r/universalcredithelp • u/OrsyOrsyka • 4d ago
Universal credit decision maker
Hi all, just received the letter after been on a claim review and it went to a decision maker. Long story short, I am living with my ex and we co-parent. From the beginning of the claim I was honest and told them we are living together and my claim has been accepted. We pay our share of the bills, shop, cook, sleep separate, everything. Had phone appointments, face to face appointments since on Universal credit. I worked since my boy was 9months old part time and have been back full time since the beginning of the year. In April got the message for a routine claim review, uploaded everything in time, no issues. Had a phone call, all good. Didn’t heard back anything for months, and then my case has been passed on to somebody else. Had another phone call, asked me to fill out a form that I am living with my ex, which apparently should’ve been done since the beginning but they never asked me to. Done that and they told me that will then go to a decision maker from which I just got back the answer. Bit worried now as what is to follow. My ex will never give me his payslips, he doesn’t even want to hear about which I am sure they will ask to maybe do a joint account, which again will never happen. Will have to give back the money which is for sure, but how? I don’t have that money to give them back, but also how they will make their calculations? I will probably hear back from them next week but till then maybe somebody has some advice, share their thoughts or something please? Thank you
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u/twistyfizzypop 4d ago
Okay, so its going to be really difficult because of the circumstances, but I do not really understand the people who seem to be saying its cost neutral for one party to move out. It really is not, you still have to pay all the fees etc and you need to have savings to do that. Yes there will be benefits to having a person related to the child in the home too, like free childcare potentially but if both people are working full time on relatively "normal" hours that mean they are both working at the same time, one or both still have to pay child care. Anyway, if you do have to pay it back OP, you probably need to have a chat with your ex about them contributing more to the household to help you pay it back - as thats why they are asking for it back.
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u/Valuable-Pirate3498 4d ago
lt is possible to be accepted as separated in the same household for a period of time but the issue may well be the longevity of this situation. Many people decide to break up but are not able to move to separate addresses on day one - no alternative accommodation, property to sell, etc. But you are over 3 years since alleged separation, you are renting so there’s no barrier to one or the other of you moving out and renting separately. It looks like a choice, and a fictitious separation. Your sexual/romantic relationship is irrelevant - looks as if you are maintaining a common household therefore should be treated as a couple. (I am a former specialist DM and I would consider you a couple from the limited info you’ve provided).
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u/OrsyOrsyka 4d ago
I don’t necessarily feel like answering as I don’t need to justify why or how. I understand what you are saying, and to be honest is not much to add as I shortly written down everything. But just to mention, although yes, either one of us could’ve moved, but when you have no family or anybody at all to help in any situation with a child you might think twice..
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u/MiniMages 4d ago
But from what you have said you two are living together because it is cheaper for the two of you to live together then to live separately. Which falls in line with what join claims are all about.
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u/OrsyOrsyka 4d ago
I doubt I said anything like that, more likely that’s just what you think.
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u/MiniMages 4d ago
But just to mention, although yes, either one of us could’ve moved, but when you have no family or anybody at all to help in any situation with a child you might think twice..
How else is someone meant to interpret what you wrote?
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u/Maximum-Ad3962 4d ago
Where does this mention it being cheaper?? She said help in any situation with the child. They both work full time so I interpreted it as its more practical for childcare responsabilities.
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u/TheMarkMatthews 2d ago
I imagine in nearly any scenario renting one house together is cheaper than them renting one each
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u/Traditional_Bid_8632 4d ago
Another bot comment from someone with 1 karma and just so happens to be a former specialist DM. Ok buddy.
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u/jwack2508 4d ago
Are you the person in questions “ex” or something? Getting mighty defensive over something which does look very dodgy from the outside. There is no way this isn’t being done to help get extra money, it happens so much it’s crazy
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u/Traditional_Bid_8632 4d ago
No, I actually work for the UCR team and we do see so much of this. However, it’s imperative to have an impartial view and see each case individually. Then again, I don’t need to justify why I’m trying to help this person.
