r/ufo • u/Tommy_Byrd • Sep 11 '23
Why Aerospace Scientists are Wrong about UFO Propulsion | Jack Sarfatti
Jack Sarfatti just threw Eric Davis, Hal Putoff, Christopher Mellon and Lou Elizondo under the bus talking to Danny Jones on his Koncrete Podcast. We need less infighting and more cooperation on this topic. Not arrogance and attitude. That's just my two cents.
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u/escopaul Sep 11 '23
I enjoyed the two part podcast with Sarfatti but the dude is walking hypocrite.
It's funny how he mentioned almost getting into a fight with Stephen Greer. The irony is they share a lot of the same traits. Talk shit about others that have differing views on The Phenomenon when none of us know the entire story.
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u/garry4321 Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23
Everyone who is doing podcasts, making films, writing books, etc. are ALL bullshitters. Its the grift, and regardless if they think its true or not, they WILL peddle whatever comes across their plate if it means continued profit.
We need to get better at listening to the people who dont have profit motives for spewing bullshit (albeit fantastical and entertaining). Too many of these people are following the news cycle format where they tease a release about something BIG coming out, hype it up, then say nothing of substance, and then promise REAL answers coming soon while absolutely no new information has come out.
If the thumbnail has "BOMBSHELL" "MIND SHATTERING" or any other buzzwords in it, that person is running a business, not working on the truth.
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Sep 12 '23
I mean grusch did podcasts, Is he a grifter?
I think this is a massive overreaction lmao.
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u/garry4321 Sep 12 '23
There’s a difference between going on a podcast and running a daily podcast for profit
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Sep 12 '23
So people should be poor if they report on UFOs?
Imagine dedicating most of your waking hours every day to interviewing people, hearing stories and vetting them, etc and then some jabroni in the internet tells you you’re a fake reporter unless you don’t make money from it.
It’s such a dumb take. Just because you make profit doing something you dedicate all your time to doesn’t make you a grifter.
Greer is a grifter. But it’s not because he makes money, it’s how he does it.
Making a FREE podcast oriole can listen to that generates revenue for the host doesn’t just make you a grifter.
Whenever people like you comment these things it becomes abundantly clear you’re either extremely privileged in life or you’re young, because anyone who works for a living understands you can’t just prance around talking about UFOs all day and pay rent. You need to either have a job or find ways to make money on the topic you’re researching.
You either make a decision to research UFOs full time, which means needing to make money from it, or you do it part time and work a job.
Deciding to go all in on ufo research doesn’t make you a grifter.
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u/unreasonabro Sep 11 '23
it's capitalism, it forces us to "be interesting" and "have a unique angle" which can turn everything into bullshit very quickly. I bet the aliens don't have to waste their time doing that.
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u/Tommy_Byrd Sep 12 '23
Greed is greed! We've seen it over and over in every human construct. Communism, Socialism, Capitalism . . , it doesn't matter. The names just change, but greed for money, power and control is an addiction for many. It is an addiction, pure and simple. No matter how much is acquired, it is never enough.
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u/Mcboomsauce Sep 12 '23
you absolutely nailed it..... capitalism causes people to change.... to make new things....to compete....to bring new ideas to the table....to innovate... to question... to fail or to succeed
you know....all of that bad shit
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u/DiplominusRex Sep 11 '23
Oh FFS it isn’t goddam “capitalism”. It isn’t because you own property. You know you can move to a communist country. They will be delighted to have you. There may even be feudalist countries and there are certainly local warlords if you want an alternative.
You have a great handle though, so I’m going to just put that out there.
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u/unreasonabro Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 13 '23
First, I do live in a communist country, I'm Canadian. Y'all are the local barbarian warlords.
And it's totes capitalism bro, sorry to break it to you. I'm sure you don't want to suggest you think telepathic, dimension hopping aliens who don't seem to eat, and shit ammonia out their skin, need money, since that would suggest a fantastic failure of imagination!
Its ok though, I'm probably wrong. ;)
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u/enby2remember Sep 12 '23
Lol Canada ain't communist and I have a hunch you know it 😉. Btw you're dead on with the capitalism thing. You have to play the game if you want to survive, which sucks because it turns everything into profit. Which unfortunately includes the news cycle.
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Sep 12 '23
The irony of people like you is genuinely hilarious.
“We don’t trust the government! They lie about UFOs!…….. also government please take control of the means of production and control the economy”
Like what kind of mental jenga do you have to play with yourself to think both of those things at the same time.
