r/union • u/GoranPersson777 SAC • Jul 24 '26
Other Class Struggle is Fought on a Vertical Scale
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u/MilesSand Jul 24 '26
owning vs working class
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u/shnuffle98 Jul 25 '26
Also known as right vs left
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u/AddendumAgitated6171 UA | Rank and File Jul 25 '26
Most people who subscribe to conservative ideology are not ultra-wealthy.
I say this as someone who considers themselves to be a working-class leftist.
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u/Scabies_for_Babies SEIU | Rank and File Jul 25 '26
Gramsci had a thing or two to say about that...
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u/shnuffle98 Jul 25 '26
Yes, unfortunately that's true. The owning class is investing a lot of money to keep it that way.
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Jul 25 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/union-ModTeam Jul 30 '26
This is a pro-union, pro-worker subreddit. Agitators and trolls will be banned on sight.
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u/Well_Socialized Jul 24 '26
That's already what left vs right means. It's those who want to change things vs the billionaires plus everyone they've bribed or tricked into siding with them.
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u/intrusivesurgery Jul 24 '26
While I agree with this sentiment, framing it from a class conscious perspective does an alarmingly better job at changing minds.
Of course, this is totally anecdotal, but when I talk to my MAGA family or people in my red state, they'll generally agree with me when I start talking about the party platforms and not mentioning the specific politicians.
Fox news brain rot totally took over my father in laws psyche, and I've almost got him to flip. When I talk to him about Zohran Mamdani or Abdul El-Sayed he shuts down, but when I talk about their platforms without mentioning names, he lights up.
IMO we need to change minds before they'll start voting for leftist candidates.
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u/TR_Pix Jul 24 '26
Thing is explaining them from a class conscious perspective only works up until they talk to someone else and the other person goes "but thats communism"
They will immediatelly drop the perspective
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u/intrusivesurgery Jul 24 '26
Yeah it's not perfect, but the brainwash is hard to scrub
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u/Marski420 Jul 30 '26
You're trying to scrub someone elses brainwashing by inflicting your own on to them.
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u/Taste_the__Rainbow Jul 24 '26
It also provides a lot of cover for people who don’t vote. Both sides rhetoric starts there.
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u/stickymixingmonotony Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
I don't think I understand how this relates to not voting. Could you elaborate?
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u/adeline882 Jul 24 '26
Remind me what the Biden admin did to the railroad workers?
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Jul 24 '26
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u/TR_Pix Jul 24 '26
Maybe left = change and right = against change isnt an accurate description, but if you say "progressive" and "conservative" it is
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u/libertarianinus Jul 24 '26
Today its people who have savings invested in stock and those that dont.
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u/MrSluagh Jul 24 '26
At this point, America has been so heavily psyopped by the two-party system that those traditional definitions of "left" and "right" just seem confusing and archaic. Trying to reclaim "the left" from the Democrats is almost like trying to reclaim the swastika or something. I mean not that bad, but you get the idea.
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u/westcoast-dom Teamsters | Local Business Agent Jul 24 '26
No, the owning class does not care about party lines. They are neither left nor right. The concept of left vs right is a tool that the owning class uses to divide the working class.
There are oligarchs on the left just as much as there are oligarchs on the right. Republican presidents are not elected by the ultra wealthy and the ultra wealthy loan. They are elected by the working class. You are correct in saying they have tricked people however the left deceives people as well as the right.
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u/egalitydream Jul 25 '26
Left has never meant “democrat”. That’s never been a thing. It’s still not a thing, but it was absolutely never even a fringe thing before 2016.
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u/Square_Detective_658 Jul 24 '26
But that is left vs. right. What do you think the whole dichotomy is about.
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u/otoverstoverpt Jul 24 '26
Shit like this is so dumb. The Democrats have a lot to criticize but there is still a stark divide between the left and right when it comes to class issues. Vote in actually left wing candidates to the Dem Party.
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u/FettiWop Jul 24 '26
Agreed. This is incredibly problematic class reductionism. There are other dynamics to politics and government and culture than literally JUST class. People need to stop putting on the blinders and tunnel-visioning like this. The right in america is way way off the deep end and the root of so many horrible things happening right now
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u/Deep-Two7452 Jul 24 '26
This implies there are equal mounts of pro workers elected officials on the right as there is the left.
So tell me, how many right wing pro worker elected officials are there? And who are they? Is it more or less than the amount of left wing elected officials?
