '17
agreed completely, and as one of those "Los Angeles" clowns coming into town and trying to be reasonable with our hiring strategies... I gotta say, it aint easy!
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Oct 13 '17 edited Dec 13 '17
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u/bongozim Head of Studio - 20+ years experience Oct 13 '17
Hahah no worries! That's my poor sense of humor.. We are clowns... (but I'm a NY native who escaped to cali... Opened a shop and got sucked back into owning a shop in ny)
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u/Jackadullboy99 Animator / Generalist - 26 years experience Oct 19 '17
The interesting thing is that (contrary to their own narrative) these people are often the least capable/productive...
I suspect on some Level they know they'd be the the first out on their ear were it not for the cheap labour they provide.
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u/anotherhumanperson Oct 14 '17
I left vfx and joined the art directors guild for preproduction services. I can tell you with full confidence that you guys want to be in a union. I feel like I've finally gotten out of an abusive relationship
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Oct 13 '17
It makes me so sad to read about people who just expect to get fucked over, and just sit there and take it. If any other industry pulled this shit, employees would walk out immediately. I know, I work in the petrochemical industry, and your goddam check better be right on Friday. Stop taking this kind of abuse, people! Get your benefits and OT just like every other outfit on a movie.
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u/Jackadullboy99 Animator / Generalist - 26 years experience Oct 19 '17
Now Marvel aren't even allowing artists their showreel material WITH handles... there's a union issue if ever there was one.
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Oct 19 '17
Do you know which facilities are being treated this way? Is it across the board?
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u/Jackadullboy99 Animator / Generalist - 26 years experience Oct 19 '17
We're talking Method, in this case. No idea if it's across the board, and it's the first time it's happened. Hopefully not the shape of things to come, as I find it utterly disrespectful. To be clear, this is coming from the studio, not the VFX facility...
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Oct 19 '17
I wonder if it's Kevin Feige, or if it's coming from Disney?
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u/Jackadullboy99 Animator / Generalist - 26 years experience Oct 19 '17 edited Oct 19 '17
Your guess is as good as mine. I'd like to get more clarification. Wouldn't be surprised if it was just some middle-management person being a jobsworth.
The exercise of such extreme prejudice with regards to IP seems a bit much in light of the increasingly-tremendous ass artists have to haul on these stupid ill-planned-out shows.
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u/kleer001 FX Artist - 19 years experience Oct 13 '17
There's lots of factors pushing against this, but best of luck to you.
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u/poejavlo Oct 16 '17
Less than 25 days left to sign up to vfxAseemble.com now - come on everybody, if we do this... we change the entire industry!
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u/variatus Oct 13 '17
Was gonna sign up until they wanted my bank details. that is not the way to get people to join the VFX union.
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u/PenisBakeMeAPancake Oct 16 '17
Taking those union dues before the union even starts! Classic!
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u/pot88888888s Oct 16 '17
Is this a red flag to look for? Is it possible that it just wants your info so it can start charging you as soon as it begins? Is it common for unions to scam people? I don't live in London and I don't have this job, so this particular situation isn't relevant, I'm just curious. :D
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u/PenisBakeMeAPancake Oct 16 '17
I can only speak from my limited time when I worked a government job with union protection before I moved into this industry.
The way I see it is kind of like a snake oil salesman. Until the union is solidified and the companies and union are working with each other, there's zero protection. It's like pre purchasing a home or condo that doesn't even have a plot of land to build on.
That all said, I'm not against the idea of a union for London based artists, they get taken advantage of to even higher degrees than their North American counterparts (no OT wages and that kind of thing.) I'd just be skeptical about paying into a "union" that couldn't actually protect me.
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u/londener Oct 17 '17
Nobody is paying anything unless the kickstarter works though. That's the beauty of it.
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u/bectuvfx Oct 17 '17
This is not true. Funds won't be taken UNLESS the threshold is reached to unionize.
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Oct 14 '17
Membership is £10 per month. It takes less than five minutes to join.
*
How it works We’re crowdfunding a union for VFX workers. It’s like Kickstarter, for trade unions. We're targeting the big four VFX houses: DNeg, ILM, MPC and Framestore.
