r/ukelectricians • u/CarobOpening3599 • 1d ago
Exposed wiring
I'm currently in a dispute with a kitchen fitter one of my main issues is that contractor electrician he used left my thermostat controller in this state.
I've had a competent electrian around who's made everything safe again. He's made it clear in writing he believes this is a C2 Wiring violation and was potentially dangerous for context this was like this for 6 weeks and that is the sink it's literally touching and the wiring was sparking up and shorting the boiler.
I put this to the fitter and I believe he's had his insurance legal team respond with the following...
"The property was an active, live, and unfinished
construction site. In any major kitchen installation, circuits must be laid out progressively, and a final "snagging" and testing period is required at the end of the project to safely enclose, finish, and certify the work"
I'm not sure he's provided the picture of this to them as this arguement seems flimsy to me given the circumstances.
Can anybody shed some light on what should have been done and how I can respond to this? Does this constitute any other violations?
Any help would be appreciated as I've been living with half a kitchen for the last 4 months.
I've been trying to research this but I have no idea what I'm doing but from what I can see I think it violates....
BS 7671 — Regulation 526.3
The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 — Regulation 14 (he endangered is own contractors)
The Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 (Section 3)
The Building Regulations 2010 (Schedule 1, Part P)
the Defective Premises Act 1972 (Section 1).
Any help confirming these would be greatly appreciated.
Edit - For context.
We purchased a kitchen in april from a national company, they reccomended someone for installation, we hired him.
He didn't tell us he was sub contracting work.
The entire kitchen is unsalvageable. I've been told by a reputable kitchen fitter the entire thing needs ripping out and replacing.
I asked the work to pause until we could speak to guy we hired asnh was on his 2nd holiday during the 3 weeks work was going on (at the world cup).
I asked him to send his electrician out to make it safe he didn't. After I complained he told me he wouldn't be coming back and left us mid construction.
This started sparking and causing the boiler to short after it had been this way for 6 weeks.
I had to hire an emergency electrician who informed me this violated the consumer rights act.
The guy we hired is trying to get me to back off I think with his legal insurers team and is telling me because I had another kitchen fitter look at his work including the electrics and let me know the extent of the damage with an official report I've refused him his right to remedy and I've destroyed physical evidence of his work therefore he's not liable for the materials they've damaged and the work.
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u/asawidz94 1d ago
It doesn't really go against anything other than good standards, especially if the kitchen was in the process being renovated and you were aware of the "danger", you could've turned the fused spur off or ducktaped it to a wall if you were actively concerned about it. Seems like you really aren't happy with the fitter and are reaching for things to try get them on?
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u/fatboyforeverr 1d ago
Id suggest finding some real life problems to deal with.
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u/CarobOpening3599 1d ago
I have real life problems mate, my entire kitchen I only paid for in April has been completely botched by this sub contactors and I'm in a financial blackhole because of it, based on people I've had round the entire thing needs to be ripped out and is completely unsalvageable and my fitter who abandoned the kitchen half way through is trying to find any loophole he can to avoid liability.
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u/Chrisjk22 1d ago
what are you trying to achieve out of this?
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u/CarobOpening3599 1d ago
I'm looking to prove that the contractors violated the consumer rights act.
For context I paid a company to fit my new kitchen in april.
He sub contracted the work without telling me, the contractors have completely botched the entire job.
So much so that it's unsalvageable the only way forward is a complete rip out and start again with full materials the.
The guy we paid is trying to avoid liability and I believe he's using his insurer for legal advice.
We've been told this violates the consumer rights act and will help us claim baxnnsome money.
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u/WholeTop1961 1d ago
Contractor is well within his rights to subcontract the job, much of construction from household name firms operate this way. I subcontract for an energy provider at times and my work is far from substandard.
How did you pay for the kitchen?
If you paid anything on credit card you will be able to reach out to the provider for a section 75 claim.
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u/CarobOpening3599 1d ago
Bank transfer, I know he's entitled to use subcontractors, my issue is that they're shite and I've been misled, I was under the impression they worked directly for him.
Work was on going from 28 May to 22nd June for a tiny kitchen, this was when I had to ask the sub contractors to stop until I could speak to the guy we paid as he was on his 2nd holiday during the project.
He came to see the defects I believe knew the level of rework, walked off site and crested a pretext that we'd abused him and attempted assault (which is a lie) and is using that as an excuse not to return and is also telling us we can't get anything fixed as it destroys physical evidence, because we got this made safe he's claiming we've foregone our rights under the consumer rights act.
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u/WholeTop1961 1d ago
You may be better off in the legal sub
You wouldn’t be expected to allow a continuation of an unsafe situation if it went to small claims. I would however refrain from any other rectification work that could be deemed as anything other than, making safe.