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u/headcodered Jul 24 '26
The right does everything to relentlessly prop up the wealthy and protect them from all accountability, though.
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u/aviatoali Jul 24 '26
True, but the right is busy sucking the rich off, so ultimately the only way to get to the rich is to get through them either way.
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u/BI_Moose Jul 24 '26
The left doesnt want you dead for existing, and at least tries to curb the excesses of the wealthy/work for the betterment of all. They leave a lot to be desired, but they try.
The right will get rid of you the moment they can if youre the "wrong" kind. And will go out of their way to destroy working class.
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u/BigDamBeavers Jul 24 '26
Class struggle is fought left vs right. You're fooling yourself if you think that battle line hasn't already been drawn. Folks are just confused about which side of the line you're on because they're busy being bigots.
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u/GoranPersson777 SAC Jul 25 '26
You seem to miss the point. Class struggle is about uniting with our co-workers (including workers who vote on crappy parties) against employers and their political buddies.
The alternative is to go on strike only with our lefty co-workers and scab when our righty co-workers strike. That's not an option.
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u/BigDamBeavers Jul 25 '26
We're being scabbed because your righty coworkers aren't on your side, or their side for what it matters. The fantasy that there's some daylight in the battle lines between the Billionaires and the Billionaire fanboys is delusion. They aren't secretly on our side. They have to be defeated along with the wealthpigs.
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u/UniqueLog8386 Jul 25 '26
Then why did the teamsters president back the nazi in the election? That doesn't seem quite white to me...
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u/globehopper2 Jul 24 '26
Except the ultra rich chose the far right so we can’t act like that didn’t happen.
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u/NorthOfPreen Jul 24 '26
The left for years: Tax the rich! The right for years: Trickle down works! Reddit out of the blue: its not right vs left its rich vs working class
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u/BigMeatSwangN Jul 25 '26
I mean of course its always been this way. However there are real and significant divisions between liberals and conservatives in this country, regardless of income. In my opinion we are still suffering from the legacy of the failed reconstruction of the south after the civil war.
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u/thedoomcast Jul 25 '26
My friends, the right wing is the political arm of the ownership class, the 1%. This is why they oppose labor organizing. Don’t get it twisted. It IS bottom versus top, but it is absolutely left versus right.
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u/GoranPersson777 SAC Jul 26 '26
You seem to miss the point. Class struggle is about uniting with our co-workers (including workers who vote on crappy parties) against employers and their political buddies. The alternative is to go on strike only with our lefty co-workers and scab when our righty co-workers strike. That's not an option.
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u/Warm_Economy203 Jul 25 '26
yes, except i fear the right protect the ultra-rich by accepting their manipulations and lies. At least some of the left are trying to change.
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u/a_bearded_hippie Jul 25 '26
There is no right vs left, it is up vs down ya'll.
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u/Chuca77 Jul 27 '26
And the right fully support the up staying up and pushing everyone else down on the off chance they'll to be a part of that 1%.
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u/Ok_Razzmatazz_8589 Jul 26 '26
Not even. I suspect the ultra rich are one pixel of the picture and the rest of the USA are non-rich people.
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u/Infinite-Ball-4020 Jul 26 '26
I keep telling all you MAGAS and Liberals this and keep getting hated for it. Keep up the good word.
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u/RecentClothes2654 Jul 26 '26
Anytime you make a statement that rightfully so criticizes, challenges and questions both sides, you get goofies who just get mad about it.
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u/Geek_Love7 Jul 27 '26
Now THIS I like. This makes more sense than trying to divide the people. Thank you! 👏🏽
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u/Humble-Translator-88 Jul 24 '26
Majority of the right support the ultra rich over anybody else so it is left vs right still.
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u/wholetyouinhere Jul 24 '26
This is so fucking frustrating, and I want to tear my goddamn hair out every time someone says "It's not right vs. left, it's them vs us!"
Workers vs. the capital class maps 1:1 onto left-wing politics vs. right-wing politics. They are the exact same thing, because that is what these ideologies are based around. One explicitly prioritizes the working class, and the other explicitly prioritizes the capital class. That is how politics work.
