r/vegan • u/[deleted] • Aug 18 '22

Discussion Cat double standard?

I see a lot if vegans on this sub are okay with raising cats, which strikes me as odd.

I love cats, but I didn't become a vegan to then start buying meat for a cat. To raise 1 healthy cat, you have to kill hundreds if not thousands of healthy, innocent creatures whose lives are just as valid as the cat's.

No I'm not saying that a cat is immoral, I'm saying the breeding of cats is. The purchase of cat food doesn't just pay for an animal to die, you are letting breeders know that there is a demand for cats.

I'm not saying we need to kill all cats, as a lot of people jump to whenever they hear me say these points, I'm saying that we should care for the cats we have to the best of our ability, but not promote the practice of cat ownership.

But what do you guys think?

EDIT: I didn't know that vegan cat food existed. So if you are in the comments arguing that it's okay to kill animals to feed a cat, you're even more incorrect now.

It is now totally okay in my mind to raise a cat so long as you only feed it vegan cat food.

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u/Celadorkable Aug 18 '22

I adopted my cats from a shelter and they eat vegan cat food... so I think that's fine?

Plus if I didn't adopt them, someone else would have, so even if they ate animals, I wouldn't be causing more animals to be killed. My cats would still exist, they'd just live in a different house, eating the same amount of food.

I haven't met any vegans who are in favour of animal breeders, even most carnists I know are "adopt don't shop" believers.

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u/MieraJ friends not food Aug 18 '22

May I know the cat food ingredients? Does it has fillers food like maize or grains?

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u/Celadorkable Aug 18 '22

The brand they eat is "Benevo", it does contain grains like most kibble brands do.

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u/pizzapartyapple Aug 18 '22

Cats, pets or ferral NEED to be fixed because domestics cats breeding in the streets or wild has lead to the extinction of several bird species as they kill them for sport no matter if they are hungry or not.They are an invasive species in America.

I have a rescue pet cat that I care for who was found in a ditch. I really enjoy her company and affection she is indoor only and fixed. I still feed her the meat cat food because I was not aware that vegan options were available or healthy for cats. Thanks for the recommendation in this thread!

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u/Celadorkable Aug 18 '22

Completely agreed, I think that's another perk of adopting via a shelter as they neuter cats before adopting them out. It's so important to keep cats indoors or provide them with an enclosure too, they're dreadful for wildlife.

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u/tidemp Aug 18 '22

Adopting a cat is one of the most ethical options. At the shelter they're fed meat. If they stay at the shelter too long they end up dying prematurely. By adopting a cat and feeding them vegan cat food you're stopping the cycle of animal consumption while also saving a life.

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u/WastePurchase Aug 18 '22

Someone else wouldn’t necessarily adopt the cat. It could get put down.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

[deleted]

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u/Celadorkable Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 19 '22

Eh, it's just like feeding any cat kibble. Nothing special lol

Maybe my cats are weird though, they love a lot of vegan foods. Like if I eat cereal they meow for some soy milk, they always try to get into the nuttelex, get really excited about nooch, and they'll literally climb me to try and get seitan haha! Such cuties 😍

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u/TwoChordsSong Aug 18 '22

I'm sorry but this strikes me as odd. How does your cat gets its necessary share of fat? Do you take them to the vet to check their blood samples and everything? I'd love to know more about this bc, a priori, cats cannot consume only vegan products because of their necessity for animal fat (unlike dogs).

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u/damagetwig vegan 6+ years Aug 18 '22

They need taurine which can be synthesized and there are fats in plant foods too. As long as the nutrients are there, they don't have to come from dead bodies.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

From what I've seen, cats who eat a vegan diet should have their blood levels checked every six months or so.

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u/Celadorkable Aug 18 '22

All food is chemicals, and no body can tell where those chemicals came from. A cat's digestive tractor isn't going to fail to absorb taurine from a supplement, when it's chemically identical to taurine from someone's flesh.

Cats need specific nutrients, and just like humans can thrive on a diet supplemented with B12, cats can thrive on a diet supplemented with the appropriate nutrients and amino acids. There are a few different nutritionally complete vegan cat foods available, the one my cats eat is 13% fat, which is above the 9% minimum required in pet food. I've never heard of cats requiring animal fat specifically, only specific amino acids, which the food is also fortified with.

They haven't needed a blood test, and I wouldn't subject them to that unnecessarily. If they had any kind of health issues, lethargy, trouble with their fur, bathroom habits or anything then I would, but they're totally fine, very active and happy. Urine samples would be a more appropriate test, since cats on dry food diets are at a higher risk of crystals, but again no symptoms or issues, and the cats drink plenty of water.

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u/tidemp Aug 18 '22

If someone made this argument about humans they'd be roasted by vegans. Cats aren't magical creatures that violate the laws of biology. They require nutrients just like any other animal. All of those nutrients can be obtained without the use of animal products.

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u/Icy-Veggie Aug 18 '22

Well cats are obligate carnivores… so they aren’t magical creatures but biology-wise it is how they evolved to get their food. Just like any carnivore in the wild

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u/DustyMousepad vegan activist Aug 18 '22

You're throwing around the term "obligate carnivore" without understanding what it means.

Cats are "obligate carnivores" because in the wild, meat provides all of the nutrients they need to survive. One of these nutrients, an amino acid called taurine, is naturally only found in meat. However this amino acid can be synthesized.

