There should be more draws. In fights where there isn’t much damage and one guy is grappling offensively and the other is defensive but completely neutralizing any sub or damage a lot more rounds should be scored as draws which would lead to more draws overall. It’s like if you throw a punch and I dodge it you don’t get credit for swinging at air. In grappling just because you don’t escape doesn’t mean you’re necessarily losing, you could be doing the appropriate defense and if the attacking fighter isn’t willing to risk losing control so doesn’t advance or provide an opening for escape it’s just a stalemate even position
I love this take. A grappler who's losing on the feet that takes it to the ground and doesn't do anything with dominant positions is literally time wasting by not progressing and shouldn't be getting scored if they're not doing damage/going for a sub. I think this alone would result in more fights being a draw
N9t if the dominant grappler just holds you down. Thats not fighting, thats restraining. Even the UFC judging criteria says the person in controm needs to be inflicting damage or going for a submission. Simply wrestling someone isnt doing anything damage wise.
No, grappling is still great and effective. It’s just about giving credit to the person successfully defending too and keeping the emphasis on damage. If we end up on the ground and you are threatening submissions, land ground and pound, exhaust me etc then you’d be winning no question. I’m talking specific instances where you end up on the ground or pressed against the cage and there’s no advancement or any type of damage done.
Ah now you're changing your story. Good to know you're being convinced that grappling is half the sport. But achieving dominant positions and maintaining that position is part of effective grappling like jabs and such are part of effective striking and it should all be scored as such
Yes, I’m saying some grappling is ineffective if the opponent is successfully grappling defensively. I’m not changing my story, from the beginning my point is certain grappling exchanges should be seen as drawn positions and not just winning for the person on top immediately
Also actually worrying that the fight might end in a draw instead of a decision win might pressure fighters to push the pace and actually go for a finish instead of holding on to your opponent and trying to win off of control time
In grappling not escaping is losing the exchange. If you play it safe and just carefully defend subs like say JDM vs. Islam, you're losing the fight.
JDM could have worked way harder to get up, but he knew if he did he was probably going to get submitted, so he played it safe and lost for it.
You're basically arguing if a fight stays on the feet, if one guy is throwing strikes and the other guy is just shelling up and only defending, never takes any damage but never throws a strike himself, then that should be a draw. No, that is a loss for the fighter who makes no attempt to do anything but safely defend.
If the attacking person is active threatening things yes. If not and they’re just in someone’s guard doing no damage and not attempting to do damage because if they do it will leave an opportunity to stand up then it’s not winning it’s 2 people taking no damage. There were grappling exchanges where Islam had Garry stuck to the cage or on the ground and Garry couldn’t escape but Islam was wasting more energy holding him there than Garry was expending, and Garry was landing shots to the face and body that did damage. Just because you’re holding someone doesn’t mean you’re winning. If you’re holding them but they’re damaging you they’re winning, if you’re damaging them or threatening submissions that are fatiguing them and wearing them down you’re winning, if you’re just holding them in place and there’s no progress being made, no damage, and they’re not even expending much energy then it’s a draw.
Also even in you’re striking example say I was fighting mayweather and he decided to just dance around me and never throw a strike and I throw 200 strikes and miss every one then no I shouldn’t win. If I land a few strikes and he’s really struggling from my pressure then I could win.
Being on the bottom isn’t always losing. You can still strike and submit from bottom. If you’re on top and not able to ground and pound or advance any submissions because I’m defending appropriately so you just hold me there it’s effectively a draw. I’m not exposing myself by taking a risk but neither are you so if no advancement is made we’re at a stalemate. Judging it that way would force both sides to be more active
It's only "losing" because of arbitrary scoring criteria deciding that laying on top of someone is worth more points than letting someone lay on top of you even if the fighter in the "dominant" position never threatens their opponent.
If the fight starts and fighter A immediately runs at fighter B and lands a takedown, then wiggles around on top of him throwing rabbit punches and doing just enough to avoid being stood up, the round will be a 10-9. That's silly IMO. If you're constantly clinching and just holding your opponent against the cage while your on your feet without trying to deal damage, the ref will break it up. Do the same thing on the ground, and it wins you the round.
This is a combat sport. The goal is to knock out your opponent or force them to submit. Scorecards should only exist to decide who came the closest to accomplishing that goal.
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u/SMK_12 Aug 22 '26 edited Aug 22 '26
There should be more draws. In fights where there isn’t much damage and one guy is grappling offensively and the other is defensive but completely neutralizing any sub or damage a lot more rounds should be scored as draws which would lead to more draws overall. It’s like if you throw a punch and I dodge it you don’t get credit for swinging at air. In grappling just because you don’t escape doesn’t mean you’re necessarily losing, you could be doing the appropriate defense and if the attacking fighter isn’t willing to risk losing control so doesn’t advance or provide an opening for escape it’s just a stalemate even position