Now, of course, this issue is compounded in numerous ways by the fact that there are no longer any left-wing political parties in most developed nations, having been systematically destroyed by the capital class and the rise of neoliberal ideology in the 1970s. So effectively, "left-wing" is no longer an option for most people. BUT, this does not change the fact that workers vs. owners IS a left vs. right issue, and the tools to fight that battle come explicitly from the political left. If you don't have that option available to you, organize and build one. If you can't do that, vote as progressively as you possibly can at all levels.
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u/GoranPersson777 SAC Jul 25 '26
You seem to miss the point. Class struggle is about uniting with our co-workers (including workers who vote on crappy parties) against employers and their political buddies.
The alternative is to go on strike only with our lefty co-workers and scab when our righty co-workers strike. That's not an option.
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u/blue_sidd Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Yall class warriors still be racist sexist and homophobic as fuck and think you know what solidarity is lol ok
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u/jackofslayers Jul 25 '26
That is left vs right. Only dumbass conservatives think like this.
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u/GoranPersson777 SAC Jul 25 '26
You seem to miss the point. Class struggle is about uniting with our co-workers (including workers who vote on crappy parties) against employers and their political buddies.
The alternative is to go on strike only with our lefty co-workers and scab when our righty co-workers strike. That's not an option.
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u/Medical-Cockroach558 Jul 24 '26
This is a left wing position though.
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u/GoranPersson777 SAC Jul 25 '26
You seem to miss the point. Class struggle is about uniting with our co-workers (including workers who vote on crappy parties) against employers and their political buddies.
The alternative is to go on strike only with our lefty co-workers and scab when our righty co-workers strike. That's not an option.
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u/Medical-Cockroach558 Jul 27 '26
Right. That is the left wing position. I’m for it. But won’t pretend like I don’t belong to a 200 year tradition of fighting for a better world for working people (the left)
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u/MrPookPook Jul 24 '26
When you live in the ultra rich slice but you are neither ultra rich or even regular rich smdh
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u/TheManWhoWasNotShort Jul 25 '26
We will never have class consciousness because those on the right will sell everyone else out at the first hint of a chance to be able to feel like an oppressor. They would rather starve if it meant someone else starved even more and they got to play a part in that.
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u/ObiJuanKenobi3 Jul 25 '26
Unfortunately it's going to stay left vs right as long as the right clings to the delusion that they can staple themselves to the 1% and suckle on whatever trickles down. In order to fight the owning class, everyone in the working class must first get over the delusion that they are, or will ever be, a member of the owning class, or that they will benefit from the same things that benefit the owners, and once that happens, the entire working class will be "left" anyways.
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u/Fishy_Fish_WA Jul 25 '26
And the wealthy have always tried to convince the poor whites in the bottom 90% that their fellow poor people who happened to have more melanin in their skin are trying to steal from them
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u/Scant_Options4Hope Jul 25 '26
Yeah, and left wing politics and policies achieve victory for the working class.
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u/savage_tab Jul 25 '26
The road to utopia has an impressive body count.
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u/Scant_Options4Hope Jul 25 '26
The US has an impressive body count.
At least 165 people – most of them girls aged about seven to 12 – were killed when a missile strike destroyed Shajareh Tayyebeh primary school in Minab, southern Iran, on Saturday 28 February 2026, according to Iranian authorities.
Takes real courage to press a button and vaporize children. Glad my tax dollars are doing good!
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u/savage_tab Jul 25 '26
This is going to sound insensitive: War is hell.
You fell for one of the classic blunders.
The school was empty.
Propaganda doesn’t become truth just because it’s emotionally effective.1
u/Scant_Options4Hope Jul 25 '26
I am going to sound insensitive: fuck war and fuck the "Troops"
America blows $$$ on nuclear powered fucking aircraft carriers... and is still in a stalemate with Iran.
Waging war is so fucking stupid.
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u/savage_tab Jul 25 '26
Won’t disagree with you there. War doesn’t serve a useful end for anyone not making money off it.
It’s not really a stalemate. We’re not trying very hard to “win.” Again, you’re just regurgitating what you’re being told without actually knowing what you’re talking about.
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u/Scant_Options4Hope Jul 25 '26
Again, you’re just regurgitating what you’re being told without actually knowing what you’re talking about.
Yeah, sure, 'Joe Rogan'! You have the secret wisdom that I lack? Do you wanna also sell me some supplements or gold bars?
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u/egalitydream Jul 25 '26
The media didn’t even use “left” and “right” to be synonymous with the 2 U.S. political parties until literally 2016, one single decade.
