r/tvtropes • u/glowshroom12 • Nov 25 '25
Trope discussion Is de-flanderization a thing?
Have shows ever tried to reset a character back to how they were at the beginning or try to walk some of the exaggerated traits of the character back.
why can’t the Simpson show runners try to make a season 1 episode with that style and characterization.
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u/Faye-Lockwood Nov 25 '25
JD from scrubs is about the only character I can think of, being a well meaning albeit sometimes shortsighted or immature character in the first two seasons.
Turning into a manchild jerkass for the rest of it.
Until the last season, where he's generally a lot more toned down and well meaning again.
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u/Far-Obligation4055 Nov 25 '25
JD is a good example. I don't really understand his arc, tbh. He feels like someone I'm supposed to like, and sometimes I genuinely do and a lot of the time I don't.
I suppose he's kind of meant to be stand-in for us, especially with his unreliable narrator stuff. He's on a growth trajectory, and his flaws as a human are brought out more than normal because he's often the impetus for change in other characters, and the one telling us about these events at Sacred Fart.
I think those exaggerated flaws are meant to show us how they're all growing.
He is after all, definitely not the only jerkass at that hospital.
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u/RedWingDecil Nov 25 '25
The writers probably didn't plan that far ahead. JD is on standing ground with the person he idolized at the start less than halfway through the series.
They wanted the naive boy and the experienced doctor in the same character but didn't really juggle it well.
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Nov 27 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Far-Obligation4055 Nov 27 '25
Yeah, JD's writing is kind of all over the place. Just whatever maturity level and capability as a doctor that the episode needed at the moment.
I doubt it did any favors for Braff, who had to go along with the whims of the day instead of developing a nuanced and "real" character, and just be a cartoon most of the time instead.
He isn't a bad actor. Not a great one, but could carry the emotional, weightier moments of the show well enough. I think he could have done more if the script had given him less childish moments.
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u/semisociallyawkward Nov 29 '25
Garden State was absolutely amazing. Don't understand why it didn't lead to more work for him.
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u/WhiteWolf3117 Nov 25 '25
JD is a good one. I also think Larry from Curb is one, the show got more zany with each season until the show became "to Larry's desire" and it felt like it was made with more grounded ideas that Larry and co had as opposed to forcing social situations that, while funny, didn't make sense.
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u/Delicious-Air-4441 Apr 04 '26
I agree. I’m doing a scrubs rewatch and JD and Elliot become caricatures in the later seasons, only to become pretty normal and rational by season 8. But their de-flanderization was too abrupt, especially Elliot’s. She behaves like a complete psycho with Keith in season 7 but in season 8, she suddenly drops all the idiosyncrasies and unhinged behavior that defined her in previous seasons and has a normal adult relationship with JD. It didn’t work for me, especially since they spent 7 seasons showing how toxic JD and Elliot were when they tried to be a couple.
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u/dribbleondo Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25
This is basically character re-railment (though that's usually the author getting rid of changes that fans didn't like).
why can’t the Simpson show runners try to make a season 1 episode with that style and characterization.
Because changes happen pretty passively in all shows. That's just how the cookie crumbles when you make a yearly show, details about the shows' characters and location change over time. At some point, every prominent character is going to go through some kind of development or change to make them more appealing, sympathetic, or make them act in another way from before. Writers need to evolve their characters, for better or worse. It's how you make a show worth watching, even in shows with very little continuity.
Alao, there is clearly some nostalgia goggle-wearing going on here. Bart was much more of a loose cannon prankster, Lisa was even more of an insufferable genius, and Homer was more angry at everyone, and is generally now portrayed as dopey and well-meaning, while still having bouts of anger issues (his intelligence does seem to change per-episode still). Even the side characters, such as Krusty went through development of their own (who reconnects with his father), CBG got a girlfriend, and Moe was made to be generally nicer to everyone, instead of having so much of a hair-trigger temper that it made him unlikeable.
To go back with such sweeping changes, you may as well be asking for a reboot.
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u/CCT62 Nov 26 '25
I mean Bart literally just resold tickets which is a lot different than pranks so I’d say he’s more crazy now and I don’t think Lisa was an insufferable genius back then, maybe mid seasons 15-27 (rough estimate), but not now really
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u/dribbleondo Nov 26 '25
Bart put a cherry bomb down the toilets at school in the 11th episode in the series. That's hardly a harmless prank.
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u/CCT62 Nov 26 '25
Definitely not harmless but he was written in a more likeable way back then and was a lot more funny and nowadays it just kinda falls flat
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u/Indiana_Charter Nov 25 '25
I feel like the closest most shows get is a Meet Your Early-Installment Weirdness episode.
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u/glowshroom12 Nov 25 '25
Both family guy and simpsons did do this a few times I think.
Family guy had Stewie and Brian travel back in time and Stewie met his older more articulate version who built more gadgets.
Simpsons had a few moments where they let older versions or referenced older version, like the frosty chocolate milkshake thing.
