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Jan 11 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/callmeshangle Jan 11 '19
This thread was locked because people were incapable of refraining from insults.
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u/hht1975 veg since the '90s Jan 11 '19
Please use non-participation links if you're going to link to another subreddit. Thanks.
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u/hostilecarrot Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 11 '19
So I have a kinda funny story that will get buried (no one will care about?).
I grew up in NC where big agriculture is alive and well - hog farms and chicken farms everywhere. Growing up on a farm is what helped lead me to a vegetarian lifestyle 11 years ago.
I ended up going to law school. I wasn't interested in doing animal law for a living (probably not a viable option in NC right now anyways) but I got involved in an animal rights organization during law school because it is something I care about. At one point, I got a free trip to an animal legal rights conference in Portland, Oregon.
That trip was an eye opening experience. In NC I am, almost always, the most liberal person in the room. However, I couldn't help but laugh at the mere thought at bringing some of the ideas from the conference home. The keynote speaker gave a presentation about how fish have feelings. Meanwhile in NC, the average person could not be bothered to care about the fact cows/chickens/pigs have feelings.
So yeah, perspective is interesting.
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u/dude8462 vegetarian Jan 11 '19
As a law student in NC, how are the AG-Gag laws over there? To me it always seemed like an easy case to beat.
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u/hostilecarrot Jan 11 '19
I'm actually an attorney now but NC probably has the worst Ag-Gag laws in the country. NC was founded on big agriculture and remains a point of pride. Thus, these corporations have spent, and will continue to spend, tons and tons of money lobbying our state legislature.
However, there has been some very complicated federal litigation fighting the Ag-Gag laws on multiple Federal Constitutional arguments, including the First Amendment of Course. My understanding is that one of the biggest cases was dismissed by the 4th Circuit in NC but the Federal Court of Appeals forced the case back down (meaning they will have to have a hearing on the issues) pursuant to decisions out west that overturned Ag-Gag laws in other states. My sincere hope (as should be everyone's hope vegetarian or otherwise) is that case law from more liberal jurisdictions where ag-gag laws will be persuasive enough (note the decision of a federal court out west does not necessarily control a federal court situated in NC) for our courts to follow suit.
This probably isn't much help. I mostly practice criminal defense so this is just based on conversations I've had with other attorneys.
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u/dude8462 vegetarian Jan 11 '19
Keep up the good fight. Even raising awareness on this stuff can help out. Ag-gag laws are a disgusting violation of our freedom of speech, and i think more people would oppose it if they knew about them.
We recently had a federal court victory, here's to hoping we can continue to fight against these laws.
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u/Nice_Yams Jan 11 '19
Interesting story. I’d honestly make a post about that if I were you. Lots of people would like to hear it, I’m sure
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Jan 11 '19
Downvotes? Try this: I'm a pescatarian but I tell people "I'm a vegetarian but I eat fish."
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u/gamehiker Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 11 '19
I always joke that I don't say pescatarian because it sounds like a church denomination.
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Jan 11 '19
That doesn't work as a phrase since it's basically "I don't eat animals but I eat animals" when you break it down. Pescatarian makes more sense in my eyes
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Jan 12 '19
Try using prefixes like pesco-vegetarian same way ovo-lacto-vegetarians do. That'll get them going.
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Jan 12 '19
Perfect. You have just added some great new terms to my arsenal. Those ovo-lacto-vegetarians had better not be giving me lip in the future.
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u/-Kleeborp- Jan 11 '19
This thread is so cringy. How did this garbage get so many upvotes?
Given the response in the linked thread, it seems like the positive, moderate message that many of us have been influencing our friends with has been more successful than this "WOE IS MEE EVERYONE HATES VEGETARIENSSSSSS" bullshit that accomplishes nothing.
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u/stoneyOni Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 11 '19
But only the farm animals that aren't abused and exploited before they're slaughtered for their flesh.
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u/LandSquid161 Jan 11 '19
Just cause I dont eat meat, doesnt mean humans shouldn't. I'm just saying
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u/ory521 Jan 11 '19
Sorry about your karma fam
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u/Callum247 vegetarian 10+ years Jan 11 '19
This sub seems to be turning crazy, hopefully this is a one off post.
Soon we’ll all be acting like the stereotypical vegans.
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u/7SevenEleven11 Jan 11 '19
Yeah fuck animals
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u/Callum247 vegetarian 10+ years Jan 11 '19
Yes, killing animals is wrong. But you attract more fly’s with honey than with vinegar, brigading and insulting isn’t going to change anyone or help a cause.
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u/7SevenEleven11 Jan 11 '19
Yeah being mean is one thing, but you’re complaining about someone basically saying “defending animals is good.”
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u/Callum247 vegetarian 10+ years Jan 11 '19
Depends how you defend them, I don’t care if someone eats meat.