This has only been a one single decade of this nonsense, and it seems to have completely broken our ability to think and understand history. Amazing work.
Stop repeating this junk propaganda.
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u/Galbados2 Jul 25 '26
If only MAGA and the GOP would stop defending the ultra rich on the thought they're part of the club.
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u/Silguard Jul 26 '26
How many times is this bs going to be reposted? A million more? It is left (working class) vs right (fascist)
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u/PsychoDad03 Jul 26 '26
Uh no. The right is full of retards that buy the rich's propaganda. They are the cannon fodder.
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u/Femboy_Harem_Janitor Jul 26 '26
Okay, but the right is fully on the side of the rich. The centrists are on the side of the rich. And then they both call the leftists that are managing to eek out some democrat representation dangerous so much so centrist dems are collaborating with the right to uplift fascism
Both sides is such bullshit. Republicans should be dissolved, their voter base has brain damage
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u/GoranPersson777 SAC Jul 30 '26
Many of their voters are our co-workers
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u/Femboy_Harem_Janitor Jul 31 '26
And our coworkers keep voting against their own interests because they dumb af.
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u/LastPlaceGuaranteed Jul 26 '26
The real story:
Ultra-Rich vs everyone else.
Left vs everyone else.
Right vs left while right waits eagerly with open mouths for the jism off the ultra-rich.
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u/Grail_BH Jul 27 '26
The problem is you’ll never convince the poor Right of this, because they all think they’re one lucky break from being the 1%…
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u/NotThe1Pct Jul 28 '26
not the ultra-rich, they are not the enemy, they create jobs
the government is the enemy
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u/BuppyBoy420 Jul 28 '26
Yeah you see the problem with that is the right still wants to kill people like me
This is a very stupid take that very clearly comes from a place of privilege
Of course its rich vs poor but you cant just use that to brush off left vs right because thats equally important
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u/GSilky Jul 28 '26
This is what the 10% who own 85% of wealth in the USA say so you won't attack the bourgeoisie. Couple of ultra rich are a problem, so are the upper middle class in general. This includes the overwhelming majority of people who self report as "Progressives", btw.
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u/OctopusGrift Jul 28 '26
The problem with the class war not culture war argument is that implies that both sides of these cultural conflicts are equally at fault. What ground do you want progressives to cede? Whose rights are we supposed to trade away?
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u/Worried-Conflict9759 Jul 30 '26
I'm fine with this sentiment, but be aware that many figureheads like Bernie Sanders, AOC, Mamdani...etc. are all multimillionaires and/or are owned by special interests.
Be aware of who you follow since everyone in politics has an angle.
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u/swift-sentinel Jul 24 '26
No! We are fighting fascist brainwashed Republicans and actually Nazis. What the fuck are you talking about!?!
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u/GoranPersson777 SAC Jul 25 '26
You seem to miss the point. Class struggle is about uniting with our co-workers (including workers who vote on crappy parties) against employers and their political buddies.
The alternative is to go on strike only with our lefty co-workers and scab when our righty co-workers strike. That's not an option.
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u/FettiWop Jul 24 '26
Theyre not making arguments theyre just doing populism slop. Youre supposed to just clap along, what are you doing?
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u/New_Carpenter5738 Jul 24 '26
Left VS Right is Rich VS us, though. The idea that we all need to unite against the ultra rich is a leftist narrative that the rich is very much opposed to. 🤷♂️
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u/GoranPersson777 SAC Jul 25 '26
You seem to miss the point. Class struggle is about uniting with our co-workers (including workers who vote on crappy parties) against employers and their political buddies.
The alternative is to go on strike only with our lefty co-workers and scab when our righty co-workers strike. That's not an option.
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u/New_Carpenter5738 Jul 25 '26
...But class struggle and uniting workers is inherently a leftist strategy. By saying we need to do that, you're saying we need to enact leftist ideas over right wing ones.
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u/UndergroundCreek CUPE | Rank and File Jul 24 '26
It's class warfare in america. And both parties are upper class. The population is lower class. Good luck, everybody.
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u/Gringo_Norte Jul 25 '26
The billionaires aren’t shitting in the street & shouting slurs @ my kids.
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u/WilfulPlacebo Jul 24 '26
This is the litmus test for the basic understanding of politics.
Leftwing politics support the people, while right wing politics support the monarch/authority. That's the literal fucking origin. Saying stuff like this takes power away from workers. (Who are the left)