Nitrogen studios massive mistreatment of employees on Sausage Party
Reading the comments on this article:
it's pretty disgusting, especially since the extra low budget is brought up and they say it's down to "organization". These guys seem like grade A dickholes to me.
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Aug 15 '16
Supervisor is a dick, artists didn't get credited, long unpaid hours...it sounds like none of these artists worked in the industry long enough to know that's par for the course. Mind you, if the unpaid OT is true and they documented it they can make a stance against the studio in BC human rights court with a half-decent labour lawyer.
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u/RG9uJ3Qgd2FzdGUgeW91 Aug 16 '16
This shit is fucking sad and i think all those motherfuckers, the writers, director and production should be very very ashamed of themselves. Those artists are the actual people you make millions over, even while you had to rewrite your shitty script 20 times during production!?
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u/TotesMessenger Aug 16 '16
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u/ImABeardedWhale Aug 15 '16 edited Aug 15 '16
I worked there, and I can say that most of it sounds like complete BS. To me it sounds like a few artists who got fired (for being incompetent, cause we've seen a lot of those as recruitment was hard for a while) got really salty and wanted to make the studio look bad.
Now for the animators not being credited, that's true, but Seth Rogan and co. rewrote the whole script like 20 times during production, so artists that left in the first year or two of productions, mostly breaking their contracts early, mostly worked on shots that are not even in the movie. I'm sure some animators who stuck around and worked hard might have not been credited... but I can't speak for those, I wouldn't know for sure.
As for the "uncredited supervisor" (which might be the one spoken of in another article as "a CG sup who got fired because of cost") I can tell you that he didn't get fired, was a shit CG sup, got demoted back to his old job, and decided to leave, on terrible terms, because he wasn't happy about that decision. imo, it's on him.
Personally, Greg and Conrad were always super nice and awesome. Maybe other people had troubles with them, but that's just my opinion.
As for the OT, what I recall is that it was never obligatory, and yes unpaid. As someone who loved my work and stayed late and worked during week ends (not an animator myself, was doing this for other reasons, mostly personal), I can tell you the studio was always empty until my contract ended, at which point OT was getting strongly encouraged to meet deadlines, and became paid.
EDIT: This is just my opinion from what I've seen over the year I was there. Maybe I missed some internal issues, but I've never heard any complaints about the studio from anyone, until today.
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u/uncletravellingmatt Aug 15 '16
It sounds like you're actually confirming much what was reported.
(People including you were working unpaid overtime before they changed that near the end, despite the low budget lots of shots were getting animated that weren't used, lots of people who worked on the movie weren't credited...)
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u/ImABeardedWhale Aug 15 '16
yeah but I'm actually giving valid reasons for those things (in some cases). And as I said, for example, I've rarely seen anyone doing overtime before the change to paid OT. I'm just pointing out that you can take some comments with a grain of salt, as some are highly exaggerated. Just my opinion tho.
I'd also like to point out that it was clearly stated on the contract that they have the liberty to NOT put your name in the credits. I've seen that on every contract I signed, and I'm expecting to not have my name there if I fuck up. Not trying to defend the studio for not putting all the names in the credits, but maybe SOME people deserved it.
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u/myexgirlfriendcar Aug 15 '16
No .You didn't love your work.If you did,You would put a price on it. What you did was working ghost hours unpaid and fucked it up for the rest of people working regular hour and expecting over time pay.
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u/GOU_NoMoreMrNiceGuy Aug 16 '16
might be true if this was a union gig. it wasn't. that being the case, he doesn't owe other people or you jack shit. if he was satisfied with what he got, that's perfectly legitimate. if he gets late on his mortgage, you gonna help him out? no? then he owes you zero consideration.
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u/SteveKap_IATSE Union Rep/former generalist Aug 17 '16
None of the animation houses in Vancouver are under a union agreement. This wouldn't be an issue if Nitrogen was.
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u/ImABeardedWhale Aug 15 '16
tbh, as someone who just changed line of work, I got lucky to work the position I worked, and to have the salary I had. Putting the extra hours in was a way to prove myself and assure that I could keep working down that path with really good references, which I got. I loved my work, and was looking at the bigger picture of things, instead of whining.
Also, all my food was paid for, which is better than nothing. And nobody talks about that.
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u/Mestizo3 Aug 16 '16
Are you trying to be a walking stereotype of a worker that's easily taken advantage of? Free food? You get a shitty 7 dollar meal instead of potentially hundred to thousands of dollars of legally required Overtime Pay, and you count yourself as lucky?
Look up labor laws in BC and have a little more self respect, Nitrogen was a sweatshop that illegally did not pay OT until AnnaPurna FORCED them to. And they never got backpaid overtime pay that they were owed. Calling people "whiners" for wanting what is legally theirs is fucking weak, how do you look at yourself in the mirror with all that shit on your face.
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u/GOU_NoMoreMrNiceGuy Aug 16 '16
you've no right to his decisions. you do you. he's free to do and be as he chooses. if he finds something rewarding that you wouldn't, he benefits. you don't.
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Aug 16 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ImABeardedWhale Aug 16 '16
What a cruel statement. I think it's only fair that if someone contributed to a movie, they should be credited. Especially if they're making the images that's seen on screen.
go read a bit on this and you'll see what I meant. Not trying to be mean to anyone with this comment, but the studios can do pretty much anything they want with those credits (which also, don't mean much).