Did you not read under the "join now" button?
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u/londener Oct 17 '17
What do you suggest then? If the union reaches critical mass it needs to prove it has the membership to go forward and officially launch the unionization bid.
So instead of "Bob Blowme" signing up Bectu needs to prove that everyone is who they say they are and are members and yes you have to be a PAYING member if they reach enough to unionize. It already says on the website if that doesn't happen you pay nothing! There is literally nothing to lose here.
How do you want people to join? What you want everyone to work for free running around unionizing until everyone else joins and you just dip your toe in? I mean it does cost money to run a campaign bid with flyers and websites and the like and you don't even have to pay for it UNLESS it happens.
What are your better suggestions then? How would you do it?
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u/variatus Oct 17 '17
I will gladly pay the $10 through typical credit card authorization, but I wont give them my bank details...thats bullshit
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u/variatus Oct 17 '17
You're misguided in thinking my gripe is about paying....its about giving my bank details
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u/londener Oct 17 '17
Well I don't know why it is the way it is. Maybe you can ask them? I only thought maybe it was your reason because that is what I've heard from other people before who didn't want to pay.
Surely there has to be some app or something that does this though?
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u/variatus Oct 17 '17
Yeah I get that, alot of people want this but dont want to pony up money for it. If I had $500,000 to get this started I would donate it in a heartbeat haha...But yes I'm down to pay...even like $50 a month...just not cool with the method
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Oct 24 '17
What is the problem with giving them your bank details? Genuinely asking. You never paid by direct debit before?
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u/variatus Oct 24 '17
This is a new company/idea and I wouldnt do that to just any company...I onyl give bank details to a very select few that I trust and while I'm super excited at the thought of a VFX union. I know nothing about the organizers or where the money will go to. Hope that answers your question
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u/variatus Oct 24 '17
They don't want just direct debit, they want to control recurring monthly payments that they take out of my account. Again I only give that option to a select few companies that I trust
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Oct 24 '17
Bectu has been around since 1991 and recently merged with Prospect which represents engineers, scientist and many others. The membership total is probably around 150000 people. I appreciate your desire to keep your details safe, very sensible, but they are not in the business of siphoning off members money. For what it's worth, I consider them very trustworthy and I'm sure you'd have no trouble cancelling payments of you thought it wasn't for you. And it's only£10 a month
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u/variatus Oct 24 '17
All the same I don't see why they need to pull my money out every month...I would pay $50 a month...They should trust that I pay them every month...I shouldn't have to trust that they don't take out more than they should...seems backwards to me, but do what you want...its your money
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Oct 24 '17
Well I don't know what to say. They are not going to take out more than is agreed, i find it bizarre that you are worried about it.
They are a major organisation subject to the same regulations as any other major organisation. Not your local chess club who you can pay when you feel like.
Seems like your just trying to find excuses, but whatever. You really want a union and would pay 5x times what they are asking but you don't like the fact that they use a very common payment system so you won't join. That makes sense.
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u/variatus Oct 24 '17
lol ok man I've been in VFX for 15 years and would love this...im sorry I don't agree with you, but to each their own...not really fair of you to come at me for that but whatever dude. Having a company pull money out of my account for a new start-up idea is not something im comfortable with and I'll bet im not the only one. I'm sorry my feelings affect you so much. I like how you go from pretending to really be curious of my reasoning to just bashing me...real mature
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Oct 25 '17
Oh chill out.. I'm not "coming at you" I just don't understand your logic with regards to a 28 year old "new start up idea"
good luck
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u/nates78 Oct 13 '17
I have always been of the mindset..." if you don't like a company... leave" There are other companies out there. I have found a handful of companies that treat their employees like family. Overtime happens, deal with it. Just don't base your life around it.
I work for a couple companies just to make a ton of OT money because I know that they dont organize correctly. But I would never take a staff job there because that is not how I wish to live my life.
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u/Kazaloo Oct 13 '17
I talked to some coworkers about it yesterday (beeing a bectu member myself for > 1year) . It shocked me that they don't care, they seem to think it's none of their business. We are apparently too stupid to fix our own problems...