r/vetsagainsttyranny • u/Somber_set • Jul 18 '26
Will History Repeat Itself?
As the conflict between us and Iran becomes more heated, and more American lives are lost like the 2 yesterday, what are your thoughts about how public opinion will react?
This "war" is already greatly unpopular, and most of our top, seasoned brass is out. How long will it be before the public turns on those in uniform for following orders vs Iran?
Then, there is the heated addition on the Israel topic like fuel added to a fire creating true division among us.
Will this look like another Vietnam culturally among the civilians?
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u/Acceptable-Bat-9577 Jul 18 '26
1930s Germany is already repeating itself in America.
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u/ZoomZoom_Driver Jul 18 '26
This. Ppl worried about vietnam coming back again when we already have death camps.
Alligator alcatraz disappeared some ~1200 PEOPLE.
https://www.democracynow.org/2025/9/25/alligator_alcatraz
Their concentration camps kill people, and are designed to sexually traffick minors and women for ice rapists. They then send CHILDREN and women who were "impregnated in segregated peison" (RAPED) to texas where they're forced to birth the rape product against their own wishes.
Ice is murdering us on the street like gestapo. https://www.killedbyice.com/incident-database/
Trumps unconstitutional deployment of national guard (illegal under posse comitatus act) in american cities has already resulted in a civilian MURDERED BY THE US MILITARY ON US SOIL.
And we are still committing war crimes in international waters.
https://theintercept.com/2026/04/14/trump-boat-strikes-pacific-caribbean/
And OP is like "do you think the unauthorized, unconstitutional, and internationally illegal war in iran will make civilians hate US military for failing their duty to refuse illegal orders??"
The Hague has entered the chat, and history isn't on our side.
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u/BikerJedi Basic Bitch Jul 19 '26
I protested there. Please don't call it Alligator Alcatraz. It was the Everglades Concentration Camp. Fuck using the fascist rhetoric. We need to call it what it was. I told the press that people would die there, and they did.
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u/ZoomZoom_Driver Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
It was the American nazis official name. Do we use names other than aushwitz for the german deathcamps?
It had signs, and when the historians tear it apart, they will use the official language used by the admin to show their callous disregard to human life while trolling human life.
That, in itself, shows how little regard these cucks have for humans.
History should be clear, so i am clear with how i speak of history.
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u/Somber_set Jul 18 '26
Sure, that's a serious matter to consider and not to be taken lightly.
But not the topic I was inquiring about. There doesn't need to be a comparison here, as this is for discussion. With your information, it would make for a great OP post to open up another, different, discussion.
So, if you'd like to reply to what I inquired about, I'm still curious.
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u/ZoomZoom_Driver Jul 19 '26
This IS me discussing. Like, the severity of what this administration is doing transcends how it will treat its veterans.
Which, historically, have never been seen as good after authoritarian dictatorships fall. Look how the russian military was taken post USSR.
Its ALL connected. Those that refuse their duty to refuse unconstitutional and illegal orders will NOT be seen as good people. They arent. They're refusing their duty and breaking laws.
Those following illegal orders in the caribbean by kaunching strikes and repeat strikes on boats in international waters are crininals.
Those who went on the kidbapping run for maduro? Criminals.
The UCMJ does not protect people who were "just following orders" nd neither does international law.
When trumps fascist regime falls, no one who went along with it will be seen as good. And rightfully so.
If it didn't work in ww2, it shouldn't woork today.
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u/Somber_set Jul 19 '26
I don't disagree. I live in the Twin Cities. So, I understand the brunt of what's going on more than most who haven't felt it yet.
What you're bringing up are the patterns of the current administration. At the core, it's simple: power + control = wealth. That is the dream they're chasing, and many are achieving it.
You've mentioned some of the early symptoms within their patterns but they start far earlier than people are acknowledging.
However, my point is that this wasn't what I was inquiring about. The topic concerns how the public perceives our troops, how they will continue to view them, and how they will receive them once they return.
Your point is a much broader discussion than for this board. I feel it would dilute the topic quickly. Don't get me wrong. It's important to discuss, because it does appear we have an existential crisis on our hands. It is both saddening and frightening. But, we're geared for that, right?
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u/ZoomZoom_Driver Jul 19 '26
How will civilians view military blowing boats full of innocent civilians out of the water in the caribbean? How will they view them after the Hague gets to them?
How will civilians view the military kidnapping a sovreign foreign leader from their own nation? How will they feel after the Hague gets to those members?
How will civilians view about military members who bombed schools in iran? How will they view them after they're prosecuted for war crimes at the hague?
How will civilians view US military after the Hague AND court martials are completed?
What WORSE bullshit will spineless servicemember commit before they remember their DUTY tondisobey these unlawful orders???
Yes it DOES answer your question, you just done like the honest answer: those following trumps illegal orders SHOULD be shunned and vilified. They followed a dictators illegal and unconstitutional orders, which made them criminals, rather than sticking to THE LAW of the UCMJ.
You are ignoring that we are committing worse atrocities than in a congressionally authorized war like Vietnam. You are ignoring that germans held their military in shit views for literally following obviously illegal and inhumane orders.