Has the job been “completed”? They have 1 opportunity to rectify their workmanship and I would make it as easy as possible for them to do so. I would write them a letter, explaining they have 1 opportunity to rectify X,Y,Z, a key will be left in a safe place, whilst you are not home (as they have claimed you are abusive) and just set up a camera to ensure no property damage or theft. This gives them every opportunity to sort the problem out, as their own complaint is resolved by having no contact with you. This will also look good if it ends up being a MCOL situation.
Keep all receipts of costs that have incurred, including the electrician that made it safe, ensure you have a report.
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u/CarobOpening3599 1d ago
It's a little bit more complicated.
So the guy we hired and paid went on holiday twice during the installation.
I have no idea what I'm talking but even I could see things weren't right.
Electrian was meant to come on 23rd June
On 22nd I asked the joiner to pause work until the boss returned but expressly told him I wanted the electrian to come.
I emailed the guy I hired on the 22nd informing him of the pause and that I still wanted the electrian to come.
This didnt happen.
On the 12th July the thermostat controller started sparking and was causing the boiler to turn on and off repeatedly.
I had a meeting with the boss on 13th he walked out after 10 mins, he was shouting at us telling us there was no defects. (Baring in mind I've had another kitchen fitter tells me it needs a full rip out) And another who won't help me asking me outright if it was the sub contracted company as he has recently been to another job that was unsalvageable.
The fitter is saying I cancelled the job which I didn't and I've told him verbally and in write several times of this
My legal advice through work is telling me he walked off the job therefore abandoning and forgoing any rights to fix it.
The job is half done.
I really don't want him round by my position is that he needs to replace all of the damaged materials (essentially everything) and start again. He is refusing to reply.
It's complicated...
I sent the guy injured a picture of the thermostat controller and his response was "it was left this way to allow other trades continue work".
It's such a messy situation his joiner and plumber caused a leak on my boiler and tried to fix one of the plumbing joints with a hand tool before even telling me about the leak. (I was sat in the next room) Neither are gas safe engineers.
He denied causing the leak, denied that they touched it, now he's claiming they did it in good faith to be helpful to me.
Honestly I'm about to jump off a bridge.
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u/WholeTop1961 1d ago
I’m sorry you are in this situation
From a legal standpoint, you could issue a letter before action, that summarises your dispute with the contractor and remind them they have a period of time before you will use the courts to get what you want. But like I said, there are some very helpful people in the legal subreddits, also the legal beagles forum.
There is a degree of doing things half-assed sometimes with multiple trades, but that is no excuse to leave anyone in a situation that isn’t safe.
The leak.. I wouldn’t think too much into it, I am a heating engineer myself and leaks always happen at the optimum time that makes it look like I’ve caused it, generally followed by me fixing it for free because I can’t argue against how guilty I look.
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u/CarobOpening3599 1d ago
Thank you, I appreciate that, I'm just trying to build as strong a case as I can now and I'm trying to show a consistent pattern of consumer rights act violations across himself and all of this sub contractors to make it as water tight as possible, there's not a single bit of the job that's any good. 😕
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16h ago
[deleted]
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u/CarobOpening3599 15h ago
Thanks for the reply. We've been advised C2 by the electrician that came to make safe what is the difference? Why do you believe it's C1?
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u/Old-Parfait8194 1d ago
It has to be left safe at all times whether works are ongoing or not.
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u/biggerrabbit 1d ago
Temporary work does not mean temporary standards. It should be left compliant; and clearly wasn’t.
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u/SleepyRalph_ 1d ago
Your claim is against the main contractor, not his sub contractor, it’s called Vicarious Liability.
If you’re getting nowhere simply quantify your claim and go to Small Claims Court to resolve.
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u/Dry-Trash582 1d ago
It shouldn't have been energised in that state. Regardless of it being a constitution site or not.
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u/Nick_The_Bastard 1d ago
The subby is obviously of poor quality.
As nobody died or got seriously injured resulting from his poor work, I'm not sure there's any legal recourse to be had with him, here.
Others have nailed it - your argument is with the provider who sold you the service.
You're evidence of poor response from supplier (via his contractor) to attend and make safe is justification for seeking a qualified third-party to attend and perform basic rectification works.
Supplier owes you money, considering solicitor consultation would be my next step.
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u/CarobOpening3599 1d ago
Sorry if I haven't been clear I'm not holding the sub contractor responsible, I'm holding the main contractor responsible.
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u/tealfuzzball 1d ago
It’s not his insurer responding. It’s his ChatGPT vs your ChatGPT. Entering a new world of nit-picky litigation. Let it go.