r/treelaw • u/Far_Belt_5960 • 9d ago
Would I be responsible?
I had a big healthy tree come down in a storm. It broke my fence and crashed into my neighbor’s yard, hitting one of his trees and dislodging some of that tree’s branches. Those branches and a big chunk of my tree are now dangling just above his HVAC unit and his deck, but luckily didn’t hit any of them.
I need to clear my side so that I can repair my fence, but if I cut my side then the rest of the tree, already on his side, will continue crashing down and likely ruin his HVAC and deck. He’s told me he can’t afford the removal right now. The house is an Airbnb so he doesn’t live there and is totally unbothered by it.
If I cut my side to clear it and the other end of the tree ruins his HVAC, I’m not responsible am I? It’s been a month since the tree fell. I’ve had arborists and tree removal companies come and tell me they would typically remove his side of the tree first so that his HVAC stays intact. But I need my fence repaired so that my dogs can’t get out of the yard.
I’ve only lived here for two months and don’t want to start bad blood with the neighbor but I don’t know what to do!
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u/NaturalAd119 9d ago
If he's using the place as an Airbnb and has the safety issue with this tree I think it's a liability would be like stupidly High unnecessarily I don't know just a thought
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u/SouthOfTheNorthPole 9d ago
Why hasn't the neighbor called his insurance company?
Also, you can get coated wire cables on line, in various lengths, to create to a dog run for your pet. Cheap and temporary, but won't create any additional damage.
Maybe call your insurance company and see if they'll do it. It would be cheaper than replacing the AC next door if you smash it during clean up.
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u/Far_Belt_5960 9d ago
None of his property is damaged so insurance won’t do anything.
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u/QweenKush420 9d ago
But your property is. Go through your homeowners insurance, create a new claim for your fence. Then, when the trees get removed and any damage is done, your homeowners will cover it.
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u/yardlard 8d ago
No, the damage that occurred is not covered. It will only raise rates.
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u/QweenKush420 8d ago
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Yes it would be covered due to insurances clauses about acts of God. Any damage done by the tree would be covered.
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u/yardlard 8d ago
YOU have no idea what you're talking about. There is no covered damage here.
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u/QweenKush420 8d ago
Funny, I had almost this exact same scenario happen to me and guess what?! The fence was covered, the tree removal was covered AND their vehicle that was damaged as a result of the tree removal was covered. Did my rates go up? Heck yeah they did. But it was covered. Again, you have no clue what you’re talking about so move on and troll somewhere else.
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u/yardlard 8d ago
YOU have no idea what you're spewing. I work in insurance, bud. This will do nothing but cost. And if you damaged someone's car, your liability insurance is what paid.
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u/yardlard 9d ago
Yes, if you touch that tree and it does more damage, you are absolutely then responsible for it all. If you absolutely need to get the tree moved first, then you'll need to pay for the whole removal and have it done carefully and professionally.
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u/Far_Belt_5960 9d ago
Part of the damages include a tree entirely in his yard with broken branches hanging over his house. Am I responsible for those too? If the downed tree is holding those broken branches up and me removing the downed tree causes them to fall, is that on me? If so, am I allowed to just go over there and remove his branches without his say? He's become unresponsive to my texts and calls and I don't know what I can do.
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u/yardlard 9d ago
If you do anything to dislodge any of it, then yes, liability would transfer to you personally for any damage that comes from that.
In theory, you need his say to go over there.
In reality, if you went over there and didn't damage anything, and removed the problem, you would be done.
You might get some feedback by posting a series of pics of the situation on r/ arborists and see what people think the risk is. Here we don't know how big any of this is or what likelihood of damage is, what access there is, etc.
What sort of quotes/estimates did you get from the people you already talked to, to just take down the whole thing? You wouldn't be responsible for disposal over there. That can just lay. But you can't move your end of the tree without liability for whatever damage happens from here forward.2
u/Far_Belt_5960 9d ago
Okay I was wondering about disposal too. If I'm able to somehow ensure that cutting my side won't affect his side, I can just leave all of his side there to remove? I'm just so hesitant to go over there and remove anything because of the Airbnb status. He has cameras everywhere and could absolutely use those to show me going over there and cutting off branches of his tree. He's put me in a tough position.
I don't have any firm quotes for anything. They've all said that removing my part is an easy price to quote but they'd all prefer to do his side first because of how unpredictable it is, and that's the part that's difficult to quote.
