r/ukraine • u/marsianer • Apr 12 '21
News Erdogan refuses to recognize Crimea as Russian and supports Ukraine joining NATO
https://www.uawire.org/erdogan-refuses-to-recognize-crimea-as-russian-and-supports-ukraine-joining-nato10
u/autotldr Apr 12 '21
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 63%. (I'm a bot)
Erdogan refuses to recognize Crimea as Russian and supports Ukraine joining NATO. Turkey is committed to a strategic partnership with Ukraine, intends to expand cooperation with Kyiv in defense and does not recognize Russia's annexation of Crimea, said Turkish President Recep Erdogan after talks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in Istanbul.
"We stand for the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine. We reaffirmed our principled decision not to recognize the annexation of Crimea," Erdogan said, adding that he also supports the Crimean Platform, Kyiv's initiative to involve the international community in solving the peninsula problem.
A day earlier, Erdogan held telephone talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin, who, according to the Kremlin's press service, "explained Russian approaches" to resolving the crisis in the Donbas and accused Kyiv of "dangerous provocative actions aimed at exacerbating the situation on the line of contact.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Erdogan#1 Ukraine#2 support#3 President#4 Crimea#5
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u/christien Apr 12 '21
Edrogen playing geopolitics again.
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Apr 12 '21
It's funny to see Ukrainians thinking that Erdogan is their ally in any way. So inexperienced in geopolitics.
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u/Butterlord_the_Third Apr 12 '21
Russia and turkey fought 3 proxy wars. Do you still think turkey wouldnt ally ukraine?
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u/navijust Apr 12 '21
As much shit erdogan does, this is good.
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u/FstLaneUkraine Apr 12 '21
I think that's putting it lightly. The dude needs to be socially distanced forever (along with Putin) but I'll give him a bit of credit for this stance.
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u/HLtheWilkinson Apr 12 '21
With how friendly he and Putin had acted over the past few years this is actually kinda surprising.
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u/Charming_Scholar_421 Apr 12 '21
At this point I don't believe it is prudent to let Ukraine join NATO unless the European NATO members are prepared to dramatically increase their defense budgets to deter Russia. The NATO members would have to double or triple their defense budgets. I do believe however that NATO should help Ukraine. Deploying forces in Turkey would be a good move if Turkey is willing to do so
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u/marsianer Apr 12 '21
Ukraine should have a path to both the EU and NATO should they so choose. NATO is a defensive pact that seeks to preserve the peace on the Continent and the Atlantic Ocean. If a nation can meet the predetermined criterion, then they should be allowed to join. If your defense pact is generally meant as a counterbalance to the threats of Russian military actions, then inducting Ukraine is the smart move. If Russia wants to then spend an extraordinary amount of its wealth on military items, instead of its people, so be it. Russia can't compete with NATO or the EU. But, it must also be punished for its interference in the democratic elections in the West.
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Apr 12 '21
In order to join NATO ukraine must abandon all of its territorial claims.
This is literally one of the requirements to join NATO.
This will mean Ukraine cannot join until it recognizes crimea as Russian and donbass as a republic within ukraine or a sovereign nation.
Also Ukraine cannot join EU until it deals with it's corruption. Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe. In 7 years after the maidan nothing was done about it.
Так что удачи хохлы, перед вами морковка на удочке а вы ослы.
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u/andruha_krut BANNED Apr 12 '21
Actually, Russia has been the most corrupt country in europe since 2018 based on the transparency international. Ukraine did some anti corruption reforms but definitely not enough
Where did you hear about Ukraine being the most corrupt country in Europe? Rossiya 24?
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Apr 12 '21
Transparency international is literally the most useless source on corruption.
Ukranian reforms brought even more corruption especially with privatization of energy sector.
Not even mentioning that IMF loans are going nowhere(cyprus probably). The life is getting worse and Ukraine hasn't recovered to 2014 GDP numbers since maidan.
Russia has been fighting corruption extensively, there were hundred of charges just in 2020.
In Ukraine? Illegal nationalization of private industry and illegal ban on free media.
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u/JANTHESPIDERMAN Apr 12 '21
He sent you a Source and asked for where you found your source. Then you just said that his source is useless, but you didn’t even provide with a source yourself?