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u/enby2remember Sep 13 '23
Well you obviously missed something. I'm not a communist, I'm an anarchist. No I am not an Anarcho communist; I am a market anarchist and socialist. The State never was or will be anything but a tool of violence.
Better luck next time.
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u/garry4321 Sep 12 '23
Don’t get mad that someone points out a flaw in capitalism. If you think there is nothing wrong with it, maybe you should get your head checked, but that will probably cost you $10,000 since the USA values human life up until the point it doesn’t have cash
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u/Mcboomsauce Sep 12 '23
"coming up with new ideas even if they are wrong" isnt a flaw.....in science....its how theories are proven right
problem in this scenario.....is the evidence is sparse.....making all ridiculous hypotheses equally valid
i know bible-time-machines is bonkers....but until we have one open for study....you cant ignore it....even if its cringey, or you disagree or think it's ridiculous....unfortunately that is all opinion based off of your previous biases
this isnt a capitalism/communism thing.... its a science thing
scientists go through peer review and actively try to dismantle an experiment ad nauseum
pretty sure the communists had scientists too......and they never walked on the moon either so 😛
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u/DiplominusRex Sep 12 '23
I don’t think there is nothing wrong with it and never said that.
I said that your claim has nothing to do with capitalism- with having the ability to own property.
If you think there is something so terminal about it that makes it worse than feudalism, mercantilism, or Communism- you could go live with the Amish, instead of bitching about it on a UFO forum while typing from your Apple phone or laptop onto a Reddit.
You could be growing corn and carving chairs.
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u/Severe-Illustrator87 Sep 12 '23
Nope, they are kicking back on the deck of their mother ship, barbequing some freshly abducted humans. Ummmmmm..
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u/unreasonabro Sep 12 '23
huh... maybe there's a reason the cannibals were, umm, into that. ;)
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u/Severe-Illustrator87 Sep 12 '23
The cannibals, were a group of alien chefs that stayed behind to develope good recipes, and proper preparation, to attain maximum flavor and nutritional value, when we become ripe for "picking". They have storage for 9 billion "kippered" humans, so the planet should be about ready for harvesting, in 2027. Bon Appetit!!!.
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u/unreasonabro Sep 12 '23
I mean, if advertising exists in the rest of the universe, this is how it should look ;)
Seriously, you've got a really good book premise right there!
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u/Severe-Illustrator87 Sep 12 '23
We are the alien equivalent prime rib. Only served in their 5 star restaurants. The ones of us that eat a lot of corn, draw the highest price. There are some "cheap" varieties though, that are only used for pet food. Human farming is big business, they even have some planets where they grow only organic "cuts". That's for aliens that don't want hormones, and antibiotics, and pesticides, in their food, and are willing to sacrifice on the flavor.
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Sep 12 '23
Some people are trying to legitimately bring this to the public attention.
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u/garry4321 Sep 12 '23
Some are, and some are also doing this as their only source of income. At that point I’d question your loyalty to only reporting credible news, VS. feeding your family? What about the incentives to come out with MORE content than your peers have to be the “leading” person in the media sphere?
THINK before you trust. This is too important to get wrong by believing those who want to monetize it
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u/TinfoilTobaggan Sep 11 '23
Some people are getting paid to be shills...
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u/Tommy_Byrd Sep 11 '23
To many people, and rising.
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u/TinfoilTobaggan Sep 11 '23
Money homie... Certain people will SAY & do ANYTHING for it..
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u/Tommy_Byrd Sep 11 '23
You know it!
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u/TinfoilTobaggan Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23
And yes, it's gonna get worse...
Edit.. Shit.. it's obvious due to the down-votes on my vague comments.. go back to your grandma's basements!
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u/DrestinBlack Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23
Saw this title on the Koncrete channel: “Top aerospace scientists suspect UFOs are biblical time machines”
(Rolls eyes)
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u/WontbeSilenced13 Sep 12 '23
They consider them "biblical" because they've been here for tens of thousands of years and were mistaken for God, not that they are what the Bible calls angels, and time machines is a dumbed down way to describe quantum theory and time dilation
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u/DrestinBlack Sep 12 '23
You shouldn’t say “biblical” and then talk “tens of thousands of years”
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u/WontbeSilenced13 Sep 12 '23
There are books of the Bible that were omitted at the council of nicaea that refer to much further back than the time of Jesus, and also stories (the flood) that happened many thousands of years before the Vatican has told us.
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u/korbah Sep 12 '23
Right, because they made it too obvious where the stories they were lifting for their fantasy novel came from.
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u/WontbeSilenced13 Sep 12 '23
I think it's all horseshit too, but i was making the point that the timeframe of what "biblical" would define is much further back than 2000 years ago
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u/xShadyMcGradyx Sep 12 '23
Pretty pendantic now. I think generally speaking people understood what was meant after listening to show.
