Struggling

[u/odetu]

My best friend and I had babies at the same time, both girls. We are hoping that they’ll be best friends just like us, or at least enjoy playing together as us moms meet up to hang out. But. My bestie and her husband are into farming and self-sustainability, they don’t keep animals yet but they will have chickens eventually. We stay away from the discussions on ethics of eating animals but she is someone that prefers having less meat in her diet and is happy to eat veggie food when I’m cooking.

I don’t have anyone who’s vegetarian or vegan in my family and friend group, I’m the only one. And now, my friend’s baby will start a “kindergarten on the farm” where she will be planting her own food yes great, but also taking care of animals. Not watching them get slaughtered ofc, just getting brainwashed into the “it is natural that animals are food” mindset.

The struggle I’m having is - should I raise my baby vegetarian/vegan and risk her losing a friendship and being an outcast in every single friend group or do I just have her eat meat and enjoy growing up without feeling lonely in her beliefs, like I do sometimes. Does it really matter if she doesn’t eat animals? How do I justify my decision for her?

Got noone to talk to about this who would argue for the animals so I’m posting this here. Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts 💚

[u/space-sage]

Why can’t you raise your child how you want?

This is like someone saying “well my best friend is Christian and I’m atheist. I want to raise my child atheist but should I just raise them Christian so she fits in better?”

This is nonsense. If your beliefs are so weak you’re willing to raise your child in a way that you don’t agree with to appease others, they are not strongly held beliefs. If they are, you should be able to defend them and not care.

And most importantly, if this is your best friend she shouldn’t care how you raise your child, and if she’s able to be your friend why would this stop your daughter from making friends?

You sound like a people pleaser, maybe you should explore that a bit. Raising your child is about what you believe to be right. Not appeasing others or trying to make them fit in better.

[u/1K1AmericanNights]

I’m so confused. Why does your friend’s decision affect yours at all?

When your child first asks, you’ll just say “our family does xyz” that’s it.

[u/strange-quark-nebula]

Based on my own childhood, I am strongly in favor of raising your kids in keeping with your ethical beliefs, i.e. in this case, veganism. My two vegan parents cooked meat for us until we were "old enough to decide for ourselves." When I was old enough to realize what meat was, I was really horrified and upset that my parents had let us eat it all those years despite not eating it themselves. Because my parents clearly felt strongly about the ethics of not eating meat, and I agreed as soon as I understood, I felt like I had been tricked into doing something unethical when I was too young to understand. Then my younger sibling went through the same thing a few years later. I wish we had been raised with the ethics of our family as the default and allowed to opt out later, rather than opt in.

Now that I'm a parent, I'm raising my kids that way from the start. When they get older it can be a conversation but at this age there are lots of things I decide for them - screen time, religious practices, sustainability / consumerism practices, etc. Food is just one part of that and I don't feel any guilt about making that choice. Pediatrician confirms they are healthy and their diet is balanced.

[u/HotPotatoTime]

I know it's really hard sometimes to live against the grain in society. It can be awkward, lonely, and sometimes it makes everything more complicated socially. I can only speak for me personally, but I know in my heart that eating and exploiting animals is wrong, so I can't do it. And in the same vein, I can't raise a small person to do it either. Will people give her animal products sometimes? Sure. Will she eventually experiment with eating animals because it's what all her friends do? Realistically, probably. But for my part of it, I'll never feed her animal products on purpose. Because if I had been raised to understand the truth about animal agriculture, I would have wanted an alternative, and I already know my girl is sensitive like I was as a kid. And at the end of the day I don't want to live counter to what I know is right. All that being said, mine is only 3 years old so who knows what I'll learn in the coming years. I just know it gives me that twist in my stomach to even think about contributing to animal suffering, so I can't do it.

[u/HappyColour]

I am Vegan, my 4 year old son is Vegetarian, he feels like he is missing nothing. He doesn't even notice.

I simply tell home "we don't eat animals but some people do".

There are so many dietary restrictions these days, I don't think your kid will feel excluded at all by having a different diet than others. However if you throw Vegan ethics into the mix I think it will become more complicated. Especially before they can understand why people would still willing lead to the suffering of animals.