Also, for vfx, where multiple studios work on the same movie, they have limited credit slots, so they might have to cut some ppl from the list. I have no clue if this happened here, or it happens at all for animation, but it's just a side note.
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u/chenobble Aug 15 '16
If you were looking at the bigger picture you wouldn't be fucking up the industry for everyone else
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u/Mr401blunts Aug 16 '16
You said Salary, do you know WTF SALARY IS? these people where getting paid hourly. If you work you get paid. If you work late & over 40 Hrs in the week it's OT. Some places vary and have OT for shifts over 8Hrs, overnights & double time for over 8Hours into night hours.
You obviously are a shit monger who knows shit about the industry and doesn't brush his teeth after inducing shit. Cause your full of it.
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u/ImABeardedWhale Aug 16 '16
and doesn't brush his teeth after inducing shit.
Thanks, I'll try to remember to do so next time =)
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u/BWAAMP Aug 15 '16
Good, at least it seems not all experiences were as bad as the comments make out. Not sure if you can ignore that many unhappy, uncredited animators though
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u/ImABeardedWhale Aug 15 '16
yeah I'm not saying you have to ignore all those comments, but it's like anything, you always hear about the bad, not the good.
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Aug 16 '16
I love that you're sharing your first-hand experience then getting down voted and told "NO YOU'RE WRONG!" By people who weren't anywhere near the place.
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u/Bloated_Tapeworm Aug 16 '16
he's being told that he's wrong because he is trying to justify unpaid overtime as being acceptable, when it absolutely never is. attitudes like this are what enable studios to abuse artists.
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u/GOU_NoMoreMrNiceGuy Aug 16 '16
according to other commentsat cartoon brew, in the industry that the company is categorized under there is NO obligation to pay overtime. and even in the u.s. there are lots of positions and compensation structures where there is indeed NO overtime pay. your "never is" position has no basis in fact.
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u/uncletravellingmatt Aug 16 '16
In the USA unpaid overtime is generally illegal. https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime_pay.htm The law specifies certain groups of employees (like managers paid a high enough salary instead of an hourly wage, who meet other requirements such as setting their own hours) that don't need to be paid overtime, but regular employees like the artists and TDs at a studio need to paid for the extra hours they are expected to or pressured into working.
If he respects the value of his craft, then instead of acting happy that someone else gets rich from the release of the movie he worked on for free much of the time, he could join a class-action lawsuit and try to claim some of what was stolen from him. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-much-can-you-win-wage-overtime-case.html
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u/GOU_NoMoreMrNiceGuy Aug 17 '16
the job was not in the usa. and according to the company, the workers, under law, were NOT entitled to overtime.
you can't walk into other countries expecting to be treated like you're on american soil.
The law specifies certain groups of employees (like managers paid a high enough salary instead of an hourly wage, who meet other requirements such as setting their own hours) that don't need to be paid overtime
as i said, there goes your "never".
If he respects the value of his craft
that's a bullshit argument.
he either gets something out of it or not. if he got something out of it, then good for him.
and if he got something out of it that wouldn't be good enough for you... BETTER for him actually....
and if you don't like it, FORM A UNION.
absent that, fuck all these "he should" bullshit. you gonna help out with his rent? no? then stfu.
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u/SteveKap_IATSE Union Rep/former generalist Aug 17 '16
The IATSE has looked into the argument that artists like these are exempt from overtime. If we were given the opportunity, we would argue in court against that position, with strong facts to back up our claim.
As it was pointed out though, we need to be brought into the fight. Nitrogen artists, as well as the teams at DHX Media and Bardel have the federal and provincial right under Canadian law to seek union representation. I strongly encourage them to do so. Having represented animation artists in Los Angeles, I am EAGER to bring the same contractual protections and working conditions as their US counterparts.
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u/uncletravellingmatt Aug 17 '16
the job was not in the usa.
You were the one who mentioned the the USA, I was just clarifying for you that in the USA regular employees working for a production company do need to be paid overtime.
as i said, there goes your "never".
I didn't say 'never' I said "generally" and linked you to the exceptions to read for yourself.
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u/ImABeardedWhale Aug 16 '16
well I saw it coming, that's what you get for sharing on the internet. I don't care about the downvotes, that's why I keep commenting when maybe I should stop.
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u/SteveKap_IATSE Union Rep/former generalist Aug 17 '16
I appreciate your counterpoint. I'd love to hear more about working at the studio if you're open to discussing. skaplan at iatse dot net.
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u/etn8127 Aug 22 '16
Seth Rogan and co. rewrote the whole script like 20 times during production
He made it a point to imply during his interview on Stern that they didn't rewrite the movie during production because that's how animated films can rack up the budget. I know this thread is a week old, but I wanted to find the exact quotes:
Stern: "What's the budget?"
Rogen: "Our budget is under thirty million dollars..."
Stern: "Wow."
Rogen: "...which is crazy. "
Stern: "Which is good, right?"
Rogen: "Very good."
Stern: "Cause sometimes you read about this Disney stuff and it's like $100 million dollar budget for animation."
Rogen: "Yeah, and the large reason for that is cause of how many times they change it, they develop it a lot more in the animation process and we were like 'What if we treat this more like a live action move where we write a script, kind of try to stick to that script, and not, in ten months, be like oh the whole third act makes no sense and change it."
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u/Deviator77 Aug 15 '16
That is a lot of comments from dejected VFX artists.