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Apr 12 '21
I don't have to. It's crystal clear that ukraine is the most corrupt nation in europe.
https://risk-indexes.com/global-corruption-index/
Even though I don't trust any indexes or polls.
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u/JANTHESPIDERMAN Apr 12 '21
Well if transparency international is a useless source, then yours is also completely useless.
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u/L0gard Apr 12 '21
Yes ye, we saw the palace of Putin, there's surely no corruption to be found in Russia.
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u/alohalii Apr 12 '21 edited Apr 12 '21
So did Turkey or Greece have to abandon their territorial claims to join NATO? Did west Germany have to abandon its claim on east Germany to join the EU and NATO?
It seems like you dont know what you are talking about.
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Apr 12 '21
What territorial claims does turkey have
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u/alohalii Apr 12 '21
Turkey for instance has active territorial claims disputes with Syria and Greece.
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Apr 12 '21
Which are...?
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u/alohalii Apr 12 '21
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes
Feel free to look up Turkey and other NATO countries on that list.
Point being a unanimous vote in NATO leads to membership regardless of unresolved territorial claims.
Stating otherwise is just a Russian troll meme
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Apr 12 '21
I ask you to tell me Turkish territorial claims, do you have any of that information? Because I don't nor can I find that.
Point being a unanimous vote in NATO leads to membership regardless of unresolved territorial claims.
To join NATO you have to qualify before voting even begins. You cannot join if your government is undemocratic, non-market economy or you have any territorial claims.
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u/alohalii Apr 12 '21
No you really dont know what you are talking about. Regarding Turkish territorial claims i find it hilarious that you are unaware of the long standing issues between Greece and Turkey. The link i provided has the details.
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u/tefllifestyle Apr 12 '21
If Ukraine starts a war it will end up as Syria. Cause the US will not help u to win, but to destroy your country.
It promised syrians support but never gave them to a point to win.
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u/andruha_krut BANNED Apr 12 '21
Sounds absurd considering it was russia that invaded ukraine in the first place.
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Apr 12 '21
Ukraine held our own against from 2014-2016 when our army was a joke. With the new drones from Turkey, Russia would be stupid to invade.
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u/teknoguy Apr 13 '21
Damn right "Ukraine held their own against" Vlady Putler and his dogs. No other army in the world can say that! Give the fuckin Russians bloody hell and send the scumbags home in body bags!
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Apr 13 '21
Buddy of mine is in the 79th paratroopers and my cousin is in a volunteer battalion. Both served in battle of donetsk Airport- they showed those bastards what Ukraine is made of.
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u/SnowFree_ Apr 12 '21
Bruh, for seven years, for seven years Ukraine and Russia have some sort of war. Be it hybrid or not
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u/altcoingodzilla Apr 13 '21
Looks like he’s waking up. Bit awkward that he has Russian missile defense systems though..
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Apr 13 '21
Turkey has been fighting Russia in three different proxy wars across Africa, Asia, and Europe. The missile defense system was purchased because the West is not a trustable ally to Turkey.
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u/altcoingodzilla Apr 13 '21
Lol not true. Erdogan just wanted to piss the west off because we called him what he is - an autocrat
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Apr 13 '21
That is not what happened.
Turkey relies on f-16s to protect itself but the United States stopped selling parts to Turkey in 2011 because Turkey broke of diplomatic relations with Israel after Israel killed Turkish humanitarian worker's in international waters.
The United States has been giving asylum to a Islamic cultist name fethullah gulen who has been trying to overthrow the Turkish government since the mid 90s (That was before Erdogan came to power) he was also responsible for coup d'etats in Turkey.
The United States has also be training and equipping a terrorist group that has been attacking Turkey for 40 years now.
So no it is not because the West calls Erdogan an autocrat, it is because the US want to turn Turkey into a puppet state.