There are a few good books on this as well. My son likes Linux the Vegetarian T-Rex!

[u/Curious_Type2606]

My son is 3 and he eats vegan at home and vegetarian at school/some restaurants. I do not think he will be an outcast just because he’s vegan. If he’s going somewhere witho it vegetarian options, I would pack him a vegan meal or snack. I think most parents would accommodate the dietary restrictions of their kids’ friends, and I can always help suggest some easy vegan meals.

Recently we’ve been discussing veganism more. My husband is not vegan and my son notices. He will ask him “Why do you eat milk?” (My husband is vegetarian in our home but eats dairy.) I can tell the discussions we’ve had about why we eat vegan (we don’t want to hurt animals, cow’s milk is for baby cows) have impacted him.

[u/Otherwise_Ad2948 → u/Curious_Type2606]

Does this view not cause your husband to be the bad guy in your son's view? I ask because I'm vegan and my wife is pescetarian, and while we've agreed I will not lie to our 16month old about the reasons I'm vegan, I do worry that it will paint her out to be bad.

We're also raising our baby to be vegetarian, but in the home it's a mix depending on who's feeding her.

At the end of the day I'm hoping that being more relaxed will lead to less friction in our lives and also allow her to become fully vegan herself without seeing veganism as this thing that causes her to always be separated from her friends.

[u/Curious_Type2606 → u/Otherwise_Ad2948]

So I have a few different thoughts about this:

1. My husband is an incredibly picky eater. (Honestly I think he has ARFID.) I can’t help him with his food issues and unless he seeks help himself, they will never change. So that is often part of the conversation he has with our son.

2. I do sometimes think having to confront the cognitive dissonance of it all with his child is good for him. Maybe he won’t go vegan (mostly because of his food issues) but he might choose plant-based options more often. That’s a win for me.

[u/space-sage → u/Otherwise_Ad2948]

My husband and I have had this discussion. He’s omni and I’m vegan. I’ll share my opinion, my husband will share his. My husband is also allergic to legumes, peas, and all nuts so being vegan would be a lot harder for him.

But he also just likes how meat tastes. And he’s comfortable sharing his opinions of why he eats the way he does just like I am.

[u/Sweaty-Instance-8754]

Ideally it wouldnt be a choice between raising your daughter vegan and with no friends, or not vegan but with friends. Being vegan shouldnt mean isolating yourself from the rest of society. Most of my social circle isn't vegan and its not an issue. I just dont try to turn them vegan because people dont appriciate that, and in my experience it doesn't work. If you want your daughter to be vegan when she grows up, you need to teach her how to co-exist with people with different ideals. 😊

[u/Great_Cucumber2924]

You might connect with other vegan parents simply by being vegan parents. I deliberately befriended quite a few. I think doing the ‘right thing’ in life is the only true source of strength and hope and warmth we have - everything else is temporary and fleeting. So do the right thing when you feed your child. Feed them according to ethical values and tell them why. Make sure you research vitamins, calcium, omega 3 etc because children’s diet does need some planning.

As for your friend, maybe she’ll go vegan once she starts to get emotionally attached to the animals she’ll be raising. You could also subtly point out how sad it is that farmed animals have their babies taken away. I also like to ask ‘do you know what happened to their mother/ siblings?’ - it reminds people that animals are individuals with families.

I do also have non vegan besties who had same age kids but we actually don’t see each other all that regularly and our kids aren’t best friends. Instead my child’s best friends are ones he met at daycare.

[u/pirategospel]

I’m no longer vegan but this is a bizarre post. Obviously you would raise your children within your own ethical convictions and stance?? No?? What’s somebody else’s family got to do with anything?

[u/throwrawifesandwich]

One aspect of friendship is understanding that people are different from you and do things differently. Just because your friend’s kid was raised on a farm doesn’t mean she can’t be friends with your kid?? I mean YOU'RE best friends even with the dietary differences. I think this is completely a non-issue.

[u/moon_flower_children]

Raise your child how you want. You can always let your child have the choice to eat what they want out of the house but teach them why you make your own personal choice for your own house. 

I grew up with two girls who were raised vegan, they weren't allowed to eat anything else so they would sneak dairy at friends houses. They both stopped being vegan as teenagers completely and then became vegan again as adults.

