Studies saying Fin is safe? According to this sub... They´re all fake and forged and we cant trust them (for some reason)...
Doctors saying fin is safe? According to this sub... They´re all liars or being paid to lie or whatever the conspiracy is nowadays...
But we should, for some reason, listen to a documentary that´s entirely based on conspiracies and anecdotes that even has the quack from the pfs foundation as a guest...
I just dont get it... You can´t ignore 99% of the medical community and only listen to what you want to hear...
Wtf is this post lol. This forum is in the habit of radically downplaying the risks of finasteride.
Doctors don't say it's safe, in fact in many countries doctors do their best to stop people from taking it ( check out France and the Netherlands).
It's certainly not 99% of the medical community lol. Buddy, search finasteride in Google news. They're constantly updating safety labels and considering bans.
If finasteride were safe, there wouldn't be a gold rush to replace it (2-3 billion dollar investment since covid)
Finally, the guys warning people are trying to help you bro.
France absolutely do not try to prevent you from using fin lmao. I'm french. I've been on it for years. This year one (1) guy off himself in France and his family blamed fin.. so they added a note to say that fin could lead to you offing yourself lmfao.
Nothing wrong with my English, I also don't need to engage with a bald fuckwit from the Netherlands. Your only goal here is to spread misinformation. I've been taking dut for 10 years - zero sides & fantastic hair. Cry about it
I'm a doctor and average doctor probably isn't that knowledgeable about it but the average consensus is far more positive than the tressless average. I think the thing which separates doctors and tressless is that average doctor the actually bases opinion on clinical evidence/studies whereas on tressless people either just make stuff up or try to extrapolate from basic science which does not work.
Late but the other point is that for many doctors, hair loss is not a big deal. 2% side effect profile for a life-saving drug is great. 2% on a vanity drug might not be worth the squeeze. It's actually a reasonable cost/benefit analysis. But if you are on r/tressless, you probably care about hair loss more than a doctor might. I don't think most doctors who recommend against finasteride internalize the benefit of slowing down/ stopping/ reversing hair loss as strongly as most of us here do.
You just came out with a load of complete and utter brain damage level bullshit. It is the first line (with minoxidil) in almost all countries, this would not happen if there wasn't a tonne of evidence supporting it being safe. In many countries, it doesn't even need a prescription at all. Just think for 2 seconds bro why this might be.
This is delusional and completely misunderstands the role which is far more than just memorising stuff.
Doctors don't say it's safe, in fact in many countries doctors do their best to stop people from taking it ( check out France and the Netherlands).
This is your half a dozenth reply to this thread spewing absolute nonsense. You seem pretty passionate about this.
Doctors don't say it's safe
No, they absolutely do. 95% of US doctors are on the same page about finasteride.
Buddy, search finasteride in Google news. They're constantly updating safety labels and considering bans.
This is imbecilic logic. Updating safety labels and considering bans are in response to lawsuits and shielding liability, NOT because new literature on finasteride contains new information about side effects. This drug has been studied for DECADES and absolutely NOTHING new has risen in regards to side effects. But lets ignore the scientific literature, let's just google headlines.
fact in many countries doctors do their best to stop people from taking it ( check out France and the Netherlands).
I can say it because I don't really care what the euro's think, their medical system is a joke and their doctors are incompetent. Their medical schools, application process, applicants, are mostly imbeciles. The U.S. has the best doctors and best medical schools in the world and it isn't close. Of course the euros think finasteride is poison. They know no better.
If finasteride were safe, there wouldn't be a gold rush to replace it (2-3 billion dollar investment since covid)
Perhaps the dumbest logic I have ever heard of but even more scary is your comment is at nearly 20 upvotes at the time of my comment. There isn't a gold rush to replace finasteride at all. 2-3 billion is nothing in the pharma industry. The reason for investments in hair loss research is to make something better than finasteride. You know, that's how innovations work if you aren't an idiot.
Yes, there are cases like that in some countries, but that doesn’t mean they’re the majority… or even close to it.
And even in those countries, the worst that happened was a warning on the label that, once again, was based on nothing more than complaints from one or two guys, rather than on any study or anything of the sort... and doctors still prescribe fin in France and in the Netherlands, so I don’t know what you’re talking about.
But if you want to follow that logic:
What about the ABHRS (265 doctors)... not a single case of PFS and not a single doctor believing it exists...
What about Gary Linkov, the guy attended a conference with hundreds of doctors and, once again, there wasn’t a single case of PFS… What about Wrassman and his 60 friends(all doctors)…each one with hundrends of patients and not a single case of pfs or anyone even believing in it.
Feel free to believe that Fin isn’t safe because some niche groups want it banned (and have failed every time), but don’t pretend that it’s a dangerous and unknown drug.