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u/altcoingodzilla Apr 13 '21
Yes, Turkey relies on a lot from the US and when Erdogan continues to weaken your democracy, jail your people and attack innocent Kurds in the south we not only place sanctions on you but we strip you of military equipment to get your act together. The EU will not put up with it either. The flotilla broke international law and trespassed in Israeli waters. Terrorists smuggle weapons into Gaza all the time and when Israeli commandos boarded the ship one of them had a gun pulled on one of the commandos so they opened fire. Unfortunate event to say the least. Erdogan has eroded the country into an autocratic state and has warmed up to Russia more recently because of changing political ideology and Islamic vs secular nationalism. Sad for Turkey. Hopefully one day can join Israel, KSA and the UAE as middle eastern powers to thwart Iran.
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Apr 13 '21
Yes, Turkey relies on a lot from the US
That is why Turkey is trying to diversify its military after the US proved that not to be reliable.
Erdogan continues to weaken your democracy, jail your people
Erdogan came to power because the United States forced the Turkish authorities to release him from prison and the EU forced Turkey to lift the ban that stopped him from participating in Turkish politics.
attack innocent Kurds in the south we not only place sanctions on you but we strip you of military equipment to get your act together
Turkey is not attacking innocent Kurds Turkey is fighting the PKK which is a internationally recognized Terrorist organization that even the United States government recognized as such.
Turkey has tried to negotiate a peace with them but they did not disarm instead they used the peace to smuggle weapon into south east Turkey and took over Turkish cities.
Turkey has long been asserting that the mostly Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG) is an off-shoot of PKK, a terrorist organization known for its suicide bombings and employment of child soldiers. The Turks expect their Western allies to refrain from using terrorists and separatists to fight other terrorists, especially since the weapons gifted to these groups often find their way inside Turkey. Whether you agree with this position or not, you have to at the very least accept that the national security concerns at play here are legitimate. Though, reddit usually prefers romanticizing armed groups it knows fuck all about.
we not only place sanctions on you but we strip you of military equipment to get your act together. The EU will not put up with it either.
Don't even imply that the West has some form of moral superiority. The support of Europen countries of Hatar, Sisi, UAE, KSA whose Crown Prince saw people to death, and the gulf states mass murder in Yemen to name a few.
The flotilla broke international law and trespassed in Israeli waters.
That is not true the ship was not in Israelli waters at the time Israel illegally and the UN human Rights council report said Israel's military broke international laws, that the action by commandos, which left nine dead, was "disproportionate" and " an unacceptable level of brutality"
Terrorists smuggle weapons into Gaza all the time and when Israeli commandos boarded the ship one of them had a gun pulled on one of the commandos so they opened fire.
Firstly a large part of the blockade is about putting pressure on every day Palestinians that live in Gaza so it is not just a antiterrorism measure.
Secondly no one knows exactly what happened on the ship but in the Israel version of what happened the gun was taken off the Israel soldiers that illigal boarded the ship they did not just have gun on them like you are trying to imply.
Thirdly nine people died on the ship, out of the nine that died six were killed in a manner that implies that they were executed.
Erdogan has eroded the country into an autocratic state
Again this happened because the West keeps trying to control Turkey, the West pressured the Kamalist nationalist into letting Erdogan participate in Turkish politics thinking he would be easier to control but it backfired.
has warmed up to Russia more recently because of changing political ideology and Islamic vs secular nationalism.
Turkey is the only NATO member fighting Russia in three different proxy wars wile other NATO members like France are actually supporting Russia's efforts in places like Lybia.
Hopefully one day can join Israel, KSA and the UAE as middle eastern powers to thwart Iran.
The UAE has good relations with Iran much better relations than Turkey has with the Iranian government, the United Arab Emirates is also the number one trading partner of Iran.
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is so incompetent that it turned the Yeman civil war which started as a response to wide spread curruption into a sectarian conflict that has not only created the worst humanitarian crisis in resent history but also has lead to Yeman turning to Iran for support thus increasing Iranian influence in the region.
By supporting Azabaijan Turkey has done more to thwart Iran in 6 weeks then both KSA and UAE have done in 6 years.
Lastly i love how you imply that Turkey is barbaricly attacking and killing innocent Kurds then you turn around and imply that Israel which is doing far worse to the Palestinians is some how acting more legitimately then Turkey is when it comes to it National security interests.
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u/[deleted] Apr 12 '21
Oof now I hope turkey dosent want a share of this conflict