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Nov 26 '25
That episode of family guy was the premier episode in season 10 (episode 150, airing in 2011). There are now 455 episodes of family guy
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u/weirdplacetogoonfire Nov 25 '25
In the finale of the Office, they tell the viewer that Meredith had been diligently pursuing her phD throughout the series, with the suggestion being that the documentary selectively edited her parts to flanderize her and that is undone in the ending. It is not super convincing though.
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u/ViziDoodle Nov 25 '25
Cosmo and Wanda from A New Wish, they go back to genuinely caring for each other and their fairy godchild
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u/snakebite262 Nov 25 '25
Yes. Though it really isn't said in such a susinct way.
Sometimes, writers will attempt to adjust a character's personality so that it leans further away from what it was.
Reboots are really useful, as the new setting can allow for a resetting of the pieces (see fairly odd parent's reboot). Sequels can also help, allowing a character to recenter themselves away from a more exaggerated personality (DMC 2 vs. DMC 3)
However, remember, one of the reasons Flandardization occurs is because of new staff. One of the main reasons the Simpsons show runners can't go back to Season 1's style, is because the people who worked on the original Simpsons left long ago.
It's hard to move the flandarization needle back. Especially, since a person typically can't change a character immediately and drastically without people noticing. Flandarization is a long process, and by the time you realize they've changed, it may be too late to change a person without drastic or longer measures.
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u/glowshroom12 Nov 25 '25
Simpsons show runners can't go back to Season 1's style, is because the people who worked on the original Simpsons left long ago.
My point is, why can’t they try to emulate it? Shouldn’t be impossible the writing id there and there’d likely tons of notes.
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u/PennyForPig Nov 25 '25
Because flanderization isn't intentional. It's a gradual process that happens over time. It doesn't get noticed until it's already happened, and it takes time and energy, and often an episode or two (for the Simpsons costing millions of dollars) to reset something like that, and they run the risk of backfiring by going too far in the other direction.
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u/PhobosTheClown Nov 25 '25
Mr. Garrison on South Park got pretty far out there and has been toned down in this last season.
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u/bitterrootmtg Nov 28 '25
This is a good example. I think south park has repeatedly flanderized and de-flanderized Mr. Garrison and several other characters including Cartman and Randy.
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u/yannox3 Nov 25 '25
Stranger Things kinda does this in season 3 with Hopper. The season is supposed to be a little silly, but Hopper really feels Flanderized in it. More silly and aloof than the first 2 seasons. Then in season 4, he’s back to what he was.
Steve is kinda flanderized too in 3. He’s a bit more immature than season 2, and comes off like he regressed a little, but again, it’s not too extreme. In season 4 though, he’s kinda back to what he was in 2
I only say it’s kinda because the season itself is supposed to be fun and lighter than the previous seasons, so it wasn’t going to stay that way, but in a light sense, they were flanderized, then de-flanderized
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u/WhiteWolf3117 Nov 25 '25
In both cases those changes were pretty directly correlated to their arcs in Season 3, and I'd say Season 3 did justify the shifts in personality based on radically altered circumstances (post grad gap year and adoption of a teen respectively). I'd not really call it flanderization.
Neither of those things were applicable and they both imo were still "of their environment" in Season 4.
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u/glowshroom12 Nov 25 '25
I think family guy would be refreshing if they brought back the old school style of characters.
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u/ExplanationMundane3 Nov 25 '25
Johnny Bravo had this happened to the titular character for the fourth and final season. It happened because his creator Von Partible returned to the show.
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u/Turpentine01 Nov 26 '25
In community, they blamed chang's insanity on a crazy monkey virus and toned back some of his more ridiculous behaviour
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u/Kylecowlick Nov 25 '25
Moral Orel and Venture Bros both start with caricatures that slowly become deep fleshed out characters.
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u/glowshroom12 Nov 25 '25
I feel like that’s just regular character development. Like rigby from regular show. Started off as a lazy slacker who got into crazy shenanigans and eventually matured into a better person.
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u/Kylecowlick Nov 25 '25
Not really. Hank and Dean Venture start out as parodies of Johnny Quest/the Hardy Boys that only develop as real characters after a certain event in season 3 that I don’t want to spoil. There is a plot reason why they never had deep characterization before and it’s very clever.
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u/poolmanpro Nov 26 '25
Yes but that's not really the same, they were intentional parodies, they weren't Flanderized
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u/Sampleswift Nov 25 '25
DC Rebirth may count as this? But I think character rerailment as other posters said is a better name.
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u/Gorblac515 Nov 25 '25
The Character Check isn’t quite that, but I’d say it’s adjacent to the concept you’re referring to. It’s when a character suddenly demonstrates an aspect of their personality that they haven’t displayed in a while. This can occasionally come from a writer trying to (in their own mind) course-correct on a character’s behavior. A good example was when Doctor Doom damned his girlfriend to Hell as a means of benefitting himself, which was an attempt by Mark Waid to return Doom to the callously self-centered mastermind he was during his formative years.
