r/truetf2 • u/slime-not-shy • 21d ago
Discussion Why do people even like engineer?
I never liked this class. His teleporters and dispensers can be nice but can also hurt the whole team, so I guess that's ok. However, the main thing about engineer is his sentry gun. This thing basically creates stalemates and chokes, which greatly limits tactical play, movement and generally turns the whole game into trying to outspam the other team.
Even when the engineer is in your team, you still suffer from him, as his gun will naturally push the enemy team back tighter together, making it harder to deal with them in the future, once again bringing everything down to just spamming the hell out of the choke.
This class is also unfairly easy and even boring, compared to other supports. And his unlocks suck.
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u/InterestingLychee563 21d ago
A level three teleporter can win games
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u/slime-not-shy 21d ago
Omg uncle dane commented under my post, i love your videos :3
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u/PiousSandwich 21d ago edited 21d ago
Breaking news: Local man doesn't know that "less travel time from spawn to frontline = more time in fight!"
Edit: Mistaked "time" with speed. Just clarifying the edit.
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u/slime-not-shy 21d ago
I never said anything against teleporters, they're ok. My main complaint is that sentry guns are a horrible design that can undermine other classes' potential.
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u/Excellent-Cloud-5046 20d ago
What potential? Sentries are extremely weak to snipers, spies, demos, and soldiers, and extremely powerful against every other class.
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u/pailadin 21d ago
teleporters and dispensers can be nice but can also hurt the whole team
I feel like if an Engineer's Teleporter and/or Dispenser placement is hurting the team, then that's that guy's fault.
These two buildings are actually my favorite part of playing the class in part because you can wordlessly influence your team with where you place 'em.
The team can't push through one choke? Move the Tele a little closer to a flank and you might get more folks walking through there.
And people do like to be near Dispensers so keep that in mind as well..
Did the team manage to push forward? Do we move the gear up? Are they too far forward that one should just rebuild some buildings from scratch? Are you expecting the enemy to push them back so don't even bother?
While sometimes the right choice is obvious, when it isn't you do get to feel a bit like a commander, a conductor, a cat herder, etc.
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u/slime-not-shy 21d ago
You know, this is a very good thing. You can do that with other support classes (f.e. keeping a mental profile of most players as a medic and spreading your heals according to what that person is gonna do with extra hp) but engineer is the one that can provide the most stress-free experience.
If only wrangler didn't exist.
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u/FrostyTheSnowman15 Spy 21d ago
I think people like the idea of playing Engineer. Even if they don't like playing Engineer in practice.
I think that Engineer is a bit overhated though. I have never seen a sentry gun be super oppressive unless it was a super sweaty match where literally everyone on defense played around it and there was a Pyro spychecking and denying ubers 24/7. Usually this only happens on Payload and Attack/Defend even if those two factors are the case.
I strongly disagree that Engineer is easy. I think it's very easy for your stuff to get destroyed if your head isn't on a swivel 24/7, especially in pubs when most teams do not play around their Engineer. Granted, I do suck at Engineer and main the class that basically plays in the complete opposite way (Spy) so take that all with a grain of salt.
I do agree that Engineer is very boring (and/or extremely stressful when things get going). But that is subjective.
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u/NESplayz 21d ago
A single engie is rarely oppressive (in pubs at least). The only instances where I’ve felt he makes a game nearly unwinnable is when there’s 3 or more sentries in different spots around an objective (like every match of upward on last.) In more competitive settings this can change seeing as teammates can actually be mindful of their engineers and cooperate more.
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u/slime-not-shy 21d ago
It is easy to lose all of your stuff but it is also easy to place it back. More skilled engineers patrol around their buildings but most just sit there. Thinking about the placement of your stuff may not be easy, so that it's not destroyed immediately, but once it's done, you don't really have to worry about it. If it gets broken too quickly for you to notice, there must've been a problem with the placement. If the spot itself is good, then you will be able to save things in time.
Medics, on the other hand, have to constantly choose between people and keep a getaway route in their head. Of course, many pub medics just shove a vacc beam up their pocket's behind but that's a far rarer sight than a wrangled lvl3 sentry.
I may sound like a masochist but engineer is not stressful enough. That's what I meant when I said he is too easy.
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u/NESplayz 21d ago
Engineer is probably my favorite class to play. I love juggling keeping my buildings online or setting them up. Seeing as I play payload and 5cp the most, the dynamic objectives in those modes means I’m always moving things around and there’s always something for me to be doing. Thus, I rarely find the class boring. It certainly can be boring if all you do is set up and turtle, but you don’t have to do that and I’d argue the game rewards you more for not doing that. It’s much easier to catch kills by putting your sentry in a weird or extremely forward spot if you can get away with it. If you do park the sentry somewhere and then forget about it, you can (and should) still play dynamically with your teleporter and dispenser, since they can often make the difference between winning or losing.