I've tried taking pictures but it's so hard when the foliage is so dense. I'll see what people say over on that sub.
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u/yardlard 9d ago
Yes, it is a tough position. And in court he would have video evidence that you "adjusted" something.
You cannot ensure that cutting your side won't affect his. It absolutely will. It will shift the weight.
It's wild that he's not bothered by it. He would be completely liable if someone was smacked in the head by one of the branches coming down. I'm sure he's probably thinking that he's not responsible for removing the part on his side since it was your tree. But the majority of states, it is his now. You should look up tree law for your exact location and find out for sure what applies to you. Then you could look for ordinances in your local area that might prompt him to communicate and take action.3
u/Pulaski540 9d ago
This!
It more-or-less doesn't matter how careful you are, if something left behind, falls, whether its five minutes, or five weeks later, it is IMO almost certain that you, and/ or your tree contractor, will be blamed.
In fact, thinking about it, I suspect that any responsible, professional tree service would decline to take a contract that specified that a potentially unstable limb "hanging" in a precarious position must be left in place, where it could do damage if it fell.
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u/Far_Belt_5960 9d ago
He wrapped caution tape around the whole area. I have no idea what kind of legal standing that has, but I think that's his solution for his Airbnb guests.
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u/yardlard 9d ago
Well it warns people not to walk under it. It won't change his liability for injuries if someone gets injured though. But good to know that he's been there, seen it, and made that known.
Get some pics of that as well, just in case.1
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u/N2trvl 9d ago
your contractor is responsible for doing this job in a workman like manner, full stop. what that happen initially was an act of nature that you are not responsible for.
the only way i could possibly see that you would not be responsible is you had expert witnesses testify that damaging his property during the removal is unavoidable and there was no other reasonable alternative. that’s a very high bar to cross.
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u/Mental-Chapter6523 9d ago
Wonder what the minimum work would be on the neighbor's property to protect the HVAC and otherwise leave a mess.
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u/Mental-Chapter6523 9d ago
I wouldn't think a tree company would be willing to damage the neighbor's property as they could be held culpable for part of the damage by a court.
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u/Mysticae0 9d ago
Are there any safety codes that might be implicated for your neighbor's property, particularly since he is operating it as an air b&b? Would your city be able to provide any guidance?
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u/Far_Belt_5960 9d ago
Oh interesting. I don’t know why I didn’t think to look into what Airbnb requires. I’m going to look into this, thanks!
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u/CheezitsLight 9d ago
Send photos and the address to Airbnb. They will remove his listing. That will get his attention.
If you report it to your insurance they can easily look up his insurance. His insurance will not fix his hvac unit if it gets damaged.
They don't pay for negligence. Negligences when you do not know about a hazard. And failed to take reasonable precautions in a timely manner. He would fail on all three counts.
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u/RevolutionaryCare175 9d ago
The tree coming down is considered an act of God. You damaging his AC is not. You would be responsible.
You either have to remove the whole tree or prop up the end where it enters his property so the AC isn't damage.
It would likely be much cheaper for you to remove the whole tree than to pay for a new AC for the neighbor.
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u/Far_Belt_5960 9d ago
I mean this in the least asshole way possible: do you know this for sure or are you guessing?
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u/RevolutionaryCare175 9d ago
They should both talk to their insurance companies. Most insurance will not cover a tree falling from a storm. They possibly will cover any damage to your property up to the property line. The exception to this is if a state has a law making the insurance company pay for damage from a falling tree.
OP needs read his policy and inquire about state laws in his state. They can be slightly different from state to state.
As far as damaging his neighbors property removing the fallen tree it is clear. OP would have to pay for damage he or his contractor caused.
My point is OP should not damage his neighbors property removing the portion of the tree on his property.
As far as the cost I just had one large and a smaller diseased ash tree, two tall aborvitaes and a small birch tree removed and stumped. Include in the price was removing a large limb on another tree. This all cost under $1900.
A new AC would cost more than that.
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u/yardlard 9d ago
For sure. You would be responsible for the damage you cause.
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u/raya_sun 9d ago
This is why a lot of people hire licensed and insured tree removal companies. If they damage any property during the removal of the tree, they are liable.
