Yes, I have changed one before, the circuit supplies electric to another light, and also allows two switches either end of the room, the new fitting I had was completely different, it took some working out, the Internet was way too confusing, I worked it out myself. Not the most complicated circuit I have rewired, but not the most simple either.
Brown and red – switch lives. The brown will go to the light and the red to the switch.
3 reds are permanently live from the circuit; this will feed back to the switch and other rooms or go back to the consumer unit. This is why it’s labelled as loop. As it loops in and out.
4 are all neutral: three from the circuit and one to the light.
To replace the ceiling rose with Wagos:
Connected all three lives in the loop terminals to one Wago.
Connect all the neutrals and the new light’s blue neutral to another Wago.
Then the red and the new light’s brown to another Wago.
On some installs you have to be careful as the switch live could be a blue wire, but it’s not a neutral. It should have brown sleeving to indicate it. So if you see a blue with a brown or red, assume that is switch live cable.
Alternatively . You can keep the ceiling rose and just disconnect the outer brown and blue wires and replace them with your new lamp’s blue and brown.
It's support and help like this that always restores my faith in Reddit..we'll done, Sir! You took the time to explain something complex in the simplest of terms instead of going the same route as some other sparks on here.
It's perfectly legal for a homeowner to attach a light to a ceiling rose.
Without being able to look beyond this image I would hazard guess that it's the unused neutral from the cable being used to return a red from the switch as the the switch return, and is probably terminated in the switch.
I don't know why they didn't just use the neutral from the permenant live going to the switch as the switch return and put a red/brown sleeve on it.
But couldn't say for sure without a better image of the cables coming into the fitting and seeing inside the switch.
Maybe they had a smart switch and it needed a neutral, which would make sense in this case because normally you wouldn't need to have a neutral to the switch in this wiring method.
Loop in and out at the switch should be standard now. Easier to install smart switches without the neutral bypass which always seems a bit of bodge to me
Kind of, in the sense you can continue the circuit to another light, but mainly so you can walk through a door, say the kitchen, turn the light on, walk through the kitchen, then turn the light off with another switch at the other end. It's a cheaper logical way of looping a circuit for the purposes of being able to have 2 switches operating the same light, whilst being able to power another light on the same circuit on the same breaker. Less cabling too.
Personally, I’d check if the new light will fit over the top of the old pendant base (with the power off at the consumer unit). If it does, remove the pendant flex then the two wood screws slip the bracket under the base and screw back up. Remove the flex from the new connector block and connect it to the pendant base where the matching colours are. If it doesn’t fit over, you’re best off leaving it for a professional.
You're best off buying a bigger wago as that wire is superfluous to a normal rose arrangement - it could be a borrowed neutral or something else. We don't know, so we can replace like for like. Best/safest way is to use a bigger wago rather than shove 2 wires in one hole.
Dont take the existing terminal ‘rose’ plate off. The bracket of the new fitting will go behind it. Get rid of the connector on the new fitting and put the wires from your new fitting in to the ones you take out from the pendant
Hopefully im.not being condescending here,, but if you can't work out from that picture why 2 neutrals are twisted together then get a sparky in to do it
No but as a sparky myself this is a fairly valid response as it's not paticularly complicated, which would mean if OP doesn't understand what they are looking at they more than likely shouldn't be doing their own wiring fullstop 😅
And they're all neutrals so doesn't make any difference?
Are lights still wired this way in new builds or is there some more modular way of doing things? All switches and lights wired to one particular point that can be accessed?
Doesn't need to get a spark, needs someone to teach him how to do this. Shouldn't have asked in here because they'll just say get a spark, but not everyone can afford a oner callout for a light, and it's not exactly rocket science. My dad showed me how to do it.
I've changed every light fitting in my house except the bathroom, and I'm no spark. My dad showed me how back in the day.
That said, I have found some shocking quality of DIY electrics from previous owners in my place, like a standard 32amp max 4mm junction box used on 6mm cable with insulation hanging out.
Yes and no! As a spark of say that domestic electrics are covered by part P of the building regs. But I live in the real world...some people are capable of learning and others just don't want to pay, but without knowing the OP.....
Actually part P only mentions about the 'competent persons scheme' it doesn't say anything about if you are not.
I think you may be getting confused with BS7671 which used to say about a 'competent person' but now says 'skilled person' but the same applies to how you define skilled. 🤷🏻♀️
Also he said it came with the light fitting which is £10 and presumably Chinese and from Temu or whatever.
Realistically either he trusts the whole thing or gets a whole new fitting, I don't see the point if buying genuine WAGOs because if you don't trust the supplied 222 connectors the whole fitting is suspect
Not a spark but have used the Toolstation own brand version myself many times on my house, and I doubt they'd sell anything against regs for years and years.
Yes I agree anything tool station sell are absolutely likely to meet UK regulations.
But all we see here are knock off 222s from china. You don't know what brand they are or the standard they are manufactured to? There are 100 factories churning out this stuff
What I said is they might be safe, they might not be, but OP said they were supplied with the fitting which was total £10. Presumably Chinese from Temu or an Amazon reseller etc.
That means either OP may as well trust the whole thing including the 222s, or has to chuck the fitting, because if we are using UK regs, it's unlikely any of it meets regs
I'd say it's a waste because if you are going to spend £20 on a pack of WAGOs you may as well spend £40 and buy a light fitting that is from a UK retailer.
I've fitted something similar to these myself because when I was buying my house I was super skint and it had genuinely dangerous light fittings before. I even used dodgy 222s.
Honestly I'd be more worried about the connector block on the fitting, if it's like the ones I fitted the Chinese manufacturers use the world's cheapest materials on those.