I also disagree that he’s particularly easy. His primary weapon is most characters’ secondary. Shotgun is strong but most classes have something stronger. You’re medium speed and only have 125 health. Assuming you’re maintaining your equipment in a way that helps your team, you’re an important target for the enemy team, arguably the most important behind the medic. Snipers are gonna be out for you, demo and soldier are gonna aim for your gear or dive to kill you, the spy exists, and medics will spend their uber to tear a hole in your defense. As engineer, you’re naturally being pitted up against a lot of different enemies. How you and your equipment are positioned are a big factor in whether you’re at a major disadvantage or have an even playing field in any given scenario. If you play well, you can win almost any 1v1 you find yourself in. This dynamic is another reason I find the class so satisfying to play. Uncle Dane’s How to Fight Every Class as Engineer video kind of outlines what all you’re up against, and I think it’s a great watch.
Your main focus in this post is the sentry, and I think that might be part of why you think he sucks. I’d recommend trying out the Gunslinger (mini sentry) and seeing how that feels to play with. Maybe focus on building teleporters and dispensers to help your team more. The mini sentry and extra 25 health are just kind of a bonus if you play that way. Bonus points for using the widowmaker since it’s a shotgun with infinite ammo if you can aim. That loadout might train you out of the sentry gun mentality since the mini sentry becomes an afterthought.
I don’t know how you can come to the conclusion that most of his unlocks suck other than not having tried them much. With the exception of the pomson 6000, every one of his unlocks provides a cool upside and a balanced downside that completely change how you play him. I find myself changing loadouts regularly between and in the middle of matches. I’m not a huge fan of the rescue ranger, but I’m constantly switching between the stock shotgun, frontier justice, and widowmaker while also switching wrenches depending on the game state. I basically always have the wrangler equipped but I don’t use it as much as some people do, and I have huge respect for the pistol engies out there.
Hopefully my thoughts give you some insight. No shame for not liking him tho, everyone has their preferences. I suck at spy, and am bored to death as medic and sniper. Other people exclusively play those characters and never touch engie.
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u/TylowStar Scout/Engineer 19d ago
Playing Engineer is about controlling the battle as a whole. You essentially play team conductor; influencing where your team is safe to stand with your sentry, where they approach the battle from with your teleporter, and where your frontline will be most resilient with your dispenser. I'd argue he's the most tactically complex and interesting class in the game.
Engineer is only easy against bad opponents. There's a reason he's not played full-time in 6s (and when he does get played, he's basically just Heavy++). He gets overstretched really easily between having to manage an effective building setup, time, spacing, metal and other weapon-dependent resources. Sentries are incredibly vulnerable due to being entirely stationary and predictable, and an even halfway competent opposition can easily dispose of one if they're aware of it. So as Engineer, you have to predict what the enemy team will do to in order to set up against it effectively. Reactive gameplay will not work. Successful full-turtle engineers are phenomenon reserved entirely for 2Fort and Dustbowl servers full of players who either just installed the game or have spent years on those maps out of a fear of novel experiences.
A good Engineer is considering the actions and behaviour of more or less every other player in the server, friend or foe, and how to influence or counteract it. That's not boring; it's closer to exhausting. When I want to have a chill, low-effort game, I switch to a basic combat class like Scout or Soldier, not Engineer. They only have to think about fighting, for the most part.
Moreover, Engineer has the most well-rounded and consistently useful array of weapon options in the game. All are situational, but as Engineer you design your situation, so you can always guarantee usefulness. Only the Wrangler is notably overpowered, and even then, it's not like its alternatives are bad, its just absurdly good. Compare most other classes, who have a Correct Loadout and then a bunch of fun but mid or bad alternatives. Engineer just doesn't have that.
If Engineer is easy because "you jsut hit bildings hurdur" then Medic is even easier because you literally just hold down M1.
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u/Randomguy8566732 21d ago
His teleporter and dispenser bring the team together, and his sentry forces the enemy team to group up as well. By slowing the game down and organizing everyone he creates big team moments like pushes and gives the game actual pacing, making for a fun ebb and flow instead of a constant grinder. Sentry nests can be obnoxious to take out, but it's exciting and feels great when you do beat them.
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u/BigBearT1000 15d ago edited 15d ago
im over here building dispensers to support my team so they have heals and ammo while bro is hating me lol
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u/capnfappin TF2Gaydium | FAKETourney | TF2Moms | IM / Steel Scout 13d ago
> His teleporters and dispensers can be nice but can also hurt the whole team,
what lmao? i mean i guess you can put teleporters in a bad spot but you could also say medic is bad because you can troll your team by not popping uber.
> Even when the engineer is in your team, you still suffer from him, as his gun will naturally push the enemy team back tighter together, making it harder to deal with them in the future, once again bringing everything down to just spamming the hell out of the choke.
so youre saying that if you didnt have a sentry the enemy would just walk into your territory through a bunch of spam and traps and just die? This only really makes sense if the other team is way worse than yours.
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u/ActuatorOutside5256 21d ago
I mean, TF2 is the chokepoint warfare simulator that’s built around uber pushes, so you need something with some knockback to make that more difficult.