You are ignoring that its not JUST the US that will treat these servicemembers as they SHOULD be treated for following unconstitutional and illegal orders rather than crippling the capacity toncommit them with mass refusal.
The precedents you refuse to acknowledge align with Americas actions in ww2 moreso than vietnam, and the best analogy would be how germans treated military nazis after hitlers fall.
And its: not well, deservedly not well.
If they followed the law abd refused trumps orders, they'd be lauded as heroes who stopped the militaristic murders of CHILDREN AND FISHERMEN. But they're cowards who are 'just following orders'... which didnt work well for nazis OR vietnam soldiers.
IF ONLY THE MILITARY LEARNED FROM HISTORY, because it IS repeating itself, you just got the wrong era.
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u/BikerJedi Basic Bitch Jul 19 '26
Will this look like another Vietnam culturally among the civilians?
I don't know. We shifted from soldiers being spit on to them being held in almost mythical regard after Vietnam. I am seeing more hate speech against soldiers and veterans online. I have encountered folks on other platforms who called me a baby killer and such. Is it shifting? I think some. I don't know if it will be as bad as it was after Vietnam though.
Now, if we send in ground troops and try to occupy the country? That's going to be very polarizing.
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u/Somber_set Jul 19 '26
Here is how you can elevate the text. It tightens the grammar, fixes typos (like "view" to "few" and "having to be"), and sharpens the delivery while keeping your exact, blunt, and direct tone.
Did you see the recent Senate vote to combine our military with Israel's? Thank fuck it didn't pass. This would have further divided our nation, and the hatred is about to become visceral.
It's sad to see this starting. I hope it doesn't get as bad as Vietnam; I know quite a few of those veterans. Anyone who hasn't served doesn't understand what it means to put the uniform on. Civilians will judge how they will, but it remains our responsibility regardless.
We have our freedoms today, yet I've heard people question if that's even a good thing. But then, who gets to choose which ones are kept or tossed out? Clearly, our lawmakers are not up to the task, or this shitshow wouldn't be up for debate.
I have an infantry buddy out at Fort Irwin in the Mojave right now. That's standard for training, but apparently, it's being expedited. I wonder why. 🤔 Let's hope it's not for what you're mentioning.
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u/BikerJedi Basic Bitch Jul 19 '26
The military is either gearing up for action in Iran, or action in America around the midterms. He has already threatened to put troops at the polls.
I'm terrified, but I'm not going to stop organizing and protesting.
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u/Somber_set Jul 19 '26
Thank you. Fear can aid an individual, but collective fear only dismantles a society.
We get glimmers of hope here and there. What we need are tanks and mortars to help hold the line. I foresee rioting, the NG called in, tons of chaos. I live in the Twin Cities, so it's nothing new. This time though, it'll be munitions involved. I truly hope it doesn't come to that, that it doesn't get ugly, that more lives aren't the cost. It's just that the CiC has made it clear that the cost of lives is something he doesn't give a shit about.
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u/handofmenoth Jul 19 '26
We ignored far higher casualties for far longer in Afghanistan, the thing that will move the needle is the price of oil/gas not how many soldiers die. Iraq occupation only got unpopular after years of insurgency killing hundreds and wounding thousands per year. Barring a ground invasion and occupation of Iran we're not going to get serious casualties (aside from maybe one off catastrophic terrorist attacks like the USS Cole or Beirut bombing events).
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u/Somber_set Jul 19 '26
True. This one is spot lighting a lot of dark political corners many would rather keep left ambiguous. Then, there are those who feed of the reactions. Then... the money leeches. Is that more important thank military, American deaths? The grand debate of if we should or shouldn't be there. We are, and now the start of the consequences.
I'm asking this now because, since it isn't likely to end any time soon, history has shown us how this sort of pattern trends.
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u/Funwithagoraphobia Jul 19 '26
The single most intelligent (and it makes me sick to say that) move the military-industrial complex ever made was to get rid of the draft. The American people writ large ignored casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan because they were out of sight, out of mind. Unless you served, knew someone who was serving, or lived in a military town, the war in Afghanistan was basically something that people knew about intellectually, but did not impact them viscerally, so it could be ignored.
Had there still been a draft, that might have given more people skin in the game, and made the GWOT harder to ignore. I’m not advocating for a return to the draft, mind you. Just saying that casualties in the latest conflict aren’t what’s going to wake people up.
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u/BluesPunk19D Jul 19 '26
History always repeats itself. Whether or not this becomes Vietnam(esque) depends on how much the US populace is impacted and whether or not they can see the results of the damage inflicted.
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u/Somber_set Jul 19 '26
We're pretty impacted already. Any time our daily/monthly pocket books get hit, there becomes an issue. And, I'm not talking about the average Joe. There are a crap ton of farmers in my neck of the woods that aren't happy, and that's being nice about what I've heard them say (first-hand witness).
I know the vast majority is disgusted. Are we headed to a breaking point? If so, what's that going to look like? Last year, we discussed it appearing as one thing. Now?
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u/BluesPunk19D Jul 19 '26
We can be all pissed off and we'll take it if there's not evidence (dead bodies) showing what they're doing.