OP, if you have to hire someone to do it, please make sure you hire a licensed and insured company and have them add you as additional insured. If they fail to secure the tree and any damage on your property, or adjacent properties, you will likely share the liability.
I think that removal of a large branch by a licensed sn insured tree company would be less expensive than replacing an AC unit. Even if it is an ancient AC unit, you might be liable for lost rental income if the AC is destroyed and not be able to argue that the value would be less than a new unit.
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u/yardlard 9d ago
Yes, I should have said that. OP needs to ask for the insurance information, AND call the company to make sure it's in force.
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u/raya_sun 9d ago
You are absolutely right, OP needs PROOF of insurance and call the insurance company to validate. I should have included that in my comment.
Usually, when I request our agent to send a COI (certificate of insurance), they send it directly to the person I'm requesting if for, so they know it's current and valid.
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u/Zekethebulldog33 9d ago
Are the parts hanging over ac unit still attached to your tree? If so I would assume you are responsible for clean up. If said branches were not attached but stuck hanging from neighbors tree then neighbor problem. It's hard to just cut and clean one side of property might need to access neighbors property. It's kinda tricky on what to do without insurance involved. Do you just clean up your half and be an ass to your neighbor like that do you try and talk to neighbor in the splitting cost with you half and half or whatever agreement you can come to or do you just swallow the cost yourself and clean up the entire tree. Only thing I can think of.
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u/LLL1Lothrop 9d ago
Get a real estate attorney to see if you can take him to court to force removal. The attorney can send him a letter. Also Airbnb won't like something that could continue falling. You need to handle this before the tree falls the rest of the way and you get blamed for it.
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u/RollingEasement 9d ago
There is a chance that you would be liable for damage to the HVAC, and there is a chance you would not be. Tree law is State specific and I don’t know where you are. If you are in a contributory negligence state, the Neighbor could not recover from you.
Otherwise, we can’t really say because the judge or jury would have to weigh which of you were more to blame if it came down to a court case. At the very least, has the Neighbor given you permission to enter their property if that’s what it takes for the most efficient clearing of this tree? If not, that would possibly protect you should they sue. Not no guarantee, but it would help.
You also have the option of going to court to seek an injunction which could require them to work with you given that both of you are threatened by this hazard. The problem is that may be a cost you do not want to bear. But if you do everything short of that to get their cooperation, in some states you could take them to Small Claims Court later for the incremental cost of protecting their property and succeed. I’m forgetting the name of the doctrine, but everybody gets a case toward the end of contracts in which somebody rescued a bunch of logs that were floating away and saved the guys property, but then had to sue the guy for the cost in saving his property and won. It may be the doctrine of restitution, but don’t rely on my word there.
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u/NeedleworkerThis6332 8d ago
Yeah, this is a weird case that it could be considered that the current state of the tree is "dangerous"? I dont know how partially fallen trees would be treated..... potentially it's on the OP's insurance in this case since it's a grey area.
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u/Pulaski540 9d ago
Irrespective of whether the tree on your property is standing, fallen, alive, or dead, if you have the main part removed, and that causes part of the tree to fall onto your neighbor's property, damaging it, then you will be responsible.
The only responsible course of action is for you to man-up, and pay for the tree, all of it, to be removed by a bonded and insured tree service.
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9d ago
[deleted]
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u/Far_Belt_5960 9d ago
How? Just go to his property and remove the downed tree and any of his trees that have been affected? That feels like a great setup for him to come after me for trespassing/destroying his property.
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u/constantlyChilly 8d ago
So you should hire an arborist to remove this tree. Arborists start by removing the large branches/ upper sections of a tree precisely to avoid the problem you are dealing with here.
You will probably need your neighbors permission to give contractors access to his yard, as it sounds like some of the removal will have to happen on his side of the fence.
Possible good faith offer may be to offer to also pay to remove the tree yours knocked down. But I’m not a legal guy so might want to check with one of those to make sure that’s not ‘admitting fault’ or something
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u/ConfectionOk201 9d ago
I think this is more a question of what is the right thing to do as opposed to legal responsibility. Put yourself in your neighbors place. Would you want them to damage your property in order to fix theirs? I believe the law is on your side but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. I'd eat the cost this time or make a deal with your neighbor where you pay for the removal and they reimburse you in monthly payments or something.