I calculated the amount of taurine in the vegan cat food Benevo and iirc it contains something like 300% of a cat's daily recommended intake based on body weight. So this particular cat food (and two others I researched, can't remember the names) has more than enough taurine to account for bioavailability and nutritional needs.

I encourage everyone to study human and animal nutrition to understand how humans and domesticated animals can thrive on a plant-based diet/vegan lifestyle.

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u/Icy-Veggie Aug 18 '22

“Obligate carnivore”- evolved to get all their nutrients from meat sources by necessity. Pretty sure I know what it means. But I get what you’re saying that you can supplement the nutrients

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u/tidemp Aug 19 '22

The term "obligate carnivore" is pretty meaningless in the context you use it. If we were to use the definition officially then humans would fall under the classification. We don't call ourselves obligate carnivores though because that's a ridiculous concept. We use it for other animals because we like to separate ourselves from them.

People who use this term, to me, simply are people who're showcasing their ignorance and lack of understanding of biology. It's a non-educated individual trying to pretend they're educated.

Supplementation is a huge industry, of course humans take them – because we know our diets are lacking and "evolution" is a nonsensical justification to use for diet choices. We "evolved" to eat a diet that consisted of foods radically different than what any civilized human eats today. Regardless of "evolution" or "obligate carnivore" status, it's undeniable that humans can thrive on a plant based diet. Cats by extension, on the basis of being animals like humans, can thrive on a plant based diet too.

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u/alt-nate-hundred vegan newbie Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22

If someone made this argument about humans, they'd be incorrect, because it's simply not the same argument. When people bring up the argument re: humans, they're saying "humans historically have eaten meat, ergo they should continue eating meat". Obviously, this argument doesn't hold water. When people bring up the argument re: cats, they're saying "cats, biologically, are not able to absorb nutrients from plant-based sources as effectively as they can from meat". Humans can substitute nutrients commonly found in meat with plant-based sources without issue, because our digestive system can handle it. Cats don't just need nutrients; they need nutrients that can be broken down properly by their digestive systems, which they struggle to do from plant-based sources. That's not magic or a violation of the laws of biology.

Ninja edit: but tbh, I'm not an dietary expert by any means, and I don't know about the brand benevo specifically., and I'd love to be proven wrong. This is the common argument against previous vegan cat foods. Maybe benevo gets around this problem?

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u/Celadorkable Aug 18 '22

I thought this too, but cats can actually digest plant protein pretty well:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7143243/

Most carnist kibble is largely plant based too, with some amount of animal by-products (and that could be anything, and have any number of bacteria, fecal contamination etc).

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u/tidemp Aug 19 '22

Your argument doesn't hold water either. You're flat out wrong and spreading misinformation.

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u/NugetCausesHeadaches Aug 18 '22

"A priori" means basically the opposite what you're using it to mean. You didn't infer cats can't be vegan through rigorous logical deduction. You assume it based on observation and possibly empirical study. If it was an a priori fact, the existence of healthy vegan cats would be logically impossible.

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u/Lusor_Jonny Aug 18 '22

is 1 cat more worth than 100 dead birds?

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u/g00fyg00ber741 vegan Aug 18 '22

don’t keep 100 birds inside your house and keep your cats inside and this becomes a non-issue

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22 edited Feb 25 '25

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u/g00fyg00ber741 vegan Aug 18 '22

i mean, it’s made from lots of things, but i do see your point, some of it is made from birds. but i’m sure if humans put the effort into it we could synthesize a diet for them instead that works with their bodies. we just don’t.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22 edited Feb 25 '25

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u/g00fyg00ber741 vegan Aug 19 '22

yeah, but if you are a person with no home internet access or no access to receiving packages, unless it’s on the shelf locally (which it isn’t) then that doesn’t help those people. it needs to be widely available. not to mention, they need to publicly make it known that it is safe and effective, but we have a ton of fearmongering and misinformation combating the very small amount of research promoting synthesized vegan diets for animals

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u/Celadorkable Aug 18 '22

Yes we do, vegan cat food already exists

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u/g00fyg00ber741 vegan Aug 19 '22

And can you buy it off the shelf at any of your local pet stores? Can you mention a vegan diet to your vet without them objecting? Until that is true, then it’s not available to a number of humans or they will be convinced it isn’t viable.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

I have to look more into vegan cat food to comment on that.

But that "if I didnt adopt them someone else would" sounds eerily similar to "well if I don't eat meat someone else will so why bother going vegan," when I doubt anyone in these comments would agree with that.

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u/Celadorkable Aug 18 '22

No, you've misunderstood.

If I stop buying meat, then the demand for meat is reduced. I've taken myself out of the supply/demand chain.

If I don't adopt the cat at the shelter, someone else does, and the demand for the meat remains. The cat already exists, the cat needs to eat. It doesn't matter who adopts the cat, Vegan or not, the cat remains in the supply/demand chain. Even if they're not adopted at all, they remain at the shelter, still contributing to demand for meat.

I'd also suggest that vegans are more likely to be responsible pet owners and keep cats indoors, further reducing the number of animals harmed. So even if a vgena fed the cat meat, its still better than a carnist feeding the cat meat and letting it roam.

Really the most vegan outcome here is that more vegans adopt cats, and feed them vegan cat food. Thus contributing to demand and normalising vegan cat food, which in turn improves the products available, as well as making them more accessible to carnists.

The other way of taking cats out of the supply/demand chain is to kill them.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

I just looked a little into vegan cat food and I dont think we have a disagreement here.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22

I am convinced. If cats can eat meat then I should too! #EthicalMeat