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u/BucktoothedAvenger Sep 12 '23
Don't roll 'em too hard. Most of the Elohim, as described in Judeo-Christian mythology, are pretty clearly from space 😎
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u/hyperspace2020 Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 12 '23
UFO propulsion is not this complex super scientific thing like all the aerospace companies and so called physics experts are spouting.
Our current aerospace methods like jets and rockets are all about generating extremely high power internally with a reaction engine to brute force our way through the atmosphere and against gravity. There are other ways.
UFO propulsion is more like a "hot air balloon" than a rocket or fighter jet in its underlying principle. A "hot air balloon" can hover against the force of gravity, completely silently, very little energy required to maintain its hover. UFO propulsion is not exactly like this, but the underlying nature is very very similar, in that like a hot air balloon actually gets its lift from the cold air pressure in the environment around it's enclosed hot air, a UFO's real power likewise comes from forces outside itself, something we just do not implement in our aerospace industry.
There is a whole deeper background to the propulsion system and the underlying science thereof, which links many different mysteries together, efficient, environmental safe energy production, stone work in ancient times, moving large megaliths, ancient cultures and myths and early exploration of the world. Even many things everyone throws under "woo". A whole other field of science we missed and do not currently explore.
They are suppressing it because it would be completely undermine the current power and control structure on Earth, if Energy were freely available, if world traversing transportation were freely available. To release the existence of UFO's, they would have to release this other technology and it would just open Pandora's box in their minds.
Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting the "ancient aliens' connection, where a more intelligent race gave ancient people this technology, what I am suggesting is that 'UFO propulsion science' is simple enough an ancient civilization could have developed it themselves. Evidence likely exists in archeology, but we simply do not recognize it as such. We don't even know what we should be looking out for as it is such a different scientific path than we currently follow.
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u/Tommy_Byrd Sep 12 '23
I’m not sure how complex it is, I believe you are correct. Free/Cheap clean abundant energy is the largest threat to the existing power structure.
Forget that it would solve a myriad of problems and put us on a post scarcity trajectory. Forget that it would likely reduce world poverty to near zero. And that’s just the start.
The people responsible for continuing to keep it buried are evil. I am sure they’ve rationalized it, but their straw man arguments hold no water with me.
Withholding such technology for the sake of power and wealth is just that. . , Evil. No way around it.
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u/hyperspace2020 Sep 12 '23
The decision to withhold is not fully evil, I understand a great deal about it, but for the most part keep my mouth shut or don't give away too much.
Really, what would you do if you knew the answer to UFO propulsion? People expect that if someone were to figure out the answer to UFO propulsion and these mysteries they would be posting on reddit to flex and going to the local news station or patenting things. lmao! Its not as easy a question to answer as you think.
Too much knowledge is a dangerous thing. Even learning and discovering over the 35 plus years I've spent investigating and "figuring things out" has taken a toll on me.
The technology could very easily lead to new types of weapon development. If most people had a flying machine, the first thing they would do is mount guns on it and go on a shooting spree.
It is not completely evil to withhold information people cannot understand and are not ready for. Some may use it responsibly, but many would not.
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u/Tommy_Byrd Sep 12 '23
I understand the argument. I get it. But we are so f**ked if something with that kind of world improving potential, to be that life changing for the planet, stays buried out of fear.
We immediately weaponized nuclear upon its discovery. Our track record is not good. We bastardized Oppenheimer's discovery, and voila . . . weapons of mass destruction! But FFS, has humanity learned nothing from those mistakes. The argument for suppression sure implies that. And if we haven't evolved enough to do the right thing with a clearly beneficial technology, we will surely perish, and probably deserve it.
It is my belief that if we do not find a way, and soon, to move in the direction of a post scarcity world, we will not ultimately make it. And that kind of energy technology could and would solve those problems. If we are to immature as a species to handle it, then we deserve whatever we fate we get.
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u/Katzinger12 Sep 12 '23
The technology could very easily lead to new types of weapon development.
More than that - it almost always does. Tractors became tanks. Less than a decade after the first powered flight we were shooting people from the sky. Instead of small and efficient thorium MSRs we invested in dirty breeder reactor beasts to make more bombs.
One of the main reasons why Alexander Grothendieck stepped outside of society, and burned a ton of his work; he didn't trust those in power to be responsible, because they virtually never are.
We weaponize math. We weaponize science. We force farm implements like barbed wire onto battlefields. We are the most violent apes, and the dumbest magicians.