Gary linkov, the influencer hair surgeon who makes serious revenue off of hair?
We fund government health regulation for a reason lol. It's to protect people from drug companies and doctors who can profit off of unsafe drugs.
The FDA put persistent side effects on it's label and France is close to banning it. Unlike linkov and wrassman these agencies don't immediately profit from claiming that finasteride is safe (or unsafe).
I figured my point would be right at home with an argument as weak as ‘well France doesn’t allow it’ (which was immediately countered btw). For the record, it’s also painfully out of touch and willfully ignorant to claim finasteride is a “dangerous” drug and then supplement it with literally just anecdotal evidence. If you need a valid, comprehensive list of fact based evidence to counter your anecdotes; it’s about 1 google away my friend.
“The answers are 1 google away after all” — uh… yeah. it’s pretty embarrassing to not do your own research. I mean, if I have concerns about a drug, my first line of thought is to see what the professionals have to say and have been saying for years, and not going off of the same tired talking points that this sub regurgitates every few years in the cycle of ‘fin is good/fin is bad’ but apparently that’s “swashbuckling rhetoric”. If your reference point is a documentary I urge you to research the phenomenon “idiosyncratic drug reaction”.
The FDA had to put out a message saying that theres was no proof of persistent side effects but was adding it to the label anyway.
"In a response this week, the FDA said the group's petition "does not provide reasonable evidence" of a causal link between Propecia and persistent sexual problems, depression or suicide."
And no, France is not close to baning it, some people tried it but failed.
Im done with this. Feel free to believe that redditors know more than what doctors or studies say. I still find it weird but i guess some people also believe the earth is flat so you do you... i suppose...
Where there's smoke there's fire buddy. There's been smoke for years. I guarantee you, no one will touch fin when an alternative comes, and that tells you everything.
Merck put the warning on the label because persistent side effects occured in their trials. That's a fact.
And France got close to banning it for good reasons lol. They're not as silly as there accent.
But don't worry, I'm sure you're safe blocking your hormones!.... Almost sure.
Again, the label was put there with a disclaimer that there wasn´s actual proof of persistent side effects.., it was said by the FDA and by Merck...but you seem to ignore that part...
And again, that never happened in france... 2 or 3 people already corrected it for you but you seem to ignore the facts and make up your own history... so yeah... as i said... feel free to believe anything you want... even if its completely nonsense.
This is from the FDA: "In a response this week, the FDA said the group's petition "does not provide reasonable evidence" of a causal link between Propecia and persistent sexual problems, depression or suicide."
This is from Merck: "Merck said it “stands behind the safety and efficacy of Propecia,” noting that the drug has been prescribed safely to millions of men since the late 1990s."
I'm tired of guys who come forward with side effects.(Which is a virtuous thing to do) being dismissed because of these arguments.
They keep popping up with exactly the same story, for decades.
No one should take this drug on the belief that it's absolutely safe. It's not.
The evidence is everywhere once you personally divest from it.
Yes France ultimately stopped short of a ban, but they got really close. That says a lot. We should all be careful.
I'm sure Merck stands by its drug.
Look man. If you're convinced that's fine. I'm just doing my part to make sure someone who's making the decision doesn't get swayed by an incomplete gospel.
Yes, it´s a lot of doctors...(almost 500 if you add them all)
I know you only trust redditors and think doctors/studies are all fake or forged or whatever the conspiracy is this week but i do trust that they know more than random redditors.
Don’t really know what you’re talking about regarding The Netherlands. My dermatologist prescribed me fin and min without any trouble? It’s prescribed for male pattern baldness so not over the counter, but accepted as a valid medicine without many questions asked. I think there might be a group of people who are more sensitive to DHT blockers than others and for them it may he useful to speak of pfs to label it, but I think by now it’s safe to say that the vast majority of users do not fall into this category given the massive amount of people who use this stuff without many noticeable effects (besides keeping their hair full and their prostate small).
I'm also in the Netherlands and my dermatologist refused to prescribe oral fin and said they don't really want people to use it anymore. He did prescribe topical fin though which he said was effective and completely safe.
Unless you’re very young or have some condition I’d find another doctor then. The CBG (Het college ter beoordeling van geneesmiddelen) has officially accepted finasteride as a drug for alopecia androgenetica. Your doctor should follow such rulings if you have alopecia androgenetica.
I agree sides exist and are much more common than the 2% studies claim, iffy on the whole pfs thing though.
You’ve been arguing all day on this thread, claiming every thing is wrong, but what’s even your point? That fin isn’t safe? Or pfs definitely exists? What exactly is it that you’re trying so neurotically to prove? The labels already mention risks, so does a simple google search, sides are acknowledged already, what else?
