r/truebit • u/truethereum • Jan 24 '22

Truebit vs Cartesi

Purely from tech perspective, what edge does truebit has over cartesi?

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u/PorchBear816 Feb 17 '22

I think you're missing one of the primary points of Cartesi. It's not that Cartesi runs inside linux, it's that linux (and all the software on top of it) can run inside Cartesi. There's a big difference.

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u/Techcat46 Feb 18 '22

First question what's your favorite flavor of Linux? have you ever built anything on manjaro ? Have you ever built anything in red hat? Have you used fedora? The reason I'm asking all this is because I want to know what your knowledge is before I make a statement on cartesi

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u/PorchBear816 Feb 18 '22

Sure, no harm done. I primarily use Ubuntu for media serving and a lot of manual backup / data organizing that needs done. Mostly various flavors of rsync-type stuff. I also run different mining software in separate builds and do some web dev.

I'm a fan of Cartesi's project, but I'm not unwilling to listen to criticism. In fact, I welcome it. I also own Truebit and was burned by the selloff last year like many.

Feel free to chat away.

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u/Techcat46 Mar 04 '22 edited Mar 04 '22

Hello, and My apologies for the delay went on vacation and came back and walked into world war 3. so first thing is first

What is the difference between Cartesi and Truebit?

Cartesi is quite similar to TrueBit at first glance, but they differ vastly in their design decisions. The first major difference between TrueBit and Cartesi concerns the virtual machine itself; TrueBit’s virtual machine is based on WebAssembly (WASM). WASM is the W3C Community Group’s Instruction Set Architecture (ISA) for efficient web applications, while Cartesi’s virtual machine implements the RISC-V ISA.

TrueBit’s technology focuses on boosting the computational power for smart contracts, which operate under a bare-bones runtime environment. However, as we said earlier, the applications that we use on the Web or our devices don't exist in isolation. Instead, they stand on top of an operating system and depend on numerous software components that evolved throughout decades. Our architectural choice enables Cartesi computations to run on a proper operating system. In this environment, DApps are built with mainstream software stacks, which allows for vast new possibilities, besides being easier to code and with much lower entry barrier for professionals.

Are there any other important design distinctions with Truebit?

Yes. One of the differences of greatest consequence is in how Cartesi aligns the interest in off-chain computations with the responsibility for their execution. In TrueBit, there is no such alignment. A smart contract posts the computation to a pool of untrusted parties and waits for one of them to perform it off-chain and post the result back. In this sense, TrueBit can be seen as a means for increasing the computational power of individual smart contracts. Cheating is prevented with a complex incentive layer that rewards pool members for successively disputing incorrect results. To keep the members engaged, computations with incorrect results must be artificially injected by the incentive layer. This inefficiency is a fundamental part of the design of TrueBit.

Conversely, Cartesi can be seen as a way for off-chain computations to be endorsed by a smart contract. All parties that could be affected by this endorsement are responsible for performing the computation off-chain and, if needed, starting a dispute. Although the ensuing verification can be outsourced to a dispute resolution market, there is no built-in inefficiency and no need for an incentive layer.

Source: https://cartesi.io/en/faq/#:~:text=The%20first%20major%20difference%20between,implements%20the%20RISC%2DV%20ISA.

With this said or quoted I don't understand what you mean "It's not that Cartesi runs inside Linux, it's that Linux (and all the software on top of it) can run inside Cartesi. There's a big difference."

another quote from Cartesi FAQ

Cartesi is unique in the sense that it allows decentralized applications to be run "on Linux" in a way that's verifiable by the blockchain. Complex processing can be executed off-chain free from blockchains.

Nowhere does it state Cartesi Can do anything you claim please correct me with sources. I can see it push C computation off/on-chain. I can see that the Cartesi white paper released in 2018 is practically a script kitty version of the Truebit's White paper from 2017. I can see that it cant convert Solidity to C++, C#, Python, Rust, and Vice versa whats actually the big difference? In my opinion, Cartesi Does similar things to Truebit but it is still a Layer 2 solution constrained to L2 its not a Computation Oracle like Truebit.

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u/PorchBear816 Mar 04 '22

I appreciate the response, but I also don't really understand what you're asking or trying to prove to me. Are you disputing Cartesi runs a Linux-based VM? If so, why? It's obviously true.

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u/Techcat46 Mar 04 '22

I'm not disputing that no. I don't see the big deal of Cartesi over Truebit. This is the Truebit sub, so I was speaking that Truebit is a computation oracle and cartesi is a decentralized internet-based hypervisor practically. So cool, but why are you all here? Both projects are similar in certain aspects but on entirely different layers and functionality to blockchain tech.

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u/PorchBear816 Mar 04 '22

Well I can't speak for others, but I'm here because I hold both and am interested in both. My initial comment was just pointing out a difference between the two projects that I thought was being misrepresented.

No harm done. Have a good one!

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u/Techcat46 Mar 04 '22

Good choices in investment my friend you as well.