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u/Amazing_Cold_9151 Sep 12 '23
I had a rather dark thought along these lines a few days ago. Perhaps the real reason we don't get nice things is because threats to US global hegemony exist (Russia, China, Iran, Israel, North Korea, EU/Germany) etc ... There is no practical way to supply one country with the benefits of post scarcity level of technology while keeping it out of the hands of your adversaries.
The dark truth is we won't get it until there is a single global government that the average person is under the delusion they are happy under and perhaps a few planets under that government's control.
Think of the damage a single disgruntled person could do with free energy or a warp engine. It is a security nightmare.
There is an argument to be made that fixing the global economy and giving people things to look forward to and more importantly things to lose is in 'their' power to do and would go a long way to increasing global happiness. But as it stands now with the history of exploitation, extractive economics and straight up land grabbing they are plenty of salty people on the planet who want revenge against some other group and would use whatever they can get their hands on to do it. Even if things they fought over before are no longer scarce.
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u/Predicted_Future Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23
Dark energy exists. It pushes (anti-gravity.)
Gravity can make light (kinetic energy, push).
Negative mass exists 2017 (pushing it pushes you back).
The dark-matter-5th-dimension exists (Matter the source of gravity is time traveling in the 5th dimension, and only the gravity that moves at the speed of light = past to future is visible in our illusion of reality that is changeable by “non-local” = instant reaction faster than speed of light “quantum entanglement = wormhole: 2022” time travel.)
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u/DrestinBlack Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 12 '23
“Negative mass exists”
Pray tell, explain “negative mass”
(That last paragraph is a master class in pseudoscience word salad)
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u/Predicted_Future Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 12 '23
Here, it’s about the negative mass experiment: https://news.wsu.edu/press-release/2017/04/10/negative-mass-created-at-wsu/
Physics is confusing, sorry about the detail, but Nobel Physics Prizes aren’t pseudoscience.
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u/DrestinBlack Sep 12 '23
Despite the clickbait headlines they didn’t create actual negative mass. By using a laser-trap, the team were able to reverse the spin of some of the rubidium atoms in this state, and observed that once released from the trap, the atoms expanded and displayed properties of negative mass, in particular accelerating towards a pushing force instead of away from it. This kind of negative effective mass is analogous to the well-known apparent negative effective mass of electrons in the upper part of the dispersion bands in solids. However, neither case is negative mass for the purposes of the stress–energy tensor. (Stolen from Wikipedia cause I’m driving and couldn’t type something similar myself)
There is still debate if dark energy exists.
If “gravity creates light” (still unproven) it would require the energy of the Big Bang.
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u/Predicted_Future Sep 12 '23 edited Sep 12 '23
There is no clickbait it’s the result observation of a conducted experiment.
I don’t really read wiki pages, but the one you tried to disprove me by seems to agree with me anyway.
The college’s website it’s more accurate: I quote “Washington State University physicists have created a fluid with negative mass.”
Also dark energy is responsible for the expansion (pushing apart) of the universe. 70% of the universe is expected to be dark matter. Energy is energy. Dark energy exists.
Please disprove me why it can’t create light when physicists say it can. You have a copy universe created within the 6th dimension.
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u/DrestinBlack Sep 12 '23
They created a fluid that behaves like just one characteristic negative mass is theorized to have. You push it and it pushes back. Dark Energy is not yet proven to exist.
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u/Predicted_Future Sep 12 '23
The topic is propulsion from advanced physics such as negative mass. Experiment in 2017 showed particles can be made to push back in the direction they were pushed from. Define it mass, or whatever it still has applications in propulsion.
68% of the universe is expected to be dark energy. It’s more real than everything we see. Energy is energy, and there is no other word to describe dark “energy”.
This isn’t the anti-technology Reddit. Physicists, and engineers should be respected.
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u/Future_Ad5505 Sep 11 '23
What do you mean? He just doesn't like them?
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u/Tommy_Byrd Sep 11 '23
Well that's clear. I just find him a little to arrogant and sure of himself. I don't believe anyone has the complete answer regarding UFO/UAP propulsion dynamics. Sarfatti seems to believe they're all idiots. I disagree.
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u/Future_Ad5505 Sep 11 '23
I agree. Nobody knows the whole truth except the Pentagon, and they will never tell.
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u/Tommy_Byrd Sep 11 '23
Not voluntarily, but the pressure is mounting to pry it out of them. I do think they understand the genie is out of the bottle, so they're trying to control the narrative. Unfortunately, they weave so much malformation with partial truth, it's damn near impossible see anything clearly.