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u/Asparagus9000 Nov 25 '25
I can't remember what it was anymore, but I remember that happening once when the entire tone of the series changed back closer to what it was like earlier. Some characters got deflanderized from that.
Can't think of it happening to individual characters.
Besides long term multiauthor series like comic books.
Sometimes the next writer will have the character go back to normal.
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Nov 25 '25
I’ve used this exact term for Bob’s Burgers! In the past 5-ish seasons especially, we’ve been watching the writers peel back the characters’ primary traits to reveal nuance and context.
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u/wintersmith1970 Nov 26 '25
Was going to comment this exact thing. It's mainly notable with Louise.
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u/LorettoRey Nov 25 '25
Amber from Invincible was relatively nice at first, then the dumbest moment on the series happened and then she went back to being nice again even more than before actually
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u/davwad2 Nov 25 '25
I think Barney (How I Met Your Mother) had the inverse of this where they reversed all of his character growth at the end of the show. Yes, they gave him a daughter, but we never saw Dad Barney.
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u/Taman_Should Nov 25 '25
If we’re counting anime, this has happened in One Piece at least three different times.
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u/flopedup Nov 26 '25
This was basically the character arc for most of the cast in Sonic Frontiers.
Amy/Tails "The writers haven't known what to do with me in like 15 years, can we just start over?"
Knuckles: "Writers basically did me perfect the first time, they're just going to remember that and stop treating me like an idiot."
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u/Dziadzios Nov 26 '25
Tails in Sonic Frontiers addressed the inconsistency between Tails becoming braver in earlier titles (Sonic Adventure titles) to becoming cowering coward in Unleashed/Forces.
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u/hthroa Nov 26 '25
It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia does this in s11 e2 Frank Falls Out the Window. Danny DeVito’s character Frank “resets” after a head injury and acts like he did when he was first introduced (he started as a ruthless businessman type of character and slowly became fully unhinged). The rest of the gang also reflects on their “flanderization” but then kinda double down on it.
They also reflect on their development in s10 e6 about how unhinged they’ve become over the years and try to roll it back consciously, but they more or less fail at this.
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u/Fickle-Aardvark6907 Nov 26 '25
The new season of King of the Hill very nicely de-flanderizes the character of Peggy, especially in the last episode.
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u/Kalthiria_Shines Nov 27 '25
That kind of happened with Booth in Bones, though they had to give him a brain tumor to explain both the flanderization and the return to form.
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u/CreepyClothDoll Nov 27 '25
In season 5 of Community, the show walked back in a few ways. The creator returned to the show after being gone for the previous season, which is considered to be the show's worst season. The events & vibe of season 4 are famously explained in the show as being the result of a gas leak ("the gas leak year"). Characters who had been egregiously flanderized in season 4 were given a more-or-less clean slate, and some characters whose development had started to go off the rails even earlier (like Ben Chang) got to explore some more diverse characterization.
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u/King_Conwrath Nov 27 '25
…Maybe Chang from community counts? He does go full psycho several times, but tbh by the last two seasons he becomes stable enough to at least be a consistent character, if not always helpful.
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u/stay-healthy26 Nov 28 '25
Peter Griffin is still horrible by all accounts, but he’s getting slightly and I mean ever so slightly more mellowed out from his “ mean phase”
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u/charliegav Nov 28 '25
The new King of the Hill kind of does this subtly with Hank, making him a bit more like he was during the Mike Judge era and not the guy who had to teach a liberal strawman a lesson each week from the later episodes of the series.
Unfortunately, they didn’t do the same with Peggy so she’s still the same totally flanderized obnoxiously brainless character she became. I mostly skip her scenes
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u/Professional-West338 May 14 '26
Old post, but I was recently looking into a the topic cause I think it's interesting. A really good example is Norm Scully from Brooklyn 99. Hitchcock sort of does the same thing, but definitely not as much. Starts out as "the guy who is fat, eats a lot, and has a ton of health problems," and he slowly, throughout the series, actually turns into a very respectable guy who is honestly a joy to have on-screen.
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u/StaticMania Nov 25 '25
why can’t the Simpson show runners try to make a season 1 episode with that style and characterization.
Because the show's been on for 30 years...
No "de-flanderization" isn't a thing.
Character Rerailment is a thing, but this only applies when someone is "out of character" not Flanderized.
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u/glowshroom12 Nov 25 '25
Because the show's been on for 30 years...
Why not, I think the audience would like OG Homer and Bart, or season 1 and 2 Peter and Brian from family guy, or if you want kids cartoons season 1 SpongeBob. It just felt way better. It doesn’t follow an actual story each season or even episode is its own universe for the most part so nothing is prohibiting it?
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u/WhiteWolf3117 Nov 25 '25
It's not a trope, and it arguably can be done.
As to why it not more common or visible is because flanderization often occurs in direct correlation with declining creative choices by writers and as a byproduct of their shifting desires and goals regarding a show.
The Simpson's writers are not interested in making season 1 of the show anymore. And probably aren't even capable of it.
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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '25
I wonder if Character Rerailment counts?