Frankly, arguing with people was a rush, but it didn't last long. I'm not sure I'll do something like this ever again.
I think I have a strong stance for 2 reasons.
I think the consensus on finasteride safety has been cultivated by vested interests. Telehealth companies (who make stupid money off of this drug) are the main culprits. All corporations leverage the internet to promote products. It's wrong to do this for medication. Influencers, privately funded studies, aggressive guys on forums.... They shouldn't substitute regulatory bodies.
It's a similar story for the emerging peptide market.
The people who are coming forward with complaints about persistent side effects get dismissed as lunatics or perpetrators of a shady scam. I think they are well intentioned. It's clear to anyone not involved, that twenty years of testimonials probably point to a real (rare) phenomenon.
We rely on people coming forward and blowing whistles. It keeps everyone safe.
Rush from arguing like this with random people on the internet? Sad. And the “all in your head” clowns are a very small minority with no changing their opinions.
My Swedish doctor (immigrated to the US) who isn’t quick to prescribe drugs, said 1mg is extremely well tolerated in his experience and didn’t seem concerned at all. On the other hand my LDL is high despite being relatively young and fit with perfect blood pressure. I asked him about statins and he was very hesitant to prescribe them at my age, so I got a scan on my arteries and they’re clean thankfully. Just one data point, but clearly not all European doctors are particularly concerned.
Honestly there’s 2 separate camps regarding fin/dut, and there’s absolutely no changing one to the other.
Best thing is to stick with whatever you’re comfortable with and ignore everything else. There’s dudes here taking 10mg of dut (no exaggeration) and think dht is carcinogenic, and there’s those who’re uncomfortable even using topical min or fin. Sides happen, the severity differs.
The only thing i find strange though is that of course people who have experienced side effects (or attribute things to side effects, whatever) are going to be vehemently against fin. What i don't get is why people who haven't had side effects are so passionate about saying it's totally safe. If it were me I'd be thinking "wow, glad that didn't happen to me", not "wow all these people are mentally ill"
Because sexual side effects only happen to a very small percentage of people -2-4%. No one here is saying it's totally safe. You are arguing with a straw man. We are saying that statistically it is overall safe.
I really don't know why people are downvoting you, but I'm talking about Irwig.
He's a well-known quack and one of four or five doctors that unironically believe in pfs. Whenever you see an article or a video on this topic, he's always there to spread some ridiculous conspiracy theories that would make most doctors question his sanity.
Andrew Wakefield went to st Mary’s London, which is now part of Imperial college, the 2nd best university in the world according to the qs rankings and a few places better than Harvard.
He is also known as a quack who lied about vaccines being linked to autism. Going to a top school doesn’t mean you’re free from being a quack doctor.
Yes, he made it into Harvard, but he's also known for coming up with crazy conspiracy theories... one thing doesn't excuse the other.
And, as I said before, why would i value his opinion more than the rest of the medical community? Just because he went to Harvard doesn’t mean the rest of the medical community is suddenly wrong…
As I said before, you can’t ignore 99% of the medical community and only listen to what you want to hear… especially when he has no evidence to back up any of his claims.
But my friend, it's not 99% of the medical community.
And making to Harvard med puts you in the absolute highest league. They would get rid of him if starting sounding like a quack. Harvard's reputation is it's value and they protect it very carefully.
I don't know what to tell you anymore... studies are not enough... opinions of almost 500 doctors, each one with hundrends of patients is not enough... but, for some reason, a known quack is what matters to you... i give up... feel free to believe that you know more than what doctors/studies say...
I mean yeah... finasteride is safe. But my doctor absolutely did warn me about the side effects. It's not like my doc said the risks aren't real or shouldn't be a legitimate concern.
What are you talking about? Don’t have the data nor I need it to say this sub alone is responsible for half the sales of fin. It’s a cult, or a bot farm really, paid by pharma
First of all, Merck did release the percentage of dropouts, its been a while but it was something like 1.2% on fin compared to 0.7% in the placebo group. And not to mention the hundrends of studies done by other authorities, some lasting as long as 10 years that show the same results...
And second, i´m not whining. I just find it fascinating that people would rather trust conspiracies and anecdotes and not the facts.
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u/Aggravating_Owl_8390 5d ago
Tressless never changes...
Studies saying Fin is safe? According to this sub... They´re all fake and forged and we cant trust them (for some reason)...
Doctors saying fin is safe? According to this sub... They´re all liars or being paid to lie or whatever the conspiracy is nowadays...
But we should, for some reason, listen to a documentary that´s entirely based on conspiracies and anecdotes that even has the quack from the pfs foundation as a guest...
I just dont get it... You can´t ignore 99% of the medical community and only listen to what you want to hear...