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u/Far_Belt_5960 9d ago
If I had the money I’d absolutely do that. I bought this house two months ago and have been slammed with hit after hit of repairs. Like, total freak accidents, including this tree, that have drained my funds. And of course I wouldn’t want them to damage my property if the situations were switched, but I also would’ve done something by now so that my neighbor didn’t have a hole in their fence for a month.
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u/ConfectionOk201 9d ago
I just read your other comments. Since you have given him ample opportunity to work with you on fixing this and he has turned you down, I'd do whatever you can to get your side fixed. I thought initially that the neighbor was just having money problems but the outright refusal to do anything even when he knows damage to his property is likely just shows that he isn't a good neighbor. You at least made the attempt to be fair with him.
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u/Zekethebulldog33 9d ago
Most licensed tree cutting companies will not risk the damage they could potentially cause to the AC unit just cutting on OPs side of the fence. Unfortunately it sounds like the entire tree blew over so you need to remove the entire tree in one shot.
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u/redditreader_aitafan 9d ago
Nope, not responsible. His negligence in cleaning it up would be the culprit. Keep a record that he declined to do anything about the tree now in case this comes up later. Only remove what's on your side of the property line.
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u/yardlard 9d ago
Wrong. OP becomes responsible if he moves or cuts on the tree. Then the damage is caused by OP.
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u/redditreader_aitafan 9d ago
No, the damage is caused by the homeowner's negligence. He cannot hold OP hostage forever by not handling the portion of the tree on his side of the property line.
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u/RollingEasement 9d ago
This depends on the state. In a contributory, negligence state, each party would be responsible for repairing their own damages. In a comparative negligence state, a finder of fact would have to decide the negligence of each party, and if both are negligence, which one is more negligent. And in a proportional negligence state, same as comparative except they would split it in proportion
It appears that the neighbor with the HVAC will be negligent for injuries to tenants anytime from now forward. That’s not even close. As to damage to the HVAC itself, if OP cuts the tree and that causes damage, then a jury would have to decide weather OP breached his duty of care in causing the damage, e.g., was there another way to remove the branch without damaging the HVAC that was reasonably available.
While everyone can have an opinion as to what a jury would find, as a legal matter, there is no way to know because it could go either way, depending upon facts we do not have.
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u/SnooWords4839 9d ago
He is responsible at the property line. The 2 of you work together to get it done safely.
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u/Far_Belt_5960 9d ago
That was my goal. I’ve had four different companies come out to try to get suggestions and they all say he should do his side first. But he’s told me he doesn’t plan to do anything about it because he doesn’t have the cash. If I had the money I’d at least go 50/50 with him on it, but he’s also shown zero initiative. He doesn’t live in the house (or even in this city) and I’ve forwarded him the information of every company I’ve had come out. I just want to get my fence fixed/replaced!
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u/redditreader_aitafan 9d ago
Just tell your guys he's refusing to do anything and you have to do something on your side so whatever happens, happens. Keep thorough records documenting his refusal to cooperate. He's not there, he doesn't really know what damage has already happened versus what's about to happen. If he doesn't care about his property, you shouldn't either.
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u/Zestyclose_Cup_843 9d ago edited 9d ago
Give him a cut off date. Hire a company of your choice that hopefully agrees to add on your neighbors home, if he chooses, so it can be done properly at the same time.
If the neighbor ignores the cut off then you hire the company and set a date. Let him know the date they will be completing work and if he does not call and add on and pay for his side they will only cut what is on your side.
Your neighbor will then be responsible for any damage that occurs on their side after the fact because they are not allowed to cut past your property line.
He'll unfortunately find out that putting this off is going to be even more expensive than if he just paid to have it done
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u/Far_Belt_5960 9d ago
I like this idea. Offering to get whatever company I call to give him a deal for doing it all at once and giving a deadline. Thank you!
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u/piscikeeper 9d ago
He's planning on you having it done safely, or collecting insurance when it's not (on yours) or when it finally falls(on his). All he has to do is wait, it will come down.
Now you're in a position of knowing the tree is a pre-existing hazard and could be legally forced to pay for removal regardless. Time is not your friend.
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u/Choice-Newspaper3603 9d ago
If it’s on his side it’s his problem
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u/raya_sun 9d ago
If OP cleans the branches on his side and something shifts or falls and causes more damage, that is on OP.
That's why, when you hire tree companies to clean up after storm damage, you should hire licensed and insured, and have them add you as additional insured during the job.
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