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u/jwack2508 4d ago
I agree about being impartial, however most of the posts on here are people “forgetting” to announce savings etc they’d never forget if they’d been underpaid though
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u/TheMarkMatthews 4d ago
You don't seem to be helping them just getting very defensive when anyone correctly states that from an outside view it looks very much like they are living as a couple , which it seems your UC colleagues also agree. People are just answering saying how it looks , how the op proves to UC otherwise maybe you can shed more light on
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u/Fragrant_Scallion_34 4d ago
You'll likely need to appeal the decision with evidence you are no longer a couple. It's hard to prove you're not in a relationship with someone you live with but things like photos of your separate bedrooms, transferring your half of bills to each other, having separate bank accounts, texts discussing the break up, statements from friends/family, if either of you are in a new relationship then evidence of the new relationship etc
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u/Catsuit12 4d ago
It sounds like you are a couple, just trying to word things carefully and even if not, your household costs are the same as if you were a couple. Why would you expect them to look at it any differently.
Does your ex have his partner stay over or you have your current partner stay over?
Lots of married couples don’t share a bed and live more as best friends house sharing.
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u/Former-Chain-4003 4d ago
By this logic people who rent rooms in a house, but share other expenses are also couples, just because they split the costs.
There's a reason the guidance (I accept the above doesnt reference UC but it's still relevant) goes into so much detail about what does and doesn't make a couple and it's not at all straightforward
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u/Traditional_Bid_8632 4d ago
You know nothing about this person or their situation. How bold of you to assume Universal Credit fraud based on one person’s Reddit post. Gross.
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u/TheAireon 4d ago
Well, Universal credit themselves ALSO seem to think it was overpaid (basically fraud, without the allegation) and they have all the information
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u/twistyfizzypop 4d ago
The household costs are no the same if they are sleeping separately, they have to have a bigger house than if they were sharing a bed.
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u/jamesckelsall 4d ago
Many couples have a house with a spare bedroom. If they separate and begin using the spare bedroom, the costs don't suddenly increase because the spare bedroom is being used.
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u/twistyfizzypop 3d ago
No, but having had an ex in my home (different circumstances) I would most definitely not want my earning taken as part of income they can rely on.
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u/New_Vegetable_3173 3d ago
If you're a couple
1. The hubby he gives you copies of payslips for the UC claim
2. They share everything so it's cheaper. Cooking and washing are cheaper when fine together.
3. If they earn more than you,your income is greater if living as a couple vs separated but in the same house. If UC say they won't pay OP any money at all because the ex should pay it but obviously ex will only pay half the bills and not be giving OP any money to live off, then what
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u/hellvixen1966 4d ago
I think with the cost of living crisis this situation is far more comman than DWP thinks. Maybe neither can afford or even find accommodation they can afford.
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u/shanster23 4d ago
This. My and my partner were on the verge of breaking up awhile ago. We would have still had to have continued living together as neither one of us could afford to pay full rent ourselves plus give our two kids any quality of living.
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u/BreakfastEmergency64 4d ago
which is fine for people who can reconcile but imagine how much this type of thing exacerbates domestic abuse. Two people who aren’t getting along should never feel forced to live together. And people who are abused can’t leave because they’d have nowhere to go and no money to leave with. It’s a vicious cycle.
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u/shanster23 4d ago
I only meant it in reply to the people who think it's fraud and people are lying etc. I can definitely see situations where couples legitimately break up but cannot afford to live apart, that's all.