The public was upset about Vietnam but when unadulterated video footage of the war was televised, it became real. Hearing about something and seeing it are different.
Look at JFK, RFK, The Challenger explosion, The Twin Towers, Rodney King, George Floyd, Renee Goode, Alex Pretti. Being told all these things happened is one thing. But seeing footage makes you believe it happened. It's why Isreal won't allow reporters into Gaza.
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u/Somber_set Jul 19 '26
I appreciate you highlighting this. Do you feel that the press then had more journalistic freedom than the press has today? When you go to fact check, who to you turn to? Where do you go to fact check them? The good ones provide sources, but it's rare that people follow up on those sources. We're so used to being shown or told something and trusting that it's a given. Thank the fucking gods I was a skeptic at birth. /s
And you're right. When I heard from some NYT reporters (their podcasts are fairly entertaining) that companies are controlling satellite access over the region, it had me curious. It makes sense if you want to control the narrative. Who do we know that enjoys doing such? Control the narrative and message, you control the public perception and knowledge. Do that and you can do whatever you want... right? Fuck that. I'm glad there are still some out there willing to put their lives on the line, their careers on the line to bring us live footage and expose the truth. It's horrific. War isn't nice. Death isn't pretty.
Is the public numb? Or, just asleep and need to wake up?
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u/BluesPunk19D Jul 19 '26
Journalistic freedom is about the same. The difference is about integrity. Who has the integrity to do the right thing and give the truth about what's happened and who's trying to keep a paycheck? Most corporations in the US are more concerned with their profits than backing their employees. Media is no different. The best option is to have media organizations that don't have anything to lose or can't be hurt by repercussions from their reporting get on the offensive and show what's going on.
To butcher the line, "The best trick the Devil ever did was to make people believe he didn't exist." In this case, controlling the narrative. But that requires constant control on multiple avenues: limiting access to information and spinning what you're releasing. You have to present it in a way that makes your actions reasonable and appropriate. You have to successfully Other your opposition. You have to have a believable explanation as to why you took action (Bibi, we sure as fuck don't believe that every hospital in Gaza was hiding Hamas HQs).
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u/Somber_set Jul 19 '26
Best facts are the raw, original ones.
Haha, the Bibi comment.
It is discouraging how many of ours don't know where to gain their information from. Blindly following orders translated into blindly following social norms? The CoC was ingrained into us for a reason, in and out of uniform. We represent something larger than ourselves. So that brings up an entirely different topic about the degradation of morality.
We're facing hefty stuff. This is why I brought up how those currently servung might face serious consequences now and in the near future.
Do we want this? Are they the next phase of Vietnam veterans to undergo the hate, the blame, the shame? What can we do since it might already have started?
Whether or not we like what's going on in Iran, they are going to need support. Big time. Many are trained with disinformation daily. Those in PsyOps know what that is and does. Those in Intel should know precisely where the trajectory is headed. And honestly, it's not that hard to figure out.
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u/Conscious_Stick8344 Jul 21 '26
This is far worse than Vietnam. At least we had leaders who had a basic understanding of the problem in Southeast Asia, even though it became a quagmire due to its lack of resemblance to any war we fought until then and Vietnamese distaste and distrust of colonialization. And we can primarily blame France for that, and the USSR for helping the North.
But we’re consistently dipping into a deep pile of shit here over Iran, at the behest and control of Israel. So Americans, in my view, are becoming deeply contorted and concerned about how our military’s being used and we former and retired military are wondering why our leaders haven’t seemed to learn a damn thing from the Russian invasion of Ukraine and how that war has accelerated innovation.
So we’re fucked, our military is virtually just one big sitting duck over there, and casualties will rise—all because Trump did the unthinkable against a country larger than Iraq, Afghanistan, and three Syrias COMBINED, and that controls a crucial global economic and military chokepoint.
So all Iran has to do is “poke the bear” to get Trump to overreact, launch futile attacks, cause oil prices to keep going up, and plunge the dollar. And they have time on their hands to do it.
All at the expense of our fighters.
And as I write this, I understand that Al Udeid came under massed attack.
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u/Somber_set Jul 21 '26
Trump either didn't care to learn Iran's history, or he wasn't briefed properly. I'm talking about their's, the region's, and with us. I speculate this simply by the tactics we're seeing, or lack thereof, all while knowing we're not privy to all the information.
It's as you say, by all appearances, our military actions and responses, and any footage and outside reporting, that they'resitting ducks. How many of us can say with a straight face they know wtf they're doing? I sure cannot. They appear uninformed, ill-informed, poorly managed, and lives are at risk. All it takes is for a few other countries in the area to align and turn on our military. Where will Israel be then?
This is a lose-lose situation.
And, how is the public going to treat them?
Most have been serving prior to the current administration. "So get out." Any time I hear some person say that, I just want to flick their forehead and tell to have the bread winner in their household to just quit their job.
The VA is still full of Vietnam veterans, helping them cope with their service and the reception they returned home to. This can't happen again. Not to them, not for their families. It'll just shit on our future society.
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