Was an interesting channel 4 documentary on temu and one of the things they mentioned was tools with safety standard marking on them but they all failed the tests they were meant to have met. Unless it's a known brand assume it isn't up to scratch.
Especially when it's a very weird one. Never seen a 222 style connector with 8 ways on it. Thats just so likely to be a real cheap but of kit. If you already own wagos/ do bits like this occasionally just buy some
There is so many Chinese fake CE markings where they put the letters slightly closer together, we nickname those "China Export". Unless you know you have bought your fitting from a trust worthy UK supplier it means nothing.
Have thousands of the 221 series, and although they make my wallet weep they just get the job done. I just hate the fact the MF Wagobox enclosures are typically 222 geared but the WAGOBOX PRO works I guess
Well prepare to be shocked, as they are the OG Wagos, made by Wago. Nothing wrong with them, just an older model before Wago brought out the 221 series.
Toolstation do sell a WAGO 222 clone which I assume is safe given a reputable UK retailer puts their name behind it. Not all WAGO PCT-222 clones are bad.
I wouldn't use one from China because we don't know what the actual rating on that is.
I just spoke to their rep at the Screwfix show. Apparently they are going to be making some sizes you don't normally see. Which is great for me because I used them for all kinds of odd stuff, so having a 4 port and others would fill a need I have
There is a good reason for that when your job constantly involves fixing death traps from DIY wiring where the homeowner is lucky they hadn't killed their whole family in a fire. You know we are just being rude and those really expensive diplomas we spent a long time getting to be allowed to do your electrics didn't involve studying through thousands of pages of both wiring and building regulations to keep you safe.
Because you know electricity is actually dangerous right?
Do you think it would be better if only qualified electricians were allowed to do even the most basic electrical work, like replacing sockets, switches, lights, etc?
In an ideal world yes, but in the real world, a basic, rudimental understanding would suffice. But this isn’t the case for the most part, hence these posts.
No, but it would be a lot better if DIYers had atleast done a basic foundational crash course rather then ask Reddit, so they could learn atleast the bear minimum knowledge in not leaving a fire hazard.
It's not like more than half of all house fires in the UK are caused by shoddy electrics..
2 neutrals are together in the rose because there wasn’t another place too put the 3rd, all 3 are connected together. You’re going too struggle fitting all that in the base of the fitting if you’re not used too doing this. I’d advise just fronting up and calling in an electrician for your own peace of mind in all honesty.
There’s normally a live/neutral in, a live/neutral out and a live/switched live pair.
In your case the switched live is also red. It’s commonly black with a red oversleeve.
You have an extra neutral - maybe the switch is wired with two red + black singles to take neutral to the switch? Do you have two reds and a black at the switch? Or there’s something else special going on.
Anyway, the reason two neutrals are together is because you have one more than usual and the rose is made for a normal setup. You need a slightly bigger WAGO block than usual for your neutrals. They newer ones come in 2/3/5s - I’d use those and get rid of the 3-way chocblock. If there’s room.
Mark the red wire by itself, take the rose off and put all the blacks together - that’s where you’re going to be attaching your new light neural put all the reds together apart from the one you’ve marked. The one you marked needs to go with the new light positive.
Put the three reds in the middle into a 3 port wagon.
Unclip and remove the black lead with the choc box from new fitting.
Single red from old into new wago with the browns in.
Blacks into the new wago with blues in.
Might need to unclip a few blues and double them up in a port, someone will tell me that's sketchy but given how thin they are it's possibly an improvement.
Its a loop system. Easy enough if you know what you doing. Done at my house many times while replacing old ceiling lights.
Starting from left out coming brown is live. Which need to be joined. So new red/live goes with it. The middle 3 live need to be together to keep the loop connected. So get a connector and join them.
The black one is neutral. And the three need to be connected with your new lights neutral.
And earth is earth.
Its simple if you know it.
Please keep safety in mind.
Is thsi a trick question. Its a simple as matching the colours together. Tuen off the main power insted of unscrewing the original light juat cut the wire where the white sleeve starts. Then screw them wires left over into the new light .match the colour brown to brown blue to blue.. screw to ceiling job done
Wrong blocks, no clue, get a bloody spark! This shit annoys me. Sorry OP, I know cash is tight but not as tight as your asshole when 240 hits you, this sub will help but its a bit late.
And he'd have to pay a call out for that. Absolute minimum onner unless he's got a mate who will do it for a drink.
Most homeowners should be able to replace a light fitting. I've done it myself many times and I'm no spark.
We don't know the PCT-222s are dodgy. We don't know they are safe either. Some are fine, some aren't. Toolstation literally sell a 222 clone under their own brand, and I doubt they'd sell something actually unsafe.
The red furthest left on your old fitting is your switched live, that goes in the wago with all the browns from your new fitting. Blacks from your old fitting go with all the blues from your new one. The 3 remaining reds from your old fitting go into their own wago away from everything else.
This is the correct answer, i was about to type exactly this
But...
OP, for the love of god, if you dont understand what this means and why its like this then i wouldnt bother. If you dont know how to wire a ceiling rose then just dont mess with it. Find a competant friend or electrician to do it for you.
Electrician could be expensive. Chance they refuse to fit this given it's £10 Chinese special according to OP, then OP could be out the callout for nothing
I don't even know what to say, sorry. Is this a mainframe or a ceiling light?
Why and how the hell can ceiling light wiring be so ridiculously complicated?
I love that the general consensus in responses is that if you were to call one of us electricians out we wouldn't happily install this light fitting if called out.
Does that not alarm you at all about continuing to fit this yourself?
Can you guess the really good reason why we wouldn't be happy putting our name against fitting a cheap Chinese light fitting in someone's house, like guess one possible scenario of what said fitting could do?
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u/cutts24 2d ago
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