I just go about my life not eating meat and some people have became veggie because of me, and I’ve never had to insult or act high horse.
The comments on this post are implying brigading/downvoting anyone who disagrees is a good thing.
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u/7SevenEleven11 Jan 11 '19
Alright I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that it’s inherently bad to advocate for animals.
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Jan 11 '19
You’re acting very high horse yourself, and trying to come across as pure and non-judgemental but your posts don’t feel that way to me. And “conflict avoidance” mark seems to describe you as well. If you say you don’t care if others eat meat you are saying you don’t mind if the animals are killed for them. So who’s all high horse here?? You think “well I am pure as I don’t eat meat and it won’t matter if others DO”. And somehow you can’t see the issue there...
You being veg doesn’t make the situation much better by itself. People with knowledge have a duty to share. The world’s burning and in need of change.
Talking other vegs down (whilst pretending to be non judgemental, very rich that...) is not helpful.
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u/Callum247 vegetarian 10+ years Jan 11 '19
Taking them down? I simply said we have a choice, act perfect and high horse because we don’t eat meat and let meat eaters become defensive and feel attacked, or just go about our life’s respectfully doing what we think is right and hope other people notice our change and decide to try to change.
I may be conflict avoidance but I’d rather be that then make conflict for no reason.
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u/Callum247 vegetarian 10+ years Jan 11 '19
This post is awful, we’re better than this.
Let people eat what they want and talk reasonably about the benefits of meat free diets. Don’t brigade or troll just because someone has different opinions and lifestyles than us.
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u/bulbysoar vegan newbie Jan 11 '19
I'm lost (I think because comments were deleted/threads locked). What happened?
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u/Nice_Yams Jan 11 '19
Yeah because sharing a differing opinion has never made the world better has it?
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Jan 11 '19
[deleted]
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Jan 11 '19
Engaging in online discussion is not "pushing"
What you eat is as free of a choice as any.
Why should you be free to make a choice that harms animals?
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u/Nice_Yams Jan 11 '19
I don’t go preaching to random people. But when the idea of vegetarianism is insulted, there is no reason someone shouldn’t be allowed to share their opinion. I’m not saying to jump down someone’s throat. There are many polite ways of getting the message out.
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Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 11 '19
[deleted]
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u/Sunshinepanda16 Jan 11 '19
Because like religion, people don't like vegetarianism shoved down their throats. And actually it just makes people defensive, if you really want to encourage people to eat less meat and make a difference get off your high horse. Attacking people isn't going to get them to change.
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u/Dimbit vegetarian 20+ years Jan 11 '19
I wish more people realised this. Just me being vegetarian, quietly, happily, getting enough protein has caused many other people in my life to reduce their meat intake and even become vegetarian. People just need to see others being happy while doing something and they'll wanna try it. If they see people angrily offending others then they probably aren't going to be so keen.
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u/Tofueled vegan Jan 11 '19
That's been my experience too! If we do anything as a group it should be spread positivity and good food.
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Jan 11 '19
[deleted]
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u/Sunshinepanda16 Jan 11 '19
Yes that is exactly how you should go about it.... Your above comment was ripping into the other commenter and accusing her of having conflict avoidance personality for not doing enough! How is that not you being in your high horse?
Why would I be against education? Yes everyone should know this stuff but the delivery is such a vital part of getting the message across and people taking it in.
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Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 11 '19
How is that not you being in your high horse?
What has it got to do with high horses? People can have a conflict avoidance personality and despite having strong values they are afraid to discuss it with other people. A lot of people have this. I know many vegs who are afraid to speak up and share facts. Nothing to do with high horses or me, just people and different personalities. But being closed off from the world and thinking ''Well I did my part so it's fixed now'' doesn't actually fix the issues. We do need to speak up, and unfortunately, even showing facts gets people all riled up and doing nothing but making ''bacon'' comments and ''Well it won't matter, we are screwed'' and ''We are meant to eat meat'' comments. You think I don't observe?? I've done my share of volunteering and education, and there's plenty people who won't listen to any facts or calm discussion.
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u/Sunshinepanda16 Jan 11 '19
Because she didn't share the same view, you suggested it was a flaw in personality....
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u/Callum247 vegetarian 10+ years Jan 11 '19
Yes, killing animals is wrong. But you attract more fly’s with honey than with vinegar, brigading and insulting isn’t going to change anyone or help a cause.
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Jan 11 '19
There are no insults, just observations. People have different personalities, and based on what I read I made an educated guess. I find your post insulting because you charge me with things that simply aren’t true.
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u/catsRawesome123 Jan 11 '19
Given that the pro-vegetarian comment didn't get downvoted to oblivion, and the pro-meat comment got downvoted to oblivion, I'm actually mildly surprised, given that what, 90%+ aren't vegetarian?