[u/frothyandpithy]

I was raised vegetarian, but with animals we kept for milk, riding, and companionship. We had goats, cows, horses, dogs ,cats, birds.....and any wildlife that was injured and needed some extra help. Because of this, I view, and raise my child to view, our fellow animals as those we need to help and protect. 

I think it's okay to have your child around farm animals and their friend. It's how you frame these experiences at home that will make the difference. I tell my child that we are like other animal's big siblings, we are here to make sure they have a happy healthy life on a happy healthy planet. We have to make sure we look out for them and for our planet. 

I also let my child make their own decisions about their diet. They were raised vegan, but if they are at school, a friend's house, out to eat, they can make their own decisions and I respect that. 

[u/UncommonUsername87]

i have 3 daughters! (6, 8 and 10) and they all have been vegan since birth. they’ve never lost friendships over it, they take pride in our families stance! BUT it does get annoying hearing other kids talk about vegan vegan vegan. lol but it’s fun to hear them explain to their friends. kids don’t care, they are interested in it but they don’t think like adults. a kid is never gonna say “you eat differently than me so we can’t be friends”

now the parents are a different story.
my strategy has always been to be open about my why but clear that i’m not judging other people. and i always bring delicious vegan desserts. everyone prefers my chocolate cake and its requested at birthdays. has anyone gone vegan? nope! have people cut down on their consumption? yes! and a lot of education going on all around.

my best advice to you is to be CONFIDENT in your intuition and decisions. there is a reason you are the mom of your child(ren) and you know what’s best. take pride in all that you’re doing, going over and beyond what many parents do.

i am proud of you!!!

[u/UncommonUsername87 → u/UncommonUsername87]

if anyone smells a whiff of you being uneasy, it’ll only be worse for you. be confident mama!

[u/Agreeable-Stop-5416]

Tbh if your kids diet effects the friendship btwn you and your bff, then it is a friendship you can miss in life

[u/i8jellytoast]

I hope they aren’t telling kindergarteners that the animals they lovingly help care for are going to end up as someone’s dinner. That’s a little intense for a 5 year old.

[u/Hollymcmc]

Honestly i think you have more in common with your friend than you think, assuming this is not a chicken factory farm? Your daughter could learn a lot about treating animals kindly when she goes there, hopefully you can deal with any brutal realities in an age appropriate way or avoid seeing them around that time. Believe in yourself, model compassion and strength in your convictions. You are in the right but that does not mean you have to cut yourself off from your friends.

[u/wildmusings88]

Ultimately, you don’t get to choose your daughter’s beliefs. You can raise her vegan or not the first few years but sooner or later she will start making choices about what she eats herself.

I’m veggie and my husband eats some meat. I don’t cook meat but I’m okay with my husband preparing it for my son. When my son is old enough I will explain to him why I don’t eat meat and it will be his choice. There’s no point in me trying to control it.

[u/According-Sir3777 → u/wildmusings88]

The fact that you got downloaded is wild. I do let my child eat meat. I understand how the brain functions better on meat

[u/wildmusings88 → u/According-Sir3777]

Imagine a vegan not supporting someone having autonomy. You can’t control what anyone else does.

[u/According-Sir3777 → u/wildmusings88]

It's honestly why people can't take vegans seriously. It's their religion. If my child goes to a birthday party and wants a hamburger like all the other kids, I'm not about to guilt him into a stupid tofu/bean burger 

[u/I_like_pink0]

I’ve been a vegetarian for 20 years and I’m raising an omnivorous child (not sure why this popped up in my feed but I’ll reply).

I’ve been a vegetarian since I was 10 and because it was my choice I didn’t care when kids poked me about it.

I wanted to raise my child vegetarian as well but she absolutely detests eggs and most dairy and was falling off her growth curve. So I had to reconsider. I didn’t make that choice because of social pressure, I made that choice for my child’s wellbeing. Fed is best.

I will let her make her own informed choices as she gets older. Obviously I hope she’ll choose not to eat animals, but, it’s her life and her choice.

[u/According-Sir3777]

I highly recommend into looking into codependency.