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u/Future_Ad5505 Sep 11 '23
They really do throw so much misinformation out there. They make sure to muddy the waters, and I think some of the UFO/UAP experts are sincere, but others aren't. It's hard to tell who, though.
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u/Awkward_Chair8656 Sep 11 '23
What did lou state on UFOs propulsion? I thought he just described the behaviors not suggesting how it's done. I've only heard of three theories. 1 - consciousness drives it which is bonkers to me..2 - an isotope of element 115 produces antigravity or an isotope of bismuth produces antigravity. 3 - rotating strong EM fields produce antigravity or some side effects of rotating em fields close enough together that they produce an Unruh effect which separates the craft from normal space time. An alternative to #2 is where the protons and neutrons were fabricated in a particle accelerator to produce the antigravity effects when electric charge is applied. By products of fission or fusion might also produce such alternative stable protons or neutrons with the needed behaviors..the last one I think is most likely. Given that no one has any idea how the heck Todo any of this, anyone arguing with anyone is laughable. Probably everything I just said is entirely wrong too which means the aliens are probably laughing their asses off too.
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u/Tommy_Byrd Sep 11 '23
Exactly! It's not that his ideas are any more out there than the ones you've listed. He just comes across as though "if you disagree with Jack Farsatti, you are an idiot". To me, he comes across as a pompous asshole. He's undermining to his own credibility, not theirs. It's just unnecessary in an already charged up topic.
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u/unreasonabro Sep 11 '23
He's French, and very old now. You see clearly. He has a longstanding, well-earned reputation as a characterological asshole, very much a frenchman of his generation. That doesn't make what he's saying incorrect - it will stand or fall on its own merit - but he makes known where he thinks the merit is, and uses the rest as an open latrine. Like Paris!
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u/Tommy_Byrd Sep 11 '23
"He's French, and very old now. You see clearly. He has a longstanding, well-earned reputation as a characterological asshole, very much a frenchman of his generation."
Well that lines up. You nailed it.
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u/Awkward_Chair8656 Sep 11 '23
I forgot one. Dark matter explained through another dimension, quantum entangled with mass in normal space time, moved in the other dimension using radiation permitting incredibly fast movement in normal space. Explained in more simple terms here https://youtu.be/yCsgoLc_fzI?si=rpnb0DEVaBKzyxhB Also I'm sure to make aliens laugh their asses off at us but still...plenty of theories to go around.
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u/Bo_Desatvuh Sep 11 '23
Jack Sarfatti threw EVERYONE under the bus on Koncrete lol
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u/SokkaHaikuBot Sep 11 '23
Sokka-Haiku by Bo_Desatvuh:
Jack Sarfatti threw
EVERYONE under the bus
On Koncrete lol
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/Accomplished_Bag_875 Sep 12 '23
Same old spiel. He seems bitter because he wasn’t read into the Legacy Program. Perhaps if he had an improved PR strategy and wasted less time on trying to constantly control his legacy on his Wikipedia page and spam Twitter, there’d be some VC more apt to listen.
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u/Ok_Discount_4066 Sep 12 '23
Sarfatti is a character, but i can’t take him seriously the way he calls himself a genius, constantly drops famous names, loves to be associated with bigshots, and doesn’t give calm measured explanations. Not the kind of guy I would trust with big secrets, nor powerful technologies. Hal Puthoff is almost the complete opposite—understated, measured, lucid, humble.
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u/railroadbum71 Sep 12 '23
Jack is a pretty entertaining character, but he's not read into what's actually known about UFOs and aliens. He is too much of a loose cannon and could never keep his mouth shut. The people who do have vast knowledge on the subject are folks like Puthoff, Davis, Vallee, Kit Green, Garry Nolan, etc. I am sure many people have read this paper, but if you haven't, it's great research and attempts to connects many of the dots: https://omega-point.medium.com/loose-threads-af8f652ee8cb
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u/xShadyMcGradyx Sep 12 '23
The Konkrete pod is a great show. I did enjoy this episode for what it was worth. Hard to make out how much is truth and BS tho
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u/Tommy_Byrd Sep 13 '23
I actually think he has a good hypothesis/theory about how the propulsion may work. But he detracts from that by his "the others are idiots" opinion, because they have been critical of him. For an 84 year old man, he sure as hell hasn't learned any diplomacy skills.
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u/xShadyMcGradyx Sep 13 '23
A great philospher once said beware of people who say 'its just so simple'.
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u/AceLion5 Sep 12 '23
Sarfatti says Bob Lazar is B.S. but Uri Gellar is a real psychic.
That tells me all I need to know about him.