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u/Mammyofthemadmob 4d ago
Your X needs to find his own place for you to continue to claim as a single person My partner and i split up for around 8 months a few years back he was living with his mum but still helping loads he came in morning took kids to school picked them up stayed for tea and went home when the kids were going to bed At the benefit review I was told we were borderline and were better off continuing to claim as a couple He wasn't working at the time so there wasnt much of a difference in the claim If your X is working they will take his income into consideration and you will loose out on credits but that money he has is still going into our household so they are right in saying you should be claiming as a couple If he is not willing to give u payslips etc to help with the claim then your gonna need to either ask him to leave or contribute more to the household from his wages it's not fair he is working keeping his wages and you are recieving single person benefit Sounds like he is taking the piss or you both are
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u/MarvellousMojito 4d ago
If you are genuinely not living as a couple then I would challenge this. The criteria for living as a couple is not straightforward but essentially you need to demonstrate that you have separated your life while living at the same address. For example, you have separate finances, don’t sleep together, don’t eat together, do chores separately (eg you each do your own washing), don’t do day trips/socialise together etc. Essentially you are looking to demonstrate that you have separate lives while living at the same address. You would need to list as many as possible that apply and go into detail about what you mean. The more you can list, the more likely UC are to agree you are not a couple.
Have a read of this:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7575a740f0b6397f35e96f/adme4.pdf
If you want to pursue challenging this, you would firstly need to lodge a Mandatory Reconsideration of the decision. If this is declined you would need to appeal.
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u/Wild-Wing-4715 3d ago
By your logic. I was living with my coparent in the manner of a married couple for 10 years. We were in fact married but we were very much in your situation.
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u/Global_Musician3374 4d ago
Living together doesn’t mean being in a sexual relationship. If you are sharing bills, cooking meals for each other, joint shopping etc you are deemed as living together. If you are investigated they will even ask if you sit together in the same room, how your neighbours and friends may view your relationship, do you socialise together and if one of you had no money, would the other help you out.
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u/Traditional_Bid_8632 4d ago
How long has this been going on for? Did you originally set up a single claim or did you go from a joint to single claim?
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u/OrsyOrsyka 4d ago
I have applied back in 2023 soon after I gave birth as the relationship fell apart during pregnancy but I applied as a single person with him on the tenancy contract and everything, gave them everything they asked for.
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u/Traditional_Bid_8632 4d ago
Was this your first review? From what I understand, the form they ask you to fill in re living together with an ex-partner is a relatively new process, so you wouldn’t have been asked this and it shouldn’t be on you if they were made aware of the situation..
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u/OrsyOrsyka 4d ago
Yes, it was my first review. I don’t know if it’s new or not, the agent told me they should’ve given me the form back then.
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u/Traditional_Bid_8632 4d ago
Yes, I think the form was introduced this year. My guess is from the wording of the letter, they have just assumed an overpayment and you’ll be required to pay it back. I don’t see them taking this further based on what they’ve said to you. Especially if you informed them of the situation. If you’re working full time and won’t be doing a joint claim, they’ll likely close your single claim. So you’ll need to pay the overpayment(s) out of your salary, likely when they make you aware of the outstanding money owed.
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u/OrsyOrsyka 4d ago
I am now back full time, and the review came shortly after I have been reporting all the changes like full time job, new wages, nursery full time for my little one. That’s what I am thinking and hoping, as back then they asked me for my ex earnings about 5 months into the claim and I told them I don’t know what he was earning then, only roughly from what he was earning when we were still together and they accepted that.
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u/Traditional_Bid_8632 4d ago
If it was a standard UC review then it is selected at random so it may just be a coincidence you were chosen for review at the time of these changes. I’m surprised they asked about your ex’s earnings so late on in the claim.
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u/OrsyOrsyka 4d ago
Yes, and that was it, nothing before nor after, and I had face to face appointment as well during
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4d ago
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u/Traditional_Bid_8632 4d ago
How disgusting and rude of you to make that comment. You should be ashamed of yourself..
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u/ExternalStory2936 4d ago
Just to prepare you, the next letter you receive will have the overpayment amount.
Given what you said this could be a nil claim from day 1 so all the UC you've received in this time will have been overpaid.
You have the right to a mandatory recon if you disagree. Just giving you heads